I've seen about 4 fairly "radical" big block single plane high rise 4bbl manifolds that are on the extreme edge of performance (and price). I wondered if anyone was using one? They are made by Brodix, Dart, Holley Strip Dominator, and Merlin. All are in the $300+ price range (except the Holley).

And before any street-driven Vette owner chimes in about "no low torque performance" and "made-for-high-RPM-use-only" and "not recommended for street use"...that's the plan :D

Dep



[Modified by Dep, 7:28 AM 11/17/2003]

 

Dep; Post more information on the combination you are going to build. What heads, 9.800 or 10.200 block, CI, RPM range you plan on running, 4150 or 4500 carb. All are good manifolds depending on what combination you are going to run them on.

 

Race type single plane intakes are very streetable with proper tuning. I used a Team G Dominator one on my 427 and my 540 and had great results even with only 3.36 gears. No lack of low end performance.

I've also used Holley Strip Dominators and Darts on the street and loved them.

I currently have an Edelbrock Super Victor (arguably about the biggest cast intake for a big block on the planet!) and it works fine. Of course I have a few cubes to help, but I only have 3.07 gears.

Give us more details and we can help more. Each has it's strengths.
If you can fit the Dart under the hood, it is probably the most universal "always works" one out there. It's been around forever and I'm sure the current crop of Edelbrocks were designed to surpass it, but it's pretty solid no matter what.

JIM

 

Dep,
Where are you racing, the Edens or Sheridan rd?????????????????????
...redvetracr

 

Pete: I really don't want to put all that info up. I just wanted to find out who else is using these manifolds and what they think about them based on real world race performance. I DO appreciate the offer for help, but I prefer actual vehicle useage over theoretical "best bet" predictions based only on numbers. The main reason I was asking is because I see claims for "ours is best" from all 4 makers and I wanted to sort out the advertising hype from fact.

427Hotrod: Perhaps my last sentence was unclear...what I am building will NOT be driven on the street...so I really don't want or need to TUNE them to force them to work for street use. What I need is the most efficient version for RACE use. "STREET" simply isn't in my vocabulary :) Under the hood...again...no worry whatsoever...I simply get out my trusty sawzall and poof...ANYTHING fits with the hood on :)
Pump gas...out of the question. I will be looking at close to 13-1 compression with what I have planned. VP racing fuel will be what I burn. I do like the way your engine/car looks, but my feeling is all that $$$$ to toot around on the street is one heck of a waste of money and power.

redvetracr: I assume you are kidding around :D As I've stated MANY times before, ALL my racing is done on the TRACK. Actually, I'll either be up in your state (Great Lakes Dragway in Union Grove) or in Joliet at Route 66 dragway.

Dep

 

The dart manifold got a great review in the archived thread that was scanned from an old Hot Rod magazine article. It made better low end (3000 RPM) torque than a high rise dual plane they had.

Question for you Dep. I found a low rise L88 intake on ebay for $190.00 and bought it even though I don't currently have a use for it. It sounded like a good deal so I'm shelving it in case I ever go to rectangular port heads. It looks in good shape overall but the question is this. The divider wall inside of the plenum is about 1/4" lower than the top of the carb flange. Is the divider typically even with the top of the carb flange or is it normal to have it a bit lower. I know it is a common way to increase high RPM flow by grinding down the divider wall up to an inch and I'm trying to figure out if this was modified or came this way originally.

 

Bruce: Chuck Harmon sent me info on the Dart manifold. A definite possibility.
Again...low end torque isn't my major concern :)

On your manifold...there never was a low rise L-88 manifold. What you have is the low rise manifold for the 1971 454/425 horse engine. The casting # is 3963569. I have one and the divider is only about 1/16 inch lower than the carb base. I can send you a picture of it to compare to your manifold if you want.

Dep



[Modified by Dep, 9:04 PM 11/16/2003]

 

Dep;

Being kind of general, what I have learned from experience is that the Dart is a very good manifold for under 500 CI engines. The Brodix would be a better choice over 500 CI. The Merlin manifold seems to be kind of finicky, works excellent on some combinations and not so good on others. My opinion is the Holley/Dorton manifold is not in the same league as the others.

Without getting into specifics, if the motor is under 500 inches I would use either the Dart or Edelbrock 454-R. If the motor is over 500 inches I would use the Brodix or the Super Victor.


Pete

 

I'm aware of that but it makes a nice bonus. Normally a manifold like that would sacrifce low end but this one may not. It seems to make great power across the band from what I've read.

No need on the pics, but thanks. Mine does look like it's more like 1/4" than 1/16". But I can't see that making a tremendous difference.

 

The Dart manifold DOES seem to be VERY tall. Brodix seems to be similar to the Edelbrock manifolds. More and more leaning towards the Dart. Even better because I can get it in combination with a head package from them ...

Thanks for the help guys!!!! :D

Dep




[Modified by Dep, 7:30 AM 11/17/2003]

 

Well Pete is pretty much on the money I believe. I can give you lots of info on different combinations in race environments, but each had a particular setup that required a different intake to work best. In one case, two 9000 rpm destroked 502's were built for NMCA racing. One had more radical work on the heads and always was up approx 20 hp over the other even though every other component was identical as you could make it. Same converter, cam, gears weight etc. But no matter what the one with more headwork was always faster with a Super Victor. the other preferred the Dart.

I can tell you that one of the smaller ones like a Team G can perform very well on a less than 500" engine with minor work. Serious porting will make them work pretty well on even 540's. Without it, it will run out of breath early. My Super Victor definitely likes a spacer just as Edelbrock said it would. Cylinder temps evened out to almost amazing with a 1" spacer, whereas without it, #2 is always cooler.

The Dart is still one of the most forgiving ones out there and can work on just about anything. Once you get over 500" or so it is out of it's league these days, but it can work well. Check out Steve B's 542" motor here on the Forum. He did very well with a basic Dart and some porting work even with that many cubes.

So to really make recommendations and give real world info, we're still going to need some from you. Otherwise it's "he said-she said" stuff and means nothing. Liek how many cubes are we talking? How much head? What RPM range? Nitrous? etc etc. It all drastically changes the process.

I'm with you on how much compromise has to be made when trying to build stupid HP levels on a street car. You have to make lots of choices that a race only setup just never has to deal with. But it sure is fun to be able to jump into anytime I want and go riding whether it is 10 am or 2am. I don't need a trailer or a support staff. I can fill up at any gas station and go out and get my "speed fix" anytime I want it!

I'm curious though..if it is a race only deal...why limit yourself to under 13.0 compression? If you're buying race gas anyway, there's no reason not to push it up near 15.0. The folks you're racing are! No reason to leave power on the table!


JIM

 

Any Idea if the Dart intake will fit under the L88 hood? Anyone have a part # on it?

As of now I'm leaning towards the Holley Strip Dominator, only because I know it will clear the hood.

 

Okay okay....here's the gory details ;)

It's a Huntsville Engine shortblock...Dart Big M block, 4.25 stroke, 6.535 rods, 12.8-1 36CC dome pistons. I will NOT be running a roller cam though. I plan on either the L-88 or ZL-1 cam...depending on what will fit without smashing valves. Head package would either be Dart or Brodix. But leaning towards Dart right now.

Their complete engine with Dart Pro 1 heads and roller cam puts out 820HP and turns at 3,000-7,000RPM. Mine will be somewhat less than that, but fairly close.

Dep
P.S. If you have the Summit Christmas catalog you can see the stuff on page 11.


[Modified by Dep, 9:38 PM 11/16/2003]

 

Corey: rectangular or oval port?

Dep

 

Curious - Why not a roller cam if you're spending all that money?

 

Rectangular, 118cc, 325CFM, 2.19 1.88 valves

 

Bruce: I'm an old curmudgeon...I am still NOT convinced roller cam is the way to go. Definitely NO roller rockers. Roller tip, yes.

Corey: part # for 4150 Holley is 41114000
For 4500 carb it's 41124000
Price from Summit" $349.95

Dep

 

Thanks man :thumbs:

 

Corey: There is no way a Dart intake will fit under an L-88 hood with a big block, a Victor Jr. won't and it is an inch shorter

Dep: If you are not convinced a roller cam is the way to go then you need to do some more research. If it were a street car I could see the possible argument of not going to a roller (for reliability issues) but for a race engine there is simply no doubt. Put a roller in it, a BIG one. You will leave at least 100 hp on the table with a L-88 or ZL-1 cam over a good race roller.

I also agree with Jim about the compression, 14.5 to 1 would be a good start.

 

Thanks, I guess that narrows me down the the Strip Dominator.

Anyone else running this intake besides Bence?