steering system sweep
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
Originally Posted by Twin_Turbo
Does anyone know how much sweep there is in the steering system from lock to lock? Both for manual & assisted?
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
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How to explain, I need the distance that the rod end travels from full left to right, only the linear component, arch is not needed. Easiest way to measure would be to steer to one side, then scribe a chalk mark on the ground directly below the tie rod end, then turn all the way to the other side, make a new mark and then measure the distance between those 2 points.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,874
Likes: 263
From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
Originally Posted by Twin_Turbo
How to explain, I need the distance that the rod end travels from full left to right, only the linear component, arch is not needed. Easiest way to measure would be to steer to one side, then scribe a chalk mark on the ground directly below the tie rod end, then turn all the way to the other side, make a new mark and then measure the distance between those 2 points.
will do tonight ... i will drop a line and weight (plumb bob) down to mark one location and then swing to other extreme, mark it and measure what componet do you want me to measure from? where the tie rod end attaches to the spindle arm? and will document with some photos so we are talking "apples to apples"
Edit: ok I reread your post i will do it at the drivers side tierod end to spindle connection from center of tie rod end... i will recheck the thread before i do this...figure around 9:30 fo the info...
Last edited by bobs77vet; Nov 10, 2004 at 05:07 PM.
Thread Starter
Race Director
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The easiest measurement would probably made on the spindle arm/steerin arm. It would be a great help if you could provide the info, I'm trying to get a front steering end take off rack but I don't want to get stuck with one that has too little sweep, a bit less sin't a problem but I do still want to be able to take a corner 
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,874
Likes: 263
From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
Originally Posted by Twin_Turbo
The easiest measurement would probably made on the spindle arm/steerin arm. It would be a great help if you could provide the info, I'm trying to get a front steering end take off rack but I don't want to get stuck with one that has too little sweep, a bit less sin't a problem but I do still want to be able to take a corner
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,874
Likes: 263
From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
Originally Posted by Twin_Turbo
That's the only measurement I need to select the proper rack, the only things of concern are sweep, eye to eye width & ratio.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,001
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From: Saginaw Michigan
Twinturbo,
You should get with MRVETTE. Gene went through the calculations to try and install a power end-take-off rack and pinion gear in his Vette (before he installed his own center-take-off rack and pinion. I provided him with some dimensional information on a number of rack and pinions used throughout the world. There weren't any that had sufficient stroke yet had a ball to ball distance that would allow tie rod lengths that would work in a C3.
The problem with a power end-take-off R&P is that first you have the inner tie rod pivot on the driver side. Then you have a distance (equivalent to the stroke) where the pinion engages the rack. Then you have to have a hydraulic seal. Then you have another distance somewhat larger than the stroke for the hydraulic assist chamber. Then another hydraulic seal. Finally you get to the passenger side inner tie rod pivot.
You should get with MRVETTE. Gene went through the calculations to try and install a power end-take-off rack and pinion gear in his Vette (before he installed his own center-take-off rack and pinion. I provided him with some dimensional information on a number of rack and pinions used throughout the world. There weren't any that had sufficient stroke yet had a ball to ball distance that would allow tie rod lengths that would work in a C3.
The problem with a power end-take-off R&P is that first you have the inner tie rod pivot on the driver side. Then you have a distance (equivalent to the stroke) where the pinion engages the rack. Then you have to have a hydraulic seal. Then you have another distance somewhat larger than the stroke for the hydraulic assist chamber. Then another hydraulic seal. Finally you get to the passenger side inner tie rod pivot.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
Yeh, I remember, Jim's right, I went all OVER junk yards nearby looking at anything that may work....thought I found one....Ford Taurus....think I posted about it, back when.....
but it was NO GO....too long, much too long....problems are..the steering input position is such that it was nearly impossible to route any input linkage that made any sense to me....as it is, I had to buy another set of headers, but I have only two universal joints in my input linkage....so life is simpler in ways....at any rate, the mounting of any ETO rack I found is much more difficult....now what went on, I can't say, as it's been a failed experiment from some years ago, all I can say is I thought the tie rod to tie rod ends was the same or nearly so as the '72, but it was not, as it all turned out......
I know some circle track cars use ETO racks in their setups....
and aftermarket companies make the racks....
but that information was later, after I found the '92 grand am rack, the same one that Idar Anderson from northern Eurpoe used in his conversion....his was from a Saab 900......
on this shore there is no cross from European part numbers, and so that is what had my stopped for about a year....concept/thinking stage....
GENE
but it was NO GO....too long, much too long....problems are..the steering input position is such that it was nearly impossible to route any input linkage that made any sense to me....as it is, I had to buy another set of headers, but I have only two universal joints in my input linkage....so life is simpler in ways....at any rate, the mounting of any ETO rack I found is much more difficult....now what went on, I can't say, as it's been a failed experiment from some years ago, all I can say is I thought the tie rod to tie rod ends was the same or nearly so as the '72, but it was not, as it all turned out......
I know some circle track cars use ETO racks in their setups....
and aftermarket companies make the racks....
but that information was later, after I found the '92 grand am rack, the same one that Idar Anderson from northern Eurpoe used in his conversion....his was from a Saab 900......
on this shore there is no cross from European part numbers, and so that is what had my stopped for about a year....concept/thinking stage....
GENE
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,727
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From: Fremont CA
Why not go with the Saginaw box from Corvette Steering Service. I just ordered mine today, watch out fellow autocross competitors, next year will bring out a FASTER "Green Meanie" The price is right at $675 with a Borgeson replacment steering shaft coupling included to take the "rag joint's" place. The kit has everything to "bolt-in" the box, including: hoses, Borgeson coupler, and the adapter to take the place of the control valve. Here's the link: http://www.corvettesteering.com/corvette%20parts.htm
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
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I don't want a box, it's still rear steering and that results in bump oversteer under deflection, I want a front steering ETO rack and I have been looking at race car racks, they can be had in sizes from around 16,5 eye to eye and up, that will fit your narrow cross shaft to cross shaft spacing for a 0 proper bump steer setup with the eyes in the correct position. Also, these racks can give up to 6" of sweep with all the ratios you could dream of, the assist cylinders are external and the servo is integrated in the input shaft, either bolt on or as part of the rack. They have dust boots so wear and tear won't be that much of a problem.
As for routing the input linkage, I do not mind cutting a hole in my crossmember, I have to modify that side to clear the dry sump pump anyway (RedVetRacer was correct, he said it wouldn't fit and it doesn't..I have too little adjustment for the pump, time to notch the crossmember)
Oh and Bob, thanks for the measurement that's exactly what I need...and I must say the results look promising, I was fearful that i t'd be like 8-9" or so but luckily it's not.
As for routing the input linkage, I do not mind cutting a hole in my crossmember, I have to modify that side to clear the dry sump pump anyway (RedVetRacer was correct, he said it wouldn't fit and it doesn't..I have too little adjustment for the pump, time to notch the crossmember)
Oh and Bob, thanks for the measurement that's exactly what I need...and I must say the results look promising, I was fearful that i t'd be like 8-9" or so but luckily it's not.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,727
Likes: 38
From: Fremont CA
You should look at Woodward steering racks then, they are some of the best being built. They also make a really nice collapsible steering column that I intend to put in my 63 BP Vette when I get around to building that project. here is a link:http://www.woodwardsteering.com/