Hi everyone

I already did a post regarding camshafts for my 355 built. I'm almost off to the states. Will buy a roller cam + lifter kit when on the trip.
I was looking into the Howards brand of cams.
I've heard good things about Howards but is it better than the Comp cams kit?

What about the quality of cam + lifters?

Side note: 355 for PERFORMANCE STREET use combo with Th350 and 3.08 gears. Compression will be around 9.8-10:1. Stock torque converter can be replaced (options are open).

Option A). COMP Cams Xtr. Energy Retrofit CL12-412-8 cam and lifter kit
212/218 - Lobe sep. 110
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...make/chevrolet

Option B). Howards Cams Retrofit CL110235-12 cam and lifter kit
213/217 - Lobe sep. 112
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...make/chevrolet

Option C).Howards Cams Retrofit CL113215-10 cam and lifter kit
217/225 - Lobe sep. 110
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...make/chevrolet

I am totally not sure about the 217/225 because of the 3.08 gears and TH350 with stock converter.
The operathing range is 1300-5500 and it says 'Good idle, street performance, strong lower to midrange. Stock converter OK.'

The 213/217 has an operathing range from 1000-5000 and it says 'Good idle, off-road and street performance. 9.0:1 compression ratio advised.'

The first one will give me more power in the beginning/lower (RPM's) and the second one later/higher (RPM's).
But when I go on the highway and wan't to go all-out (WOT), which one will do better while at the same day remain nice to drive on regular streets (with lots of small corners/bends) and remain 'torquey'?

What are your thoughts?

 

My initial review of your post is, a tough call. Similar profiles. I have a retro roller recommended by Chris Straub with Morel lifters. All works great with my set up. You could call him for a professional opinion and cam recommendation from his inventory.

But for fun, let’s use AI. Took your post and put it into Gemini Pro. Here is the response. Let’s see how it compares with the opinions I hope follows from our knowledgeable forum members. Cheers.

From AI

This is a classic small block Chevy dilemma, and you have a great foundation for a punchy street C3. When you are working with a TH350 and 3.08 gears, you have to be very careful not to over-cam the engine. 3.08s are "long" highway gears; they take a moment to get the car moving, meaning your engine needs to make torque immediately off idle to feel responsive on tight, twisty streets.

Here is a breakdown of the quality differences and how these three options will behave with your specific combination.

Howards vs. COMP Cams Quality

Both are reputable brands, but right now, Howards Cams has a slight edge in the engine-building community, specifically regarding their lifters. * COMP Cams: They are the industry giant. Their Xtreme Energy lobe profiles are fantastic and proven to build massive torque. However, because of their massive volume, they source parts from various suppliers.

• Howards Cams: Howards is highly respected for using high-quality, American-made billet steel cores. More importantly, their hydraulic roller lifters are typically manufactured by Morel. Morel makes some of the absolute best, most reliable lifters on the market. If you want peace of mind regarding lifter quality right out of the box, Howards is the safer bet.

The Compression Factor (9.8 - 10:1)

Your compression ratio is actually quite high for a street 355. This is a critical factor.

When you pair high static compression (10:1) with a "small" camshaft (short duration), the intake valve closes very early in the compression stroke. This builds a massive amount of cylinder pressure—known as Dynamic Compression Ratio (DCR).

If your DCR gets too high, the engine will ping and detonate on pump gas. A slightly larger camshaft (more duration) leaves the intake valve open just a fraction of a second longer, bleeding off a little bit of that low-RPM pressure and making a 10:1 engine much happier on 91 or 93 octane.

Option Breakdown

Option A) COMP Cams (212/218 @ .050, 110 LSA)

• The Vibe: Punchy and aggressive off the line. The tight 110 LSA gives it a choppy, old-school muscle car idle.

• The Catch: With 10:1 compression, this short 212 intake duration might build too much low-end cylinder pressure. You would absolutely need premium fuel and careful ignition timing. It will run out of breath on the highway earlier than the others.

Option B) Howards Cams (213/217 @ .050, 112 LSA)

• The Vibe: The smoothest and most street-friendly of the bunch. The wider 112 Lobe Separation Angle (LSA) broadens the torque curve and creates a smoother idle with excellent vacuum for your power brakes and headlights.

• The Catch: It’s a very safe, mild cam. It will behave beautifully with your 3.08 gears and stock converter, pulling nicely out of corners, but it won't be a screaming demon at Wide Open Throttle (WOT) on the highway.

Option C) Howards Cams (217/225 @ .050, 110 LSA)

• The Vibe: This is the best cam for highway WOT. It has the most duration, meaning it will pull the hardest from 3,000 to 5,500 RPM. Furthermore, the 217 intake duration is the best match for your 9.8-10:1 compression ratio, helping to bleed off just enough pressure to avoid detonation.

• The Catch: Because of the 3.08 gears, this cam will feel slightly "lazy" right off idle from a dead stop with a stock torque converter.

The Verdict

If you want the best of both worlds—pulling hard at WOT on the highway and staying torquey for tight corners—Option C (Howards 217/225) is the winner, BUT only if you replace the torque converter.

Since you mentioned your torque converter options are open, pairing Option C with a mild aftermarket converter (around a 2,000 - 2,400 RPM stall) will completely transform the car. The stall converter will let the engine flash up into its powerband instantly, masking the "long" 3.08 gears out of tight corners, while the larger cam will give you that top-end highway charge you are looking for.

If you absolutely must keep the stock, tight torque converter, Option B is the safest bet to prevent the car from feeling sluggish off the line.

Calculating Dynamic Compression Ratio

To accurately calculate your Dynamic Compression Ratio (DCR), we have to look at the Intake Valve Closing (IVC) point of each camshaft.
Static Compression Ratio (SCR) assumes the cylinder is sealed from the very bottom of the stroke. However, in reality, the intake valve stays open as the piston starts moving upward to let more air/fuel cram into the cylinder. The engine only actually starts compressing the mixture after that intake valve fully closes.
Here are the standard specifications for your 355 Small Block Chevy that I used for the math:
* Bore: 4.030"
* Stroke: 3.480"
* Connecting Rod Length: 5.700"
* Static Compression (SCR): Calculated for both 9.8:1 and 10.0:1.
To find the true IVC, we use the advertised duration (not the @ .050" duration) and the intake centerline.

The Calculations
Option A: COMP Cams (CL12-412-8)
* Advertised Intake Duration: 264°
* Intake Centerline: 106°
* Intake Valve Closes (IVC): 58° After Bottom Dead Center (ABDC)
* DCR at 9.8:1 SCR: 8.22:1
* DCR at 10.0:1 SCR: 8.39:1

Option B: Howards Cams (CL110235-12)
* Advertised Intake Duration: 266°
* Intake Centerline: 108° (Assuming a standard 4° advance on its 112 LSA)
* Intake Valve Closes (IVC): 61° ABDC
* DCR at 9.8:1 SCR: 8.06:1
* DCR at 10.0:1 SCR: 8.22:1

Option C: Howards Cams (CL113215-10)
* Advertised Intake Duration: 270°
* Intake Centerline: 106° (Assuming a standard 4° advance on its 110 LSA)
* Intake Valve Closes (IVC): 61° ABDC
* DCR at 9.8:1 SCR: 8.06:1
* DCR at 10.0:1 SCR: 8.22:1

What do these numbers mean for you?
1. The Howards Cams tie on DCR:
Interestingly, Option B and Option C yield the exact same Dynamic Compression Ratio. How? Option C has more total duration (which delays the valve closing), but it is ground on a tighter 110 LSA/106 Centerline (which advances the valve events). Option B has a shorter duration, but is ground on a wider 112 LSA/108 Centerline. The math cancels out, meaning both Howards cams will trap the exact same amount of cylinder pressure at low RPMs.
2. Pump Gas Safety:
The ideal DCR for a street engine running on premium pump gas (91-93 octane) is generally between 8.0:1 and 8.4:1.
* If you have aluminum heads (which dissipate heat quickly), you can safely run up to about 8.5:1 DCR without detonation. All three cams will work perfectly.
* If you have cast iron heads, you want to stay closer to 8.0:1. If you end up actually hitting a 10.0:1 Static Compression with iron heads, the COMP Cams (Option A) pushes your DCR up to 8.39:1. This is getting uncomfortably close to the detonation danger zone on hot days or with 91 octane fuel. You would have to be very conservative with your ignition timing.

The Takeaway:
If you want to play it absolutely safe with your 9.8 - 10:1 compression ratio on pump gas, the delayed 61° valve closing of the two Howards camshafts (Option B and Option C) puts your Dynamic Compression Ratio directly in the sweet spot (8.06 to 8.22) for making great, ping-free street power.

 

Howard’s has always made top quality products.
My engine builder installed Morel roller lifters in my big block and when he put it on the dyno he pulled the Morel’s out because he didn’t like how noisy they were.
He installed a set of Gaterman roller lifters which he said were much better quality.
Gaterman was the chief engineer for Howard’s Cams for years, he retired and started his own brand.

 

MOST of Both Howards and Comps more affordable ($350-$525) retro-roller cams are typically ground on CAST cores of ADI/SADI. Those are iron castings, Not billet steel.
Of course BOTH of em do offer billet steel cores; but at a $ premium. FWIW: at one time ALL roller cams were ground on billet steel cores.

OTOH, Summit's house brand (Pro SBC rollers) ARE USA ground on USA SAE 5150 billet steel. Any/all of em are about $280.
FYI, GM's OE production roller cams ARE also all USA and ground on USA SAE 5150 billet steel; All of em.

Cast Iron lobes are Not nearly as resilient (as are 5150 billet steel lobes) to any instantaneous loss of control of valve train; Much less any repetitive loss of control.
Don't rely on A.I. Pick up a phone and do you own due diligence. Perhaps pick up a book as well.

 

Really surprised at how much I agree with the AI response. I did not do the math to see if its numbers are correct, but assuming they are, that 8.06 DCR should be just about perfect. No matter what you do, that 3.08 gear and stock convertor are going to hurt performance. Bottom line, if you are sticking with the stock convertor and the 3.08 gears, I would choos option 'B'. I have a Howards cam, but I don't have any reason to believe it's better than the Comp Cams product. I went with Howards because they offer the billet cam with a reduced base circle that I needed to clear the rods in my stroker motor.

 

Another vote here for Howards Cams. And, the LLM response (the "great predictor") seems to be more accurate than not.

While my application is different, it's a reference point: I have their CL120245-12 (225 int./231 exh.@050) in my Mark IV 454 with "049" iron heads (and many other items...). This is my 6th or so application with Howards Cams - the fit and finish are stellar, and I've yet to have anything but great luck with Howards Cams. I've not had the same success with Comp Cams in terms of their lifters. Regardless of which make and model you choose, do not - I repeat - do not go the route of a flat tappet. The benefits greatly outweigh the costs.

Lastly, as others have mentioned, regardless of what you choose, with your gearing you must address the torque converter. For reference, I have a Hughes GM20 Torque Converter (2,000 RPM) which stalls 400-500 RPM higher and it's about as perfect as it can get.

Good luck with whatever you choose!

 

Comp cams camshaft and Morel lifters , Comp has more lobe profiles in their Lobe Library than all other companies combined

 

Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
Denver NC USA
http://jonescams.com/

Mike has an extensive library as well, and grinders that can readily cut asymmetrical profiles. Personalized service + top quality as well.

 

I have read howards makes some the cams for the comp/lunatic/Edelbrock/TCI conglomerate of brands now owned by a private equity firm.. I have a couple comp retro rollers and never had an issue but for the 406 I just built I went with a summit retro roller LS firing order cam and it's advantages.

 

I have had the

Howards Cams Retrofit Hydraulic Roller Camshafts 111145-10

for 12 years now in my L-82 355 with zero issues and the choice was blessed by my builder (certainly trusted his thoughts and he was right, again) who has used 100's of these howards cams with no issues for street driven motors sub 6,000 RPM's!

Howards basically shared with me back in 2014 why billet might be overkill for my 355 the way it was speced to be built:

"For a street-driven 355 or 383 SBC with a redline under 6,000 RPM, a billet core is generally unnecessary. The ADI cores used in the Howards Cams 111145-10 are significantly stronger than old-school flat tappet cams and are designed to handle the spring pressures required for street hydraulic rollers without issue."

 

ADI (Austempered Ductile Iron) aka SADI (Selectively Austempered Ductile Iron) cores are Castings of Iron; they ARE Cast Iron. And, they're Not as robust as milder Billet Steel cores. You can bless ADI/SADI all ya want; by some magic builder or Ernie Elliott. SOS story ad nauseam. It doesn't change which material is stronger and better.

Jeez, even I could molly-coddle a turdshaft and keep it together long-term; I'm driving such a POS now.