NOS Install?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,162
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From: Beaverton, OR
NOS Install?
I'm a bit confused about a couple of things with NOS installs... Some systems are "wet" and some are "dry". I just learned that today surfing the Holley website... This makes good sense to me. My question is with the wet systems, would there be any need to run your carb on the rich side? Also, I don't imagine there would be any dry system made that goes to 175HP? I need to talk to my engine builder about this as he was going to be jetting my carb on the rich side, but now I'm wondering if that is necessary? I also couldn't find an 175HP system made by NOS, which is what he recommends (and I agree with). I'll be calling him back in a couple of hours, but I wanted a bit more knowledge before calling him and making an azz of myself :)
Thanks!
Thanks!
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,431
Likes: 52
From: Florida
Re: NOS Install? (dath)
NOS Super Powershot is up to a 150hp system. That's what I'm using.
IMO....no need to richen carb up as that is the purpose of the wet system.
Do a plug reading or use air/fuel mixture meter while getting things dialed in. It would be better to be rich than lean if in doubt. One or two step colder plugs would also be a good idea in addition to timing of max. 34 degrees advance. Aluminum heads are a nice addition to help prevent detonation.
Jim
IMO....no need to richen carb up as that is the purpose of the wet system.
Do a plug reading or use air/fuel mixture meter while getting things dialed in. It would be better to be rich than lean if in doubt. One or two step colder plugs would also be a good idea in addition to timing of max. 34 degrees advance. Aluminum heads are a nice addition to help prevent detonation.
Jim
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 2
From: Beaverton, OR
Re: NOS Install? (jimvette999)
NOS Super Powershot is up to a 150hp system. That's what I'm using.
IMO....no need to richen carb up as that is the purpose of the wet system.
Do a plug reading or use air/fuel mixture meter while getting things dialed in. It would be better to be rich than lean if in doubt. One or two step colder plugs would also be a good idea in addition to timing of max. 34 degrees advance. Aluminum heads are a nice addition to help prevent detonation.
Jim
IMO....no need to richen carb up as that is the purpose of the wet system.
Do a plug reading or use air/fuel mixture meter while getting things dialed in. It would be better to be rich than lean if in doubt. One or two step colder plugs would also be a good idea in addition to timing of max. 34 degrees advance. Aluminum heads are a nice addition to help prevent detonation.
Jim
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,431
Likes: 52
From: Florida
Re: NOS Install? (dath)
I bet you could add the larger solenoids to the Super Power Shot system to get that 175hp level you wanted. I think the 150hp limitation is based on the ability of the solenoid flow capacity. The bottle valve may also be a restriction factor that you would have to change. The NOS Cheater system is 150-250hp. That ought to do it.
Hope you get it the way you want it.
Jim
Hope you get it the way you want it.
Jim
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,162
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From: Beaverton, OR
Re: NOS Install? (jimvette999)
You're probably right about that. I was more curious about which system he may be recommending, or if perhaps he misread the HP figure, or what the deal was. He specifically said 175HP on several occasions and I'm only just now telling him to go ahead with it since the engine is pretty much there. I think I'll just call and ask, I just don't like to bother him too much since he's most likely busy trying to do "real" work and I've called a number of times already :crazy:
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,080
Likes: 565
From: Allen TX
Re: NOS Install? (dath)
I don't know how a dry kit would work in practice with a carb setup. They are popular on late model EFI kits. The fuel pressure spikes under nitrous activation, which in turn pushes more fuel through the injectors.
But on a carb setup, I would run a wet kit.
But on a carb setup, I would run a wet kit.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,078
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From: DFW TX
Cruise-In VII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '07
Re: NOS Install? (WA 2 FST)
Also, when calculating the jets for a wet system, deduct about 25 hp from NOS's pill settings. I think the lawyers chose the jets.
175 is a big hit. Why so big? How do you plan to use it?
175 is a big hit. Why so big? How do you plan to use it?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,162
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From: Beaverton, OR
Re: NOS Install? (Budman78)
Also, when calculating the jets for a wet system, deduct about 25 hp from NOS's pill settings. I think the lawyers chose the jets.
175 is a big hit. Why so big? How do you plan to use it?
175 is a big hit. Why so big? How do you plan to use it?
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 2
From: Beaverton, OR
Re: NOS Install? (dath)
Maybe I've just answered my own question... From the holley website tech Q&A
Q: Will I have to re-jet my carburetor on my car when adding nitrous?
A: No! The NOS system is independent of your carburetor and injects its own mixture of fuel and nitrous.
Now I'm wondering how true that is, but they say you don't have to. I think I need to talk to Mark, but I didn't have a chance to call today...
Q: Will I have to re-jet my carburetor on my car when adding nitrous?
A: No! The NOS system is independent of your carburetor and injects its own mixture of fuel and nitrous.
Now I'm wondering how true that is, but they say you don't have to. I think I need to talk to Mark, but I didn't have a chance to call today...
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,080
Likes: 565
From: Allen TX
Re: NOS Install? (dath)
dath,
I agree 100% with your thinking. Forced induction (blower, turbo, nitrous) of any kind allows a docile car to gain gobs of power without sacrificing driveability.
If the bottom-end has forged internals and was built right, then a 175hp shot is not bad.
Just remember, the bigger the shot, the better chance you'll have to run an ever colder plug (1 stage colder is mandatory whenever running it, you may need at least 2 steps colder), and less timing when on the bottle.
As far as jet sizes go, the bigger the motor the bigger the jets need to be to get the equivalent gain in HP/TQ. Jets for a 350 might yield 150hp, but on a 454 will only give 100hp.
I agree 100% with your thinking. Forced induction (blower, turbo, nitrous) of any kind allows a docile car to gain gobs of power without sacrificing driveability.
If the bottom-end has forged internals and was built right, then a 175hp shot is not bad.
Just remember, the bigger the shot, the better chance you'll have to run an ever colder plug (1 stage colder is mandatory whenever running it, you may need at least 2 steps colder), and less timing when on the bottle.
As far as jet sizes go, the bigger the motor the bigger the jets need to be to get the equivalent gain in HP/TQ. Jets for a 350 might yield 150hp, but on a 454 will only give 100hp.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Re: NOS Install? (dath)
If your engine builder is jetting the carb on the rich side to run nitrous I would wonder how much experience he has with nitrous. He should know the answer to that question. Besides how much of the time are you driving on nitrous vs normal driving. A rich motor washes down the cylinder walls, gets short engine life , uses alot more gas, fouls plugs etc, etc.
As for 175 horse that is a poor choice for starters and also for street driving. 100 horse is far better. With 100 horse you will still really feel the difference, it is easy on parts, no special plugs, ignition timing or dedicated fuel systems.
The 175 horse level needs a dedicated fuel system, colder plugs and a retarted ignition or a nitrous retart system
If you install a .054 pill in both the nitrous and gas, running them square you will love the power, not break parts and need no other change.
I have spend years running nitrous and set up lots of systems for the local kids who know nothing abut nitrous and have watched them cut up to 1.5 seconds off the quarter mile times and NEVER break, well transmissions power shifted do not count.
Stick to the 100 horse and it will save alot of heartache.
Trust me I know these things :) :) :)
As for 175 horse that is a poor choice for starters and also for street driving. 100 horse is far better. With 100 horse you will still really feel the difference, it is easy on parts, no special plugs, ignition timing or dedicated fuel systems.
The 175 horse level needs a dedicated fuel system, colder plugs and a retarted ignition or a nitrous retart system
If you install a .054 pill in both the nitrous and gas, running them square you will love the power, not break parts and need no other change.
I have spend years running nitrous and set up lots of systems for the local kids who know nothing abut nitrous and have watched them cut up to 1.5 seconds off the quarter mile times and NEVER break, well transmissions power shifted do not count.
Stick to the 100 horse and it will save alot of heartache.
Trust me I know these things :) :) :)
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 2
From: Beaverton, OR
Re: NOS Install? (norvalwilhelm)
THANK YOU. I am so glad you just told me about what I have started thinking after reading the entire Holley NOS technical section on Holley's website. I was thinking that perhaps Mark knew something I didn't in regards to the NOS fuel jets not putting in enough petrol or something. I was looking at the Super Powershot system which has several jet combos included in the kit (100, 125, 150). I think I'll call Mark Tuesday and ask him which kit he was suggesting... As for the carb, he is thinking a Holley 750 double pumper mechanical secondary... There are as many opinions about this stuff as there are people doing it I think. I'm not even interested in a consensus, just an opinion that I can understand and trust... I wonder, should I just setup the carb myself perhaps, or do you think it's worth it to have him do the initial setup to get it in the ball park?
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Re: NOS Install? (dath)
dath trust me on the nitrous and don't just jump into the 175 horse range. At least start small with the 100 and be safe. If you go with the 750 double pumper and I personally like double pumpers start with the stock setup. Why does the mechanic have to change it's factory settings? You will find the stock double pumpers already on the rich side right out of the box. They are never too lean.
Good luck dath and don't be afraid to ask questions.
Good luck dath and don't be afraid to ask questions.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 396
Likes: 1
From: Coventry CT
Re: NOS Install? (dath)
i have the cheater kit, i just bought an extra jet pack and you can make just about any hp combo. i currenty run 175hp.
get spark plugs that are two steps colder and you will also need to close the gap up a bit because the cylinder pressure may blow out the spark.
very important !!!! make sure you are running high octane fuel when you spray it with that much nos. the high octane will prevent detonation.
get spark plugs that are two steps colder and you will also need to close the gap up a bit because the cylinder pressure may blow out the spark.
very important !!!! make sure you are running high octane fuel when you spray it with that much nos. the high octane will prevent detonation.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 2
From: Beaverton, OR
Re: NOS Install? (norvalwilhelm)
dath trust me on the nitrous and don't just jump into the 175 horse range. At least start small with the 100 and be safe. If you go with the 750 double pumper and I personally like double pumpers start with the stock setup. Why does the mechanic have to change it's factory settings? You will find the stock double pumpers already on the rich side right out of the box. They are never too lean.
Good luck dath and don't be afraid to ask questions.
Good luck dath and don't be afraid to ask questions.
Jared - Yeah, I noticed the four important things when going over 100HP seem to be plug temp range, plug gap, timing retard, and 100+ octane fuel...
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Re: NOS Install? (dath)
dath. You will be safe with 100 horse, no need to start lower but if you insist try a jet around .045-.048 in both. I know they normally run gas a little richer but if you have 2 jets close just put the smaller in the nitrous and the bigger in the gass. I run both the same alot.
Do you know the proper way to wire in the nitrous?
If you are street driving this car you don't want cold plugs and a high horsepower system that you are afraid of.
So if you want to start small both jets in the .045 range and if you want to step it up .054 range with the bigger in the gas.
If there is a problem with the wiring just ask.
Do you know the proper way to wire in the nitrous?
If you are street driving this car you don't want cold plugs and a high horsepower system that you are afraid of.
So if you want to start small both jets in the .045 range and if you want to step it up .054 range with the bigger in the gas.
If there is a problem with the wiring just ask.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 2
From: Beaverton, OR
Re: NOS Install? (norvalwilhelm)
I do not know how to wire the NOS system. I was counting on NOS to supply me a really nice set of instructions :rolleyes: I will be street driving the car, but save perhaps a few childish incidents, I doubt I'll use the NOS on the street, though I suppose if I had just a little bit, that wouldn't hurt too much :D
I'm not *too* worried about the wiring as long as they provide reasonable directions. Electrical things bother me far less than mechanical... What I'm unsure about at this point is exactly how the system is triggered. I would assume that the following things would be normal, correct away if I'm wrong:
1 - Open valve on NOS bottle.
2 - Flip toggle switch to enable system.
... (here things get sketchy)
3 - Get RPMS to 3000+ and then press NOS button (does this go on steering wheel?)
4 - Is there a WOT switch or something?
5 - Release NOS button after about 15 seconds or when you're done.
I'm not *too* worried about the wiring as long as they provide reasonable directions. Electrical things bother me far less than mechanical... What I'm unsure about at this point is exactly how the system is triggered. I would assume that the following things would be normal, correct away if I'm wrong:
1 - Open valve on NOS bottle.
2 - Flip toggle switch to enable system.
... (here things get sketchy)
3 - Get RPMS to 3000+ and then press NOS button (does this go on steering wheel?)
4 - Is there a WOT switch or something?
5 - Release NOS button after about 15 seconds or when you're done.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Re: NOS Install? (dath)
Dath. The first thing is a relay. It is at least a 30 amp relay that has one side wired to 12 volts and the other side DIRECTLY to BOTH solenoids.
For arming you have a main switch that is wired to 12 volts and this switch should have a light so you know it is armed. The switch goes to a micro switch that is mounted on the carb so when the throttle is WIDE open the micro switch is activated. The other side of the micro switch goes to the contacts of the relay, and the other side of the relay is ground.
So after opening the bottle, you arm the system by activating the lighted switch on the dash or where ever. From now on all you have to do is floor it and the nitrous is on, let off full thottle and the nitrous is off.
You do not mechanically push a button for your system. You have enough to worry about so once you arm the system just floor it and it turns on.
You must use a relay that comes with the system or buy one for about $5. You must have an arming switch with a light, and finally a micro switch mounted to the carb.
Once you actually get the system run it past me again what you are doing.
Also check the resource list and see if someone is covering Nitrous. Run it past them.
For arming you have a main switch that is wired to 12 volts and this switch should have a light so you know it is armed. The switch goes to a micro switch that is mounted on the carb so when the throttle is WIDE open the micro switch is activated. The other side of the micro switch goes to the contacts of the relay, and the other side of the relay is ground.
So after opening the bottle, you arm the system by activating the lighted switch on the dash or where ever. From now on all you have to do is floor it and the nitrous is on, let off full thottle and the nitrous is off.
You do not mechanically push a button for your system. You have enough to worry about so once you arm the system just floor it and it turns on.
You must use a relay that comes with the system or buy one for about $5. You must have an arming switch with a light, and finally a micro switch mounted to the carb.
Once you actually get the system run it past me again what you are doing.
Also check the resource list and see if someone is covering Nitrous. Run it past them.
