I JUST PURCHASED A CRANE CAMS XR-i POINTS REPLACEMENT SYSTEM TO INSTALL IN MY 1970 350/300 AUTO. HAS ANYONE INSTALLED THIS SYSTEM OR ONE LIKE IT AND WHAT WERE THE RESULTS IF ANY. DO I NEED TO INSTALL A BALLAST RESISTOR? TRYING TO RETAIN STOCK APPEARANCE.

 

Should be fairly easy. I did mine with a similar product last July. Ran alot better, but my points were getting old anyway. Good luck with the job :seeya

 

Put one in mine last year. No problems so far. Hook up was pretty simple. I just tapped into the wire with the white cloth sleeve as the directions hinted at. Some of the guys were saying to go back to the ignition on the fuse box, but that seemed like a lot of extra work. I did not use a balast on mine.

 

IMO I'd stick to points. Lars knows a hell of a lot more than me about distributors and ignitions, If he uses points, then I'm going to as well.

 

Installed the XRi last summer, no problems so far. Did not pull the distributor, hardest thing was fishing the wires through the gromet on the bottom of the distributor. If I were to do it again, I would pull the Distributor.

 

Stewart's right - I like points.
I've actually had the opportunity to do a bit of dyno testing out at Westech in L.A. in conjunction with Hot Rod magazine. I have real results and real numbers from back-to-back testing on engines with points and aftermarket replacement systems. Here are the results:

In dyno pulls from 3000 rpm through 6500 rpm on a 302 Ford, a 383 Chevy and a 502 Chevy equipped with points, PerTonix (including addition of the "Second Strike" system), Unilite and the Accel system, there was no difference. None. Absolutely nothing at all. Not a single horsepower difference as long as the timing remained the same. The electronic systems do not add any power or change driveability in any way. Absolutely not. I have persoanlly verified this with real numbers. The ONLY way that these systems will add anything at all is if your point system was incorrectly set up to begin with. They will not outperform a correctly set up point system, and they tend to be less reliable. If you have a good quality set of points (keeping in mind that ther ARE a lot of bad quality points available) with a good coil, I highly recommend retaining the points.

The ONLY system that we have seen a measurable level of performance improvement on is the MSD system. If you trigger an MSD with your POINTS and a good coil, there is about a 5-horse improvement across the rpm range. No other electronic conversion system will add any horsepower unless your points were bad to begin with.

The biggest improvement you can make to your point-style ignition system is to install a good coil, a good quality set of points, and to quicken up your advance curve to bring your full 36-degree total timing all in by 2500 rpm. Add a properly matched vacuum advance system, and you'll have an ignition system that will run cicles around anything else.

 

Okay Lars, the $64,000 question is where do we get the above parts and what do we ask for? (this is something I have been wanting to do ;) )

 

Nice to see "old school" points perform just as well as anything else. I run points, MSD box, and blaster coil. Sounds like I've got the 'hot' setup. :jester

The only advantage I see with the Crane XR-i is it has a built in rev limiter. Of course you can get a box with one too.

 

:iagree:

I have the same setup. A properly setup distributor by Lars and an MSD with blaster coil. :thumbs:

 

Lars,
My Ebay distributor has been cleaned up and is ready for spring with your kit and new points and condensor installed. I also now have a Sears advance timing light so first thing in April....Should be fun.

 

Paul -
Setup looks great - good job on that distributor work! Ldet me know how it all runs when you get it installed and set up.

Joey (lavetteman) -
Good to hear your setup is running well for you. You failed to mention that you're one of the guys who has actually removed an aftermarket electronic pointless conversion and gone back to points and realized a performance increase as a result...

 

Hi,
Good topic, if I may add my .02 worth.

I'm sure you young guy's (gals too), get tired of us old hot rodders giving, the "In the old days" comments, however here is another one.

"In the old days", we drove our '60's /'70's performance cars every day.
Trying to keep the ignition working well was always a challenge.

Lars is correct, a point (stock) system will work well when new. Put 10,000 miles of everyday driving and things don't work as well.

I'm not picking on Lars, just want to give a few "been there" comments.

Stock point ignition works well with new points and plugs.
(Goes down hill quickly in a high compression engine)

Stock point ignition (with a good coil - as Lars suggests) works much better.

Stock points with a "good" electronic box, producing a "good" voltage won't give you much (if any) more horsepower, HOWEVER gives you what we wanted in the "old days".
An engine that would crank out to 6,000+ rpm without breaking down, after 5-10K on the plugs.

The point (pun) of this post is to clarify that an electronic ignition may not add horsepower, however it will definitely extend the usable life of the sparkplugs and ensure the engine will perform up to max RPM even if you have been puttering around for several miles.

With old performance cars today getting limited use, it may not be an issue.

Thanks
Barry

 

Barry -
That's correct. Once the points wear, there is a power and performance loss from the out-of-tune condition. This degradation does not occur with an electrionic system. However, by using the points as a trigger for an MSD system, there is virtually no current flow through the points, and the points have an incredible lifespan with no change in dwell.

 

You guys forgot to mention that the MSD type boxes will help usually help with idle and even cover up some low rpm carb problems since there are multiple sparks occuring below 3000 rpm. This will burn the charge more completely and possibly reduce HC emissions, as well as help keep the plugs clean.

 

Good point Jerry. When I was doing some racing with the Vette "in the old days", I had the carb. much too rich.
At idle, if you were near the exhaust, it would bring tears to your eyes.

The TI ignition never skipped a beat.

 

This can get confusing! So if I go back to the points from a Pertronix I Ignitor, I need an MSD box?

 

I converted to a Mallory Unilite points conversion. I didn't do it to increase hp but for the reliability. I know that electronics can fail with no warning but I got tired of changing out points and felt the life of the electronics was such that it wasn't really an issue (in other words the electronics would outlive the vehicle). Points start going bad from the first minute they are used. I agree that a good set of points, WHEN NEW, will perform the same as the electronic conversion but I have had my conversion installed for three years with no issues and no degradation in performance. Also, horsepower may not have increased due to the conversion but my idle quality definitely increased. By the way, I am not an electronic conversion "bigot", I do carry an extra set of points in case the Unilite unexpectedly fails. Besides, the points are unaffected by EMP (Electromagentic Pulse).

 

Paul -
A standard set of points with a nicely curved distributor and a good coil produces an outstanding level of performance - unbeatable by any aftermarket electronic conversion. No need to add any other components, systems or parts. If you put a lot of miles on the car, you need to check and verify your dwell every 10,000 miles or so due to point contact wear. If you keep them in adjustment (and good quality points won't change much at all... I've had a set of Mallory 102 points in my 455 Judge for 10 years. Once a year I check the setup: It has never changed...) they will produce an outstanding level of performance.

If you want a slight upgrade from the point ignition system, you can keep the points and supplement the system with an MSD box. This produces the only measurable performance increase that I have ever seen on dyno results. As noted in a post above, the multi-spark action below 3000 rpm does, in fact, smooth out the idle a little, and it produces a slight improvement in throttle response off idle.

 

I tend to agree, over a year with no adjustments suits me just fine. I have enough stuff to fix with out messing with the timing all the time. Back in the day as us old timers like to say I had a 1971 340 Duster with a mallory dual point. I do not think there is a more accurate system, but I had to replace the points once a month. Besides if points are all that why are they not used anymore?

 

I guess we all agree to disagree on this one. In the spring I will let you know where I come down as I have both Pertronix and points distributors.