Cheap Aluminum heads?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Coming home from Luckenbach Texas
The Summit "fuelie" heads have regular valve cover bolt locations -- "centerbolt" is a misprint. They also have a Vortec-style heart-shaped cumbustion chamber (not shown in the pic). And they accept standard intake manifolds, not Vortec.
They are also selling the Summit-brand Vortec-type head for those with Vortec intake and centerbolt valve covers (SUM-151124)...but basically I'd bet the combustion chamber in both heads is similar.
Also, isn't that opening in the center a heated crossover? If so, then the heads have it!
BTW: There's a set of the "fuelie" heads sitting on my workbench.
They are also selling the Summit-brand Vortec-type head for those with Vortec intake and centerbolt valve covers (SUM-151124)...but basically I'd bet the combustion chamber in both heads is similar.
Also, isn't that opening in the center a heated crossover? If so, then the heads have it!
BTW: There's a set of the "fuelie" heads sitting on my workbench.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,198
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From: Eastern Connecticut
If your TPI is stock, then don't bother getting killer heads. GM TPI runs out of breath by 4500 RPM. The aluminum vette heads are available new from GM, under $1000, but then you need the self aligning rockers, about $50 set and center bolt covers. I got a set of stock steel ones for free from the shop that rebuilt my motor. Joe
Le Mans Master
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From: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
Originally Posted by page62
.....
Also, isn't that opening in the center a heated crossover? If so, then the heads have it!...
Also, isn't that opening in the center a heated crossover? If so, then the heads have it!...
I'll just post what the Summit details call out in the product descriptions. And this crossover is a frequent pitfall of many C3 owners in cold climates that need a head that has the crossover. Without it the driver has to waite until intake is heated by transfer through bolts (intake is insulated by gaskets) for the divorced choke to work or even get a smooth idle. No EGR gas for emmissions testing either.
So what i'm trying to say is becareful and don't make a $1000 mistake on the wrong heads.
cardo0 
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
Thx.
Originally Posted by page62
Good point!!! I got my flashlight and checked...these ports go through. I can see an exhaust valve down there
BTW do u see Made in USA on them too?
cardo0
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Coming home from Luckenbach Texas
Did some more research. Here's what the "working" part of a Vortec head looks like:
Here's a non-Vortec (actual GM "fuelie") head:
The combustion chamber of the Summit "fuelie" head more closely resembles the Vortec design!
Here's a non-Vortec (actual GM "fuelie") head:
The combustion chamber of the Summit "fuelie" head more closely resembles the Vortec design!
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: NC,USA
Originally Posted by page62
Oops, sorry. Forgot to mention that. What's the problem with cast iron?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Coming home from Luckenbach Texas
I've already done Steeroids, the car's been desmogged, and the 200-4R tranny is lighter than the original. If I put aluminum heads (and headers) in there, the front end is gonna ride so high people are gonna think I'm a Lowrider! 
These heads will work fine without detonation issues...
These heads will work fine without detonation issues...
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Racer
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For tpi with Vortec heads, you will need the Scoggin-Dickey Vortec base (about $650.00, I think). Trick Flow 23* heads work very well with tpi. I think they have a set at Summit for just under $1000.00, but your better off getting the set with the dual valve springs for a bit more $. Stock tpi runs out of breath at 4500 rpm, but if you get a set of Edelbrock, SLP, or Arizona Speed & Marine runners, they will be siamesed (spelling?). Just open up a hole between adjoining cylinders equal to the area of the oppening in the runners and you make the runners part of the plenum instead of part of the port tuning. Now your tuned length is more like 10 inches instead of 27 inches. You are now talking about an induction system that will run strong to 6000-6500 rpm.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Living in the Hartland
Originally Posted by Russ Bellinis
For tpi with Vortec heads, you will need the Scoggin-Dickey Vortec base (about $650.00, I think). Trick Flow 23* heads work very well with tpi. I think they have a set at Summit for just under $1000.00, but your better off getting the set with the dual valve springs for a bit more $. Stock tpi runs out of breath at 4500 rpm, but if you get a set of Edelbrock, SLP, or Arizona Speed & Marine runners, they will be siamesed (spelling?). Just open up a hole between adjoining cylinders equal to the area of the oppening in the runners and you make the runners part of the plenum instead of part of the port tuning. Now your tuned length is more like 10 inches instead of 27 inches. You are now talking about an induction system that will run strong to 6000-6500 rpm.
http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/te...meseport.shtml
Race Director
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Originally Posted by ZD75blue
Weight... detonation... ability to run a higher compression with lower octane!
Yes but they are not necessarily advantages, well the weight is. The compression issue is commonly understood incorrectly, it's not that you can run a point higher compression, it's that you HAVE TO to keep the thermodynamic heat balance the same as with cast iron heads. On a cR where iron will not promote detonation the iron head makes more power than the alu one. However because the alu will run a point higher compression, the heat balance will be similar but the cylinder pressure higher, this gives you the ability to run a longer cam and still maintain adequate cylinder pressures at low rpm with the associated pumping loss of a longer cam, emaning you will retain more low end torque.
What it all boils down to is, for a street engine with a normal compression ratio that runs on pump gas and is not driven all out all the time the iron head is hard to beat.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Coming home from Luckenbach Texas
This might be informative:
http://www.chevytech.net/3c10o15.html
It's a table showing relative compression ratios for different head chamber sizes. The Corvette C4 (L98) heads can produce a whopping 11.6 CR
Even 67cc heads will produce 10.3:1 CR...pretty much the max for iron heads on pump gas.
Note, however, that other factors besides the metal used affect potential detonation. The other primary factor is the shape of the combustion chamber; ie, a Vortec-style chamber can be used at a higher CR than a "traditional" chamber. FYI: The L98 has a non-Vortec shaped chamber...
http://www.chevytech.net/3c10o15.html
It's a table showing relative compression ratios for different head chamber sizes. The Corvette C4 (L98) heads can produce a whopping 11.6 CR
Even 67cc heads will produce 10.3:1 CR...pretty much the max for iron heads on pump gas.Note, however, that other factors besides the metal used affect potential detonation. The other primary factor is the shape of the combustion chamber; ie, a Vortec-style chamber can be used at a higher CR than a "traditional" chamber. FYI: The L98 has a non-Vortec shaped chamber...
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: NC,USA
I agree with all thats been said about aluminum vs iron.
The bit that I'm after is the ability to run some smaller, modern chamber designs, while cutting off some serious weight. The TPI is something I've pondered, because of the price of gas, but seriously doubt that it would ever end up on the car. (K.I.S.S. principle!)
The ability to transfer heat, imo is a positive... as is the ability to weld up whatever damage might occure. Once I find a set of aluminum heads... or rather, when I build the motor the next time around, i'll purchase a set of heads that will be the last for this particular car.
The bit that I'm after is the ability to run some smaller, modern chamber designs, while cutting off some serious weight. The TPI is something I've pondered, because of the price of gas, but seriously doubt that it would ever end up on the car. (K.I.S.S. principle!)
The ability to transfer heat, imo is a positive... as is the ability to weld up whatever damage might occure. Once I find a set of aluminum heads... or rather, when I build the motor the next time around, i'll purchase a set of heads that will be the last for this particular car.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
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St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Originally Posted by Twin_Turbo
The compression issue is commonly understood incorrectly, it's not that you can run a point higher compression, it's that you HAVE TO to keep the thermodynamic heat balance the same as with cast iron heads. .
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,456
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From: Coming home from Luckenbach Texas
The Trick Flow heads got sold on ebay. Since I've done so much "weight loss" in the engine area already, I decided the extra weight savings of aluminum heads would make the front ride even higher. And cutting springs isn't on my short-term agenda.
Anyhow, with the Vortec-style chambers, the Summit/Iron Eagle heads are SWEET (and cheap)!
Anyhow, with the Vortec-style chambers, the Summit/Iron Eagle heads are SWEET (and cheap)!
