CNN is on all day in my office, and online. I have yet to read anything about Scuds launched. They have launched short range missiles that they were allowed to keep.


My opinion is in the minority in the US. I live in a global society, not one that is based on American Imperialism.

If Iran and Russia were to be found harboring terrorists, would we attack them? When do we attack Kim in North Korea who stated that he will no longer honor the Armistic signed at the end of the Korean War? Kim has the world's 4th largest standing Army and is nuclear armed and making overt war threats. Why do we not attack him?

 

Robert,

You're obviously a Saddam apologist so it's no surprise you
weren't aware that Iraq launched SCUDs at Kuwait in the
early hours of the war. Here's just one press release...

But I'm sure you'll dismiss it.

With regard to North Korea... I'm sure we'll address that problem in
due time. However, the two situations are vastly different. NK has
not yet invaded a neighboring country. They haven't yet killed hundreds
of thousands of people. They haven't yet defied numerous UN resolutions.
But time will tell. I do know this.

North Korea would certainly be looking at how we're dealing with
Iraq. And if we backed off from our resolve with Iraq then no
doubt NK would see that as a sign of weakness that they would
exploit.

Appeasement isn't a workable strategy I'm afraid.

And if you're not happy with this country - you always have the
freedom to leave. Right?


[Modified by 74_LS-4, 6:05 PM 3/26/2003]

 

Actually that report was changed to be Al Samoud missiles that were fired at Kuwait.

Are differeing opinions what make this a great country?

 

:confused:

 

Robert N. makes a great point.

What about N. Korea? That would not be a walk in the park. Estimates say we'd lose 50-60,000 troops in the first few days. That's just Americans. South Korea would be overrun quickly. And their economy is something worth preserving. What would we do without Hyundai?

Despite Kim Il thumbing his nose at the world, daring us to take notice and do something about it, we'd be silly to do anything without China and Russia. Either that, or we'd have to do the unthinkable, and level North Korea. Which would be even dumber. The world wouldn't stand for it, unless there was true provocation (i.e. Kim actually uses one of his nukes to level L.A.).

Frankly, by going into Iraq, we're picking the low hanging fruit. And the hypocrisy is real. We're taking out Saddam for not using the weapons of mass destruction we're pretty sure he has, so he won't use them in the future. Kim Il is bragging about not only having nukes, but how he could hit California with them (not to mention running test flights over Japan and South Korea). Ahhh, but he has the BIG Army. Contributing 30% of your GDP to defense will do that.

So we could base our fight in Iraq on the equally important issue of human rights. Saddam is a bastard, right? Yes. But then so is Kim Il, who routinely imprisons people for no damn good reason and packs them into boxes so small they can't stand or stretch, for years...

All this points to one thing for me: the decisions and consequences arising out of the foreign policy/war choices we've made are far too important. That is, to depend on the opinions of the waiters and waitresses posing as actors to determine the our "right" course of action. These are people who haven't had to make a tough decision in their life, let alone one with such far reaching implications. Most of these people barely scraped through high school, let alone college.

On the other side of the equation, we have people like Colin Powell, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, and yes, George Bush. These people have lived distinquished lives and accomplished things of which most of us on this forum can't even dream. They make decisions every day that effect millions, and the consequences rise far above whether sparkling water or spring water is better for their complexion.

Given no real alternative, I have to believe and trust in our leaders and the choices they make. America does and will do the right thing, even if it costs us our sons and daughters, our hard earned wealth, or the way of life to which we are accustomed. This is something with which most other countries, Hollywood included, can't deal.

 

Yep.............we're all toothless, gun-crazed stupid rednecks who train our children to shoot from birth............. GIMMEE A BREAK!
Stop slurping up all that leftist, elitist drivel and REALLY think for yourself.
What kind of 'democracy' do you have when you can't back up the people's bark with a bite? The Second Amendment is the 'fail safe' guarantor of all our OTHER constitutional rights. It's the FREE citizen's ultimate insurance policy. You don't have to 'LOVE' or 'EMBRACE' it- just understand what it's REALLY there for. My opinion.

:yesnod: :yesnod:

 

Joeveto,

Thanks. The only issue I have with our leaders is if Kim II is the bigger threat at this point in time, why did we focus on Iraq. I am concerned that oil played a role in the decision (President Bush an VP Cheney made their money in oil and now Cheney's old company has a rebuild contract well before the war even ends without a formal bidding process) and the rest of the decision was based on the fact that Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, and Powell were all involved in the first Gulf War and pissed that we didn't get Saddam then (is this revenge).

I am concerned about ulterior motives. If the US stated that they will relinquish all control of rebuilding Iraq to the UN and would not play any role or ask for any 'reimbursement', my thoughts change drastically. Let us be the country that secures peace in the name of peace. I fear we are using the guise of peace as a means to controlling oil, wealth and power.

I believe Saddam needs to be removed, I am not against our government, I will not protest, I fully support our troops, and I would serve if drafted. I just have concerns about where this is leading the US in the future and what it could mean in terms of world affairs.

 

Hey, anybody heard of this Haliburton company that "won" the contract as lead contractor to "rebuild" Iraq? :reddevil

Just thought I'd keep the conversation lively... :D

Hans

 

Uhh...Hans...

It's spelled "Halliburton". Perhaps that's why you couldn't find any correct details.

By the way, they didn't win a contract to "rebuild" Iraq.

One of their divisions, KBR, won a contract to extinguish oil well fires. They won the award because they were the only company able to react on short notice.

I think your anti-Bush/Cheney side is showing.

 

74_LS-4 is correct that the thought behind why they got the contract to put ou the oil fires was the ability to respond on short notice. The doubts in many minds, however, are based on the following:

"It is an especially auspicious first awardee, however, because Dick Cheney was CEO of Halliburton until 2000. Upon entering the vice president's office, Cheney divested himself of his holdings, although he reportedly still receives about $1 million a year in compensation from the company."


Of an interesting note:

NewsMax Wires
Monday, June 25, 2001

UNITED NATIONS, June 23 (UPI) -- Halliburton Co., the oil company that was headed by Vice President Dick Cheney, signed contracts with Iraq worth $73 million through two subsidiaries while he was at its helm, the Washington Post reported.

Oil industry executives and confidential U.N. records showed, however, that Halliburton held stakes in two companies that signed contracts to sell more than $73 million in oil production equipment and spare parts to Iraq while Cheney was chairman and chief executive officer, the Post reported.

Two former senior executives of the Halliburton subsidiaries said they knew of no policy against dealing with Iraq. One of them said he was certain Cheney knew about the deals, though he had never spoken about them to the vice president directly.

 

Micheal Moore is a joke, not the place or time to show your lack of support for the troops.

 

My neighbor's only son is in the 1st Marine EF. I support the heck out of the troops, I just have a real tough time with all the two-faced posturing politicians on both sides of the isle. I consider them all bribe taking scum, right up to the top. Now, that may be a systemic problem, but I don't have to like it. I just keep voting (registered Republican, would have voted for McCain if given the chance, voted for Dubya, gritting my teeth).

Hans

 

Hey Corey, I bet you didn't think your post would be 3 pages long or better, huh? :lol:

 

The Hollywood folks all live like fat cats protected by fences and bodyguards in their fortresses. Does any of them risk going shopping at the local mall and be gassed or blown apart by terrorists? Doubtful. I don't think the American enemy, terrorism is targeting Rodeo Drive. They don't have a clue what's going on beyond Sunset Blvd. Charlie Daniels wrote and distributed the following last week. Let's buy his recordings and boycott the "dissenters" movies and music! While we're at it let's not buy French products. forget Michelin tires.


Open Letter to Hollywood Bunch from Charlie Daniels:
> >
> > OK-Let's just say for a moment you bunch of pampered, overpaid,
> > unrealistic children had your way and the U.S.A. didn't go into Iraq.
> >
> > Let's say that you really get your way and we destroy all our nuclear
> > weapons and stick daisies in our gun barrels and sit around with some
> > white wine and cheese and pat ourselves on the back, so proud of what
> > we've
> > done for world peace.
> >
> > Let's say that we cut the military budget to just enough to keep the
> > National Guard on hand to help out with floods and fires.
> >
> > Let's say that we close down our military bases all over the world and
> > bring the troops home, increase our foreign aid and drop all the trade
> > sanctions against everybody.
> >
> > I suppose that in your fantasy world this would create a utopian world
> > where everybody would live in peace. After all, the great monster,
> > the United States of America, the cause of all the world's trouble
> > would have disbanded it's horrible military and certainly all the other
> > countries of the world would follow suit.
> >
> > After all, they only arm themselves to defend their countries from the
> > mean old U.S.A.
> >
> > Why you bunch of pitiful, hypocritical, idiotic, spoiled mugwumps.
> > Get your head out of the sand and smell the Trade Towers burning.
> >
> > Do you think that a trip to Iraq by Sean Penn did anything but
> > encourage a wanton murderer to think that the people of the U.S.A.
didn't
> > have the nerve or the guts to fight him?
> >
> > Barbra Streisand's fanatical and hateful rantings about George Bush
> > makes about as much sense as Michael Jackson hanging a baby over a
> > railing.
> >
> > You people need to get out of Hollywood once in a while and get out
> > into the real world. You'd be surprised at the hostility you would find
> > out
> > here.
> >
> > Stop in at a truck stop and tell an overworked, long distance truck
driver
> > that you don't think Saddam Hussein is doing anything wrong.
> >
> > Tell a farmer with a couple of sons in the military that you think the
> > United States has no right to defend itself.
> >
> > Go down to Baxley, Georgia and hold an anti-war rally and see what the
> > folks down there think about you.
> >
> > You people are some of the most disgusting examples of a waste of
> > protoplasm I've ever had the displeasure to hear about.
> > Sean Penn, you're a traitor to the United States of America. You gave
> > aid and comfort to the enemy. How many American lives will your little,
> > "fact finding trip" to Iraq cost? You encouraged Saddam to think that we
> > didn't have the stomach for war.
> >
> > You people protect one of the most evil men on the face of this earth
> > and won't lift a finger to save the life of an unborn baby.
> >
> > Freedom of choice you say?
> > Well I'm going to exercise some freedom of choice of my own. If I see
> > any of your names on a marquee, I'm going to boycott the movie. I will
> > completely stop going to movies if I have to. In most cases it certainly
> > wouldn't
> > be much of a loss.
> >
> > You scoff at our military whose boots you're not even worthy to shine.
> > They go to battle and risk their lives so ingrates like you can live in
> > luxury.
> >
> > The day of reckoning is coming when you will be faced with the
> > undeniable truth that the war against Saddam Hussein is the war on
> > terrorism.
> >
> > America is in imminent danger. You're either for her or against her.
> > There is no middle ground.
> >
> > I think we all know where you stand.
> > What do you think?
> > God Bless America!
> > Charlie Daniels

:flag :flag :flag :flag :rant:

 

> Last week, the Shelby County Alabama Legislative
> Delegation hosted a "Stand
> Up for America Rally." More than 1,200 people
> attended including featured
> speakers Chief Justice Roy Moore, Adjutant General
> Mark Bowen and Alabama
> State Auditor Beth Chapman.
>
> Attached is a copy of Mrs. Chapman's speech, which
> resulted in five standing
> ovations, tremendous applause and an encore. It's a
> short read and well
> worth it.
>
> I hope you enjoy it as we continue to "Stand up for
> America!"
>
> The program may be viewed Wednesday, March 5th at
> 8:00 PM on Charter Cable
> Channel Six in our area.
>
> Stand Up for America Rally Speech By: Beth Chapman
>
> I'm here tonight because men and women of the United
> States military have
> given their lives for my freedom. I am not here
> tonight because Sheryl
> Crowe, Rosie O'Donnell, Martin Sheen, George
> Clooney, Jane Fonda or Phil
> Donahue, sacrificed their lives for me.
>
> If my memory serves me correctly, it was not movie
> stars or musicians, but
> the United States Military who fought on the shores
> of Iwo Jima, the jungles
> of Vietnam, and the beaches of Normandy. Tonight, I
> say we should support
> the President of the United States and the U.S.
> Military and tell the
> liberal, tree-hugging, Birkenstock-wearing, hippy,
> tie-dyed liberals to go
> make their movies and music and whine somewhere
> else.
>
> After all, if they lived in Iraq, they wouldn't be
> allowed the freedom of
> speech they're being given here today. Ironically,
> they would be put to
> death at the hands of Sadam Husssein or Osama Bin
> Laden. I want to know how
> the very people who are against war because of the
> loss of life, can
> possibly be the same people who are for abortion?
>
> They are the same people who are for animal rights
> but against the rights of
> the unborn. The movie stars say they want to go to
> Iraq and serve as "human
> shields" for the Iraqis. I say let them buy a
> one-way ticket and go.
>
> No one likes war. I hate war! But the one thing I
> hate more is the fact that
> this country has been forced into war-innocent
> people have lost their
> lives - - and there but for the grace of God, it
> could have been my brother,
> my husband, or even worse my own son.
>
> On December 7, 1941, there are no records of movie
> stars treading the
> blazing waters of Pearl Harbor.
>
> On September 11, 2001; there are no photos of movie
> stars standing as "human
> shields" against the debris and falling bodies
> ascending from the World
> Trade Center. There were only policemen and firemen
> - -underpaid civil
> servants who gave their all with nothing expected in
> return.
>
> When the USS Cole was bombed, there were no movie
> stars guarding the
> ship - - where were the human shields then?
>
> If America's movie stars want to be human shields,
> let them shield the
> gang-ridden streets of Los Angeles, or New York
> City, let them shield the
> lives of the children of North Birmingham whose
> mothers lay them down to
> sleep on the floor each night to shelter them from
> stray bullets.
>
> If they want to be human shields, I say let them
> shield the men and women of
> honesty and integrity that epitomizes courage and
> embody the spirit of
> freedom by wearing the proud uniforms of the United
> States Military. Those
> are the people who have earned and deserve
> shielding!
>
> Throughout the course of history, this country has
> remained free, not
> because of movie stars and liberal activists, but
> because of brave men and
> women who hated war too. However, they lay down
> their lives so that we all
> may live in freedom. After all - "What greater love
> hath no man, that he lay
> down his life for his friend," or in this case a
> country.
>
> We should give our military honor and
> acknowledgement and not let their
> lives be in vain. If you want to see true human
> shields, walk through
> Arlington Cemetery. There lie human shields, heroes,
> and the BRAVE Americans
> who didn't get on television and talk about being a
> human shield - they were
> human shields.
>
> I thank God tonight for freedom - - those who bought
> and paid for it with
> their lives in the past - - those who will protect
> it in the present and
> defend it in the future.
>
> America has remained silent too long! God-fearing
> people have remained
> silent too long!
>
> We must lift our voices united in a humble prayer to
> God for guidance and
> the strength and courage to sustain us throughout
> whatever the future may
> hold.
>
> After the tragic events of Sept. 11th, my then
> eleven -year-old son said
> terrorism is a war against them and us and if you're
> not one of us, then
> you're one of them.
>
> So in closing tonight, let us be of one accord, let
> us stand proud, and let
> us be the human shields of prayer, encouragement and
> support for the
> President, our troops and their families and our
> country.
>
> May God bless America, the land of the free, the
> home of the brave and the
> greatest country on the face of this earth

This speech was great.......and tells the TowelyWood loving actors and musicians how I feel too. :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :seeya Cappy


[Modified by 8T1-7T9 BIONIC VETTE, 7:55 AM 3/28/2003]

 

No Joke! :lolg:

 

Please email his if you disagree with his actions:
mike@michaelmoore.com

Also, please read my post on the subject. On this page is also the letter I personally wrote to him.
http://www.tbsz.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=315

 

whoa...guys...do you even know who michael moore is...!?

He started his career with the film "Roger&Me", a documentary about the GM layoff situation in Flint michigan in the late 80s, which just happend to win an oscar as well. If you havnt seen it, definatly check it out.

His next film wasnt until much later, i cant even remember the name, but it was basically him making fun of companies such as pilsbary (who got a 20 million dollar grant from the government to promote their doughboy in the 3rd world) nike, payday...etc.

He had a series on bravo where he did basically the same thing as in the movies.

And his last film bowling for columbine was a look at our gun culture in america, most people praised it until his little oscar incident. What the hell do you expect when you put a guy like that up there?

But i'll go out on a limb here and say that Michael Moore is a real american, someone who dosnt just buy into everything he hears and sees. I used to be a marine, so i know if you give the government the chance; they'll just walk all over you.

But come on guys, even if you dont like him: It's America, it's his oscar; let him say his piece. It always amazes me how much we value freedom of speech, but most of time we're the last people on earth to practice it.

 

I thought he was an azz back then, and I think he's an even BIGGER azz now. How you like my free speech??

 

:lol: :lol: :iagree: