Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system...
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From: Lakeland, FL
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St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (Pete79L82)
A friend of mine runs his breathers directly into a overflow container without it being hooked up to the vacuum system or exhaust and he has no oil leaks...
I also know several people that just run breathers without a hooked up PCV system and they have no issues either...
Olivier; You are missing the intended purpose of that system. It is designed to scavenge the air out of the engine. Not just as a breather. A breather will only allow the engine to achieve "zero" (atmospheric) pressure. An evac system like this is designed to create a vacuum in the engine. When you create a vacuum (negative pressure) in the engine the rings will seat better and you will help to eliminate the oil cloud in the pan. On our short track motors will try to maintain 7" of vacuum. On a Cup motor we try to maintain 15" of vacuum. The Moroso kit will achieve about 2" of vacuum with a good designed header at WOT. The more vacuum you can maintain in the crankcase the more power the engine will make.
If all you want to do is to use it as a breather then just putting a hose in a catch can will work fine. But that will only get you to zero pressure, not to vacuum.
Pete
I also know several people that just run breathers without a hooked up PCV system and they have no issues either...
Olivier; You are missing the intended purpose of that system. It is designed to scavenge the air out of the engine. Not just as a breather. A breather will only allow the engine to achieve "zero" (atmospheric) pressure. An evac system like this is designed to create a vacuum in the engine. When you create a vacuum (negative pressure) in the engine the rings will seat better and you will help to eliminate the oil cloud in the pan. On our short track motors will try to maintain 7" of vacuum. On a Cup motor we try to maintain 15" of vacuum. The Moroso kit will achieve about 2" of vacuum with a good designed header at WOT. The more vacuum you can maintain in the crankcase the more power the engine will make.
If all you want to do is to use it as a breather then just putting a hose in a catch can will work fine. But that will only get you to zero pressure, not to vacuum.
Pete
There must be a reason that no serious performance car at the track has a PCV system hooked up.. Many of the cars there use a similar system like I ordered... If you'd get better performance with with the PCV system - why isn't everybody using it at the track :confused: :confused:
[Modified by GrandSportC3, 2:54 PM 10/22/2003]
Drifting
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From: Shawano WI
Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (GrandSportC3)
Sounds interesting... However - the power you gain by having more vacuum - you'll lose by recirculating hot air into the system...
There must be a reason that no serious performance car at the track has a PCV system hooked up.. Many of the cars there use a similar system like I ordered... If you'd get better performance with with the PCV system - why isn't everybody using it at the track :confused: :confused:
There must be a reason that no serious performance car at the track has a PCV system hooked up.. Many of the cars there use a similar system like I ordered... If you'd get better performance with with the PCV system - why isn't everybody using it at the track :confused: :confused:
You misunderstood me. The Moroso system will create a vacuum, not a pvc valve. A pcv does not have the volume to create a vacuum. At best a pcv will only get you to zero pressure at WOT, and that would have to be on an exceptionally sealed motor. A pcv works great on the street but has no use at the track. Your Moroso kit will work good at the track but I am not sure one way or the other if it will work on the street.
Pete
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St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (GrandSportC3)
Here's a pic of a Dragster engine with the evacuation system...
Thread Starter
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From: Lakeland, FL
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St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (Pete79L82)
Sounds interesting... However - the power you gain by having more vacuum - you'll lose by recirculating hot air into the system...
There must be a reason that no serious performance car at the track has a PCV system hooked up.. Many of the cars there use a similar system like I ordered... If you'd get better performance with with the PCV system - why isn't everybody using it at the track :confused: :confused:
You misunderstood me. The Moroso system will create a vacuum, not a pvc valve. A pcv does not have the volume to create a vacuum. At best a pcv will only get you to zero pressure at WOT, and that would have to be on an exceptionally sealed motor. A pcv works great on the street but has no use at the track. Your Moroso kit will work good at the track but I am not sure one way or the other if it will work on the street.
Pete
There must be a reason that no serious performance car at the track has a PCV system hooked up.. Many of the cars there use a similar system like I ordered... If you'd get better performance with with the PCV system - why isn't everybody using it at the track :confused: :confused:
You misunderstood me. The Moroso system will create a vacuum, not a pvc valve. A pcv does not have the volume to create a vacuum. At best a pcv will only get you to zero pressure at WOT, and that would have to be on an exceptionally sealed motor. A pcv works great on the street but has no use at the track. Your Moroso kit will work good at the track but I am not sure one way or the other if it will work on the street.
Pete
Race Director
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From: Living in the Hartland
Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (GrandSportC3)
Why not rig it up to run both, pcv when driving on the street then switch to the vac system when racing. If you have a breather you will get fumes coming out at idle if you do not have some vacuum, try pinching your pcv line off to see what I mean. Of course if essence of burnt oil is your preferred cologne then don't run the pcv for street driving.
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From: Lakeland, FL
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St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (Fevre)
Why not rig it up to run both, pcv when driving on the street then switch to the vac system when racing. If you have a breather you will get fumes coming out at idle if you do not have some vacuum, try pinching your pcv line off to see what I mean. Of course if essence of burnt oil is your preferred cologne then don't run the pcv for street driving.
Le Mans Master
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Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (GrandSportC3)
make sure your front crank seal is double sided because the single type is made to seal pressure from inside the crankcase will allow dirt to be drawn into the engine passed the seal. the best way to seal is to put the seal in backwards to act as a vacuum seal. also make sure you use rocker cover gaskets with metal in the center because the high vacuum can suck in the gaskets between the bolts :chevy
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Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Lakeland, FL
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St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (clem zahrobsky)
make sure your front crank seal is double sided because the single type is made to seal pressure from inside the crankcase will allow dirt to be drawn into the engine passed the seal. the best way to seal is to put the seal in backwards to act as a vacuum seal. also make sure you use rocker cover gaskets with metal in the center because the high vacuum can suck in the gaskets between the bolts :chevy
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From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (GrandSportC3)
GrandSport your doing the right thing. Although pvc is more about emissions of hydrocarbons and keeping the motor more oil leak free.
The amount of hot air drawn through a 3/8th inch tube at low vacuum WOT is miniscule.
I look at my setup and your drawing or venting more air through the K&N filtered breather than that little PVC. No way could the PVC suck enough to ever create an inch of vacuum with a big high flow breather on the valve cover. Then at it's lowest vacuum when the blowby is at it's highest. The beather is venting.
Those race setups like that Dragster you can actually see the clear tubes flowing white oil mist above 3500-4000 rpm
The amount of hot air drawn through a 3/8th inch tube at low vacuum WOT is miniscule.
I look at my setup and your drawing or venting more air through the K&N filtered breather than that little PVC. No way could the PVC suck enough to ever create an inch of vacuum with a big high flow breather on the valve cover. Then at it's lowest vacuum when the blowby is at it's highest. The beather is venting.
Those race setups like that Dragster you can actually see the clear tubes flowing white oil mist above 3500-4000 rpm
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Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (gkull)
I was going to say. When we first welded ours in on the S/C dragster. They didn't seem to work very well. So we were talking to some other racers in the pit's and they said angle and the depth of the tune in the collector are critical to get the max venturie effect. It's been a long time. But we placed it at near 45 deg to the collector and near the center of flow 8-10 inches after the 4 tubes merge.
Then you can get so much suction vacuum at high rpm WOT that it acually colapses to evacuation clear tubing. We ended up having to install a stretched out spring to hold the tube open.
:) I tried last night to do some good linelock burn out videos like yours! :( The digi camera i used goes into decible overload very easy so they sound hoarible
Then you can get so much suction vacuum at high rpm WOT that it acually colapses to evacuation clear tubing. We ended up having to install a stretched out spring to hold the tube open.
:) I tried last night to do some good linelock burn out videos like yours! :( The digi camera i used goes into decible overload very easy so they sound hoarible
Thread Starter
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From: Lakeland, FL
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St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (gkull)
GrandSport your doing the right thing. Although pvc is more about emissions of hydrocarbons and keeping the motor more oil leak free.
The amount of hot air drawn through a 3/8th inch tube at low vacuum WOT is miniscule.
I look at my setup and your drawing or venting more air through the K&N filtered breather than that little PVC. No way could the PVC suck enough to ever create an inch of vacuum with a big high flow breather on the valve cover. Then at it's lowest vacuum when the blowby is at it's highest. The beather is venting.
Those race setups like that Dragster you can actually see the clear tubes flowing white oil mist above 3500-4000 rpm
The amount of hot air drawn through a 3/8th inch tube at low vacuum WOT is miniscule.
I look at my setup and your drawing or venting more air through the K&N filtered breather than that little PVC. No way could the PVC suck enough to ever create an inch of vacuum with a big high flow breather on the valve cover. Then at it's lowest vacuum when the blowby is at it's highest. The beather is venting.
Those race setups like that Dragster you can actually see the clear tubes flowing white oil mist above 3500-4000 rpm
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Lakeland, FL
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St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (gkull)
I was going to say. When we first welded ours in on the S/C dragster. They didn't seem to work very well. So we were talking to some other racers in the pit's and they said angle and the depth of the tune in the collector are critical to get the max venturie effect. It's been a long time. But we placed it at near 45 deg to the collector and near the center of flow 8-10 inches after the 4 tubes merge.
Then you can get so much suction vacuum at high rpm WOT that it acually colapses to evacuation clear tubing. We ended up having to install a stretched out spring to hold the tube open.
:) I tried last night to do some good linelock burn out videos like yours! :( The digi camera i used goes into decible overload very easy so they sound hoarible
Then you can get so much suction vacuum at high rpm WOT that it acually colapses to evacuation clear tubing. We ended up having to install a stretched out spring to hold the tube open.
:) I tried last night to do some good linelock burn out videos like yours! :( The digi camera i used goes into decible overload very easy so they sound hoarible
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From: Reno Nevada
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Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (GrandSportC3)
the tune in the collector
I meant to say " the tube in the collector "
Yours and "BeachBums" 383 from the C-4 section which is a consistant 11.50 car do some impressive burnout posted videos.
My Buddy left his old 89 Vette wheels at my house after helped him install his new wider wheels. They were the 275/40/17 Goodyear KDW's or something like that. So I mounted the rears and did a couple of 100 mph rear tire line lock burnouts in a parking lot. I'm going to get a good cameraman and digi video camera and try again soon.
I meant to say " the tube in the collector "
Yours and "BeachBums" 383 from the C-4 section which is a consistant 11.50 car do some impressive burnout posted videos.
My Buddy left his old 89 Vette wheels at my house after helped him install his new wider wheels. They were the 275/40/17 Goodyear KDW's or something like that. So I mounted the rears and did a couple of 100 mph rear tire line lock burnouts in a parking lot. I'm going to get a good cameraman and digi video camera and try again soon.
Thread Starter
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From: Lakeland, FL
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St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (gkull)
the tune in the collector
I meant to say " the tube in the collector "
Yours and "BeachBums" 383 from the C-4 section which is a consistant 11.50 car do some impressive burnout posted videos.
My Buddy left his old 89 Vette wheels at my house after helped him install his new wider wheels. They were the 275/40/17 Goodyear KDW's or something like that. So I mounted the rears and did a couple of 100 mph rear tire line lock burnouts in a parking lot. I'm going to get a good cameraman and digi video camera and try again soon.
I meant to say " the tube in the collector "
Yours and "BeachBums" 383 from the C-4 section which is a consistant 11.50 car do some impressive burnout posted videos.
My Buddy left his old 89 Vette wheels at my house after helped him install his new wider wheels. They were the 275/40/17 Goodyear KDW's or something like that. So I mounted the rears and did a couple of 100 mph rear tire line lock burnouts in a parking lot. I'm going to get a good cameraman and digi video camera and try again soon.
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Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (clem zahrobsky)
also make sure you use rocker cover gaskets with metal in the center because the high vacuum can suck in the gaskets between the bolts :chevy
Thread Starter
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From: Lakeland, FL
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St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (63Banshee)
also make sure you use rocker cover gaskets with metal in the center because the high vacuum can suck in the gaskets between the bolts :chevy
I use rubber gaskets and adhere them to the valve covers using emblem adhesive. This helps keep them in place during installation as well. :thumbs:
I use rubber gaskets and adhere them to the valve covers using emblem adhesive. This helps keep them in place during installation as well. :thumbs:
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Orlando Florida
Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (GrandSportC3)
I'm running that same Moroso System on my car. It works fine on the street. I used #12 braided line, and Russell fittings for the evac.
later,
Joe
later,
Joe
Thread Starter
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St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (JoeC427)
I'm running that same Moroso System on my car. It works fine on the street. I used #12 braided line, and Russell fittings for the evac.
later,
Joe
later,
Joe
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 1999
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From: Silver Spring, Md.
Re: Just ordered a Crankcase evacuation system... (GrandSportC3)
Olivier, why not speak with Dave Bacher, owns early C3 known as "Bruiser", has bb with same evacuator as you've choosen. He's at http://www.tropiczoneracing.com
Another alternative would be to install a belt driven vacuum pump setup.
Another alternative would be to install a belt driven vacuum pump setup.