Cheap method for front ride height adjustment????
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
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St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Cheap method for front ride height adjustment????
I am a cheap bastard. I was thinking about a bubba's alternative to coil overs.
I was thinking of trying to modify a set of rear C3 air shocks to mount on the front. Adding air would increase height for everyday driving to clear the bumps and let all air out to get the car low for racing.
might there be air shocks available that match the front more closely and thus need less work to modify?
comments?
[Modified by turtlevette, 6:20 PM 3/4/2004]
I was thinking of trying to modify a set of rear C3 air shocks to mount on the front. Adding air would increase height for everyday driving to clear the bumps and let all air out to get the car low for racing.
might there be air shocks available that match the front more closely and thus need less work to modify?
comments?
[Modified by turtlevette, 6:20 PM 3/4/2004]
Race Director
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From: San Jose CA
Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (turtlevette)
How much adjustment do you think you could really get out of an air shock?
Wouldn't raising the car this way leave you with a really crappy ride?
-Steve
Wouldn't raising the car this way leave you with a really crappy ride?
-Steve
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (Pacin'California)
How much adjustment do you think you could really get out of an air shock?
-Steve
-Steve
Wouldn't raising the car this way leave you with a really crappy ride?
-Steve
-Steve
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From: San Jose CA
Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (turtlevette)
I don't have experience with driving an air shock car- it just seems to me putting that much pressure in it would cause tons of bound; no rebound control for the springs. Would make it very interesting to drive.
Of course, the front is a lot less squirrely in our cars than the rear. When I had bad shocks on my 78, the rear would give out quite easily when I introduced the fiberglass leaf spring. Fun. :eek:
Of course, the front is a lot less squirrely in our cars than the rear. When I had bad shocks on my 78, the rear would give out quite easily when I introduced the fiberglass leaf spring. Fun. :eek:
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (turtlevette)
more than you need. 2 or 3 inches. It will lift my 550s to get a little more clearance for everyday driving.
It could work Turtlevette. My wife's bonneville relies heavily on the air shocks to level the ride. I remember in the old days we used air shocks on the back to raise it for tire clearance.
Along with your 550 springs it would work.
NOw what about bump steer. A change of 2 inches in your front end will be at the very least .5 inch toe in maybe alot more. Tire wear would be great, might even get them to squeal driving down the road.
With your car you need to set a height and have it aligned at that height. Your camber and toe will not take adjustability.
It could work Turtlevette. My wife's bonneville relies heavily on the air shocks to level the ride. I remember in the old days we used air shocks on the back to raise it for tire clearance.
Along with your 550 springs it would work.
NOw what about bump steer. A change of 2 inches in your front end will be at the very least .5 inch toe in maybe alot more. Tire wear would be great, might even get them to squeal driving down the road.
With your car you need to set a height and have it aligned at that height. Your camber and toe will not take adjustability.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 1999
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From: WI
Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (turtlevette)
Adding air would increase height for everyday driving to clear the bumps and let all air out to get the car low for racing.
[Modified by turtlevette, 6:20 PM 3/4/2004]
[Modified by turtlevette, 6:20 PM 3/4/2004]
...redvetracr
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Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (norvalwilhelm)
norval,
again i am cheap and have not had my car professionally aligned for probably 15 years. Everytime i bring it in i get the BS song and dance about it needs this and that and the other thing before it can be aligned.... so i quit going.
As long as i have some negative camber and don't have toe-out i really don't care that much and with 500 tread wear rating tires for 60 bucks a piece, who cares about tire wear. I usually get tired of looking at the tires before i wear them out.
I thought i would get the welder out. mod the shock and just experiment with it. Sometimes i just think the 550 front springs are just too low for everyday driving although they are great for the track.
i would imagine that in the future all cars will have either air or hydraulic suspensions instead of steel or fiberglass springs.
again i am cheap and have not had my car professionally aligned for probably 15 years. Everytime i bring it in i get the BS song and dance about it needs this and that and the other thing before it can be aligned.... so i quit going.
As long as i have some negative camber and don't have toe-out i really don't care that much and with 500 tread wear rating tires for 60 bucks a piece, who cares about tire wear. I usually get tired of looking at the tires before i wear them out.
I thought i would get the welder out. mod the shock and just experiment with it. Sometimes i just think the 550 front springs are just too low for everyday driving although they are great for the track.
i would imagine that in the future all cars will have either air or hydraulic suspensions instead of steel or fiberglass springs.
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Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (redvetracr)
I may be wrong BUT don`t you think you need a working shock for racing???
...redvetracr
...redvetracr
i'll have to research it some more. I thought the hydraulic portion of the shock worked regardless of the air pressure in the shock but i may be totally confused about how they work.
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Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (norvalwilhelm)
I remember in the old days we used air shocks on the back to raise it for tire clearance.
Melting Slicks
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From: Boulder Creek California
Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (turtlevette)
How do F1 suspensions work these days? From reading "The Mechanic's Tale", they have fully active hydraulic suspensions, I don't remember if that refers just to the shocks or to the springs too.
Anyhow, I've considered this, but I've heard bad things about the handling ability of air shocks. If you find out otherwise, I'd be interested! How much are airshocks?
-Chris
Anyhow, I've considered this, but I've heard bad things about the handling ability of air shocks. If you find out otherwise, I'd be interested! How much are airshocks?
-Chris
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From: Quebec
Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (turtlevette)
I have a Caddy with rear air shock and here what I have noticed.
When you want to increase the height, you increase the pressure thus increasing the stiffness of the suspension. Let see if you put 550 spring to have a low setting with sport handling and then you jack it up with air pressure to gain ride height. What kind of total spring ratio would you get. I guess like a tank ride.
In a suspension with air shock, they usually match it with really soft springs. It works kind of the opposite way.
Stephan
When you want to increase the height, you increase the pressure thus increasing the stiffness of the suspension. Let see if you put 550 spring to have a low setting with sport handling and then you jack it up with air pressure to gain ride height. What kind of total spring ratio would you get. I guess like a tank ride.
In a suspension with air shock, they usually match it with really soft springs. It works kind of the opposite way.
Stephan
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Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (turtlevette)
Why don't you use hidden spring adjusters like the street stock circle track guys do. It wouldn't be as easy to adjust ride height as the air shock route but you could certainly use better shocks and that would be better for handling.
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Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (American Boy)
. I guess like a tank ride.
550s front and 5 leaf rear and i drive it every day. If that upsets the poodle so what?
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Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (burners)
Why don't you use hidden spring adjusters like the street stock circle track guys do. It wouldn't be as easy to adjust ride height as the air shock route but you could certainly use better shocks and that would be better for handling.
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From: Calif.
Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (turtlevette)
IDEA 1: Cut a coil off the top of your springs. Cost: $3 for a cutoff wheel. 1 Day. Front end alignment. THEN put your air shocks up front (If you must.:eek: )
IDEA 2: Ask someone with the Hollander interchange manual for Corvette to see what front spindles (other than Corvette) will swap into your car. Call suppliers of dropped spindles and ask them for a set of 2" drop spindles for your "'68 Biscayne" or whatever. Cost: "$200-$300. No way to raise at will though.
IDEA 2: Ask someone with the Hollander interchange manual for Corvette to see what front spindles (other than Corvette) will swap into your car. Call suppliers of dropped spindles and ask them for a set of 2" drop spindles for your "'68 Biscayne" or whatever. Cost: "$200-$300. No way to raise at will though.
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Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (turtlevette)
Why don't you use hidden spring adjusters like the street stock circle track guys do. It wouldn't be as easy to adjust ride height as the air shock route but you could certainly use better shocks and that would be better for handling.
you got any picts? I occasionally buy circle track mag but have not seen them. There's a good article on suspension in it this month BTW.
you got any picts? I occasionally buy circle track mag but have not seen them. There's a good article on suspension in it this month BTW.
Basically you have to move the shock to an outside the spring mounting for the front ends. You then have a bucket at the top that the spring sits in. The bucket has a large threaded rod going up out the top that goes through a nut welded to the frame the car, where the top shock mount used to be. When you turn the rod you can raise or lower the upper spring bucket and thus change ride height and also balance of the car. It's an easy setup, except you need to relocate the shock.
Burning Brakes
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From: "Too Low, Too Fast, Too Loud" TX
Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (BSeery)
Don't know what soft riding ricers you been around bro? But, the ricers I have seen are anything but soft....when the going down the street with they heads bobbin around like they in a chuck wagon going down the street...look like they driving an old pick up truck! BTW..caddies aint rice...JMHO.
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Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (American Boy)
In a suspension with air shock, they usually match it with really soft springs. It works kind of the opposite way.
Stephan
Park Ave. The springs are really soft to accomodate the air struts.
Not sure what kind of dynamics you would create with stiff springs and air.
Further, wouldn't lifting the front a couple of inches almost lift the spring
completely out of the seat ? My opinion is that the usable range of lift would
be severely limited due to the stiff spring and the small amount of
compression that it sees.
You can always try it ... but it won't end up being cheap if it doesn't work out.
You might consider air shocks that are intended for another vehicle.
I kjnow that the rear shocks in my 88 Grand Marquis have the threaded
rod at the top ... so you woudl only need to work out the lower mount.
How about the twist-in spring spacers. A couple of those on each side might
bring it up enough for daily driving, and they twist out with a wrench.
:seeya
Melting Slicks
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Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (NHvette)
This plan might actually work if you have VBP front and rear adjustable dual-mount springs. It would take a couple minutes, but you'd just have to switch to the softest setting and engage the air when you're going back on the street.
-Chris
-Chris
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Re: Cheap method for front ride height adjustment???? (turtlevette)
Here you go turtlevette, they sell for about $30 each. http://www.speedwaymotors.com (p/n 919-45551)
or http://www.colemanracing.com (p/n 19378)
They are a little different from a traditional weight jack. You don't have to modify the car for them to work but they aren't as easy to adjust as a weight jack.
or http://www.colemanracing.com (p/n 19378)
They are a little different from a traditional weight jack. You don't have to modify the car for them to work but they aren't as easy to adjust as a weight jack.