Slightly OT, but...I'm looking for a new daily driver and have decided on a 1970 El Camino SS. My first choice is a 454 (LS5), but I have found a couple of nice 396 (402) cars out there. I've driven a couple of stock 325 hp 396's and was not impressed. These Elkys are a little better at 350 hp, but I'm wondering what kind of power potential the 396 has with a roller cam and the usual hop-up items. Since it's a driver, it must remain very streetable. Any thoughts?

 

I had that motor in a 79 Suburban (a transplant from a 71 Chevy) The motor had plenty of power. The Holley it had was running rich, never did get that problem completely solved, but man was that car a gas guzzler! It would pass everything but a gas station, and then I dare not shut the engine off because it would not crank over when it was hot. I think the machine shop built the motor too tight. I guess I would say my own experience with the motor was it was not all that great. I think staying with small blocks is a more economical way to go, especially for a daily driver. Hopefully others will pipe in here? :cheers:

 

Not surprising... The 396 cars, outnumber the 454 cars by a substantial margin. I'm sure you've found that the price difference is substantial as well.

I'm not surprised. The L-35 396/325 is the "307" of big blocks... It's a utility engine with no real provision made by the factory for performance in stock form. Still, the parts that are there are quite stout and with a little work and some judicious parts swapping, they can be made to run with the big dogs.

Cylinder head work... Camshaft change... Distributor recurve... You'll have lots of fun with a basically stock engine. The stock compression may be an issue, but that can be addressed if it becomes a problem. I always liked the 396... A bit smaller bore than the 427, but still has all the good parts and doesn't give much away in performance to its bigger brother. I can tell you that my L-78 Nova will give my L-89 Corvette fits through the first three gears... It's one of the fastest straight line cars that I've ever driven. The potential is definitely there.

Good luck with El Camino search!

Regards,

 

A friend of mine has a 66 chevelle with a M21 and a 375horse 396 that has been gone through, like the compression is down to 9.5, it still had the origional solid lifter cam and rect port heads, and it's the fastest car I have ever ridden in (with 3 people in it). It was incredible (then he put 2 rod shaped holes in the block and now it has a similarly built 427 and I haven't ridden in it yet).

 

I had a '70 SS Nova with that engine in it - bone stock with an automatic and 3.55's turned 13.9 in the quarter. I bought that car brand new and totally it 4 months later when I smacked head on into a Plymouth GTX - man, I wish I had that car back. That 402, 350 HP was a very good engine.

 

Hmmm...you guys are making the 396 sound pretty good. From what I've seen so far, I can pick one up for a few thousand less than a 454. The savings could buy some good aluminum heads, roller cam, and maybe even EFI. Think it would be reasonable to expect high 12's and still be a practical daily driver? Thanks for the input!

 

The 396/402 is a great engine capable of makeing plenty power. However, the more cubic inches you have the less radical it will need to be to make H.P. At 1hp per cubic inch, which is plenty streetable, the 454 starts looking better!

 

I had a 350hp 396, M21, `67 Chevelle, that I'd purchased new. With the standard 3.55's, posi, and F70 14 bias plies, it ran 14.30's as delivered and could get 17mpg on the hwy if I kept my foot out of the carburetor. With some tuning and practice, it turned a best of 14.06 pure stock. I swapped the stock 585 Holley for a 780 and got to 13.9, some headers were worth 3/10th's, 4.10's and better tires a couple more. With no work inside the engine and still with it's original cam, intake manifold, and heads, it ran a best of 13.30 on street tires. With a 280º Crane cam and some borrowed, and very old, 7" wide slicks it ran a best of 12.78. By that time I could get 14 mpg on the hwy if I tried hard.

My older brother had a `64 GTO, 325hp 4 spd, that couldn't do better than low 15's. He was impressed by my SS but, having just bought his first house, his budget was tight. He special ordered an SS with one option, the radio. Standard 325hp, bench seats, Saginaw 3spd, standard 3.31's, no posi, no nothing. First time out it ran 14.4's. His best time was 14.20. By chance, that 14.20 was on a run against a brand new 426 Hemi Roadrunner and a driver that probably needed a lot more practice with it. The Hemi ran a 14.26 but was much slower out of the hole and that difference looked much greater to those watching.

The main difference between the 325hp and the 350hp engines were the cam and, on the earlier ones, the 350hp versions used a 585 Holley instead of a Quadrajet. Heads, compression, etc. were the same.

 

i had a 70chevelle ss with the numbers matching 396 (402) 350hp...i added a few things here...the basics...stuck with a bigger hydraulic cam it ran great...on a set of 12.5 mickey thompson slicks, it ran in the 8s all day long on the local 1/8th mile track and i drove it almost every day in high school..(no rainy days of course) and it also got anywhere from 8-11 miles a gallon.

 

how hard is it to put a bigger (454?) crank into a 396 block?

 

That's a good question, OatBoy! I could buy a 396 with the comfort of knowing I could always stroke it, if I want more. The 396 has been rebuilt, so it should have a .030 or .060 overbore. With a 4" crank, that would result in a 434 or 440 (instant Mopar?). I assume you have to change the entire reciprocating assembly, though, so it would probably be easier to just swap in a 454 and get a few more cubes. Decisions, decisions....


[Modified by Tex71BB, 10:09 AM 6/4/2003]

 

I'm told that a 396 can easily be bored out to 4.250" with no problems, if you keep the origional crank (both of mine just happened to have steel cranks) you have instant 427. Even if you wanted a 454, you could still use the 396 block and punch it out to 4.250". I personally like the sound "four twenty-seven" has so the chevelle engine in the garage will slowly be transformed as the truck engine in the vette gets tortured!

 

I've run quite a few 396's over the years. Most were based on 2 bolt main lo-po original 325/350 Hp versions.

One was a 396/375 with two sleeves in it, a bunch of helicoiled head bolts, an L-88 cam, stock rectangular ports, a Weiand tunnel ram with 660 center squirters. It ran mid-high 10's in a 4 speed 3400 lb Nova pulling wheelies in second gear and turning 7500+ rpm regularly.

The lo po versions were all based on 10.25 cast pistons, oval port GM iron heads, several different hyd flat tappet and solid flat tappet cams, Holley Strip Dominator intakes, 750 DP Holleys and 1 3/4" headers. They revved in the 6200-6600 range and ran high 11's/lo 12's in Nova's and Camaro's.

One was in a '69 SS396 Chevelle. It was a 325hp one with a GM marine .500 lift cam, cast iron intake, and Q-jet with 1 3/4" headers. It ran low-mid 13's with a T-400, stock converter and 3.36 gears with 9" slicks. Ran many, many runs against a buddy's SS454 Monte Carlo. He had more cubes, less compression, same cam and no headers. We ran eyeball to eyeball on every run.

I think with todays technology in cams, you could easily build a daily driver 12 sec 396 El Camino with GM iron heads. Put in a good cam, pocket port the heads, install headers, RPM air gap intake and a 750 Holley and you're home free. I doubt gas mileage will be great unless you install a 200R4 behind it. I wouldn't use a 700 R4.

The 396 is an often overlooked motor that can make lots of power. I wouldn't spend a ton of money on one, but if I got one cheap, I'd do a quicky rebuild with a few hotrod parts and have a blast!

JIM

 

Thanks for all the great responses, guys! Looks like there are lots of options: hop it up, bore and/stroke it. Sounds like it would be fairly easy to get the performance I want out of the 396. Like Chris, I also like the sound of 4-2-7. This opens up a lot more possibilities, as someone said, there are a lot more 396s than there are 454s.