Beat Z06 Part II
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
It's not bashing, it's just calling is as I see it. You can't make claims and not back them up. You said the engine was new w/ onle a couple of thousand miles (don't remember exact # and too lame to look it up) but that sure looks like more grime than for that amount of miles. Hookers, Hedmans...doesn't change a thing in my opinion.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 315
Likes: 0
From: North Richland Hills TX
Originally Posted by Twin_Turbo
I am tempted to wave a huge BS flag here, I do not believe for 1 second that the claims made are legit. Looking at the thread where the engine pics are posted I see that a statement is made that the engine is new. Looking at it it doesn't appear new to me, it appears a 25 year old L48 or L82 with come Edelbrock E tec goodies on it and what looks like an rpm manifold. Headers look to be 1&5/8 primary hedmans (68300) painted headers. In fact, I'm pretty convinced it doesn't make 440 let alone 500Hp. 300 would be high if you ask me.
try harder...remember this everyone, this thread started out as a thrilled me telling the forum members a day that made me smile, the day I beat a Z06, and since, has turned into a rather childish, "No you don't have 440" battleground, or Texas Showdown to some...hehe...my offer still stands on the table to race for some $ to Buddman, bet if this is gonig to turn into grab your friends, turn on the NOS, and we'll show him, I'm not interested...I don't really want to damage my new engine...as I said, I know I can be beaten, but not by alot you see on the road everyday...thank you....P.S. Raise your B.S. flag high, cuzz I know what I have...you just sit back and ponder that...
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
Just the reaction alone confirms my suspicion, all hostility. If you don't want your claims to be questioned (not everybody believes everything they hear/read) then don't post it. Posting claims on a public medium like this means you could get a reply that you may not like. A lot of people talk about 400+ hp and it must grow on trees somewhere. To get that kind of power you need to do a meticulous buildup (on a 350), in my book that almost equals a detailed and clean engine.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 6
From: FRANKLIN GA
Awww... Give him the benefit of the doubt TT, I've seen plenty of junky, grimy, slimy looking motors at the strip that will run like h*ll.
Mine ain't exactly the cleanest looking motor on the forum, neither is my vette, but I KNOW what it will do.
Only way I see to prove it is put it on the track.
Mine ain't exactly the cleanest looking motor on the forum, neither is my vette, but I KNOW what it will do.
Only way I see to prove it is put it on the track.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 315
Likes: 0
From: North Richland Hills TX
Originally Posted by Twin_Turbo
Just the reaction alone confirms my suspicion, all hostility. If you don't want your claims to be questioned (not everybody believes everything they hear/read) then don't post it. Posting claims on a public medium like this means you could get a reply that you may not like. A lot of people talk about 400+ hp and it must grow on trees somewhere. To get that kind of power you need to do a meticulous buildup (on a 350), in my book that almost equals a detailed and clean engine.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 6,938
Likes: 1
From: San Diego CA
As I am in Maryland for Christmas with my family I bought a few car mags to read. One, the latest edition of SC has some mouse builds and their 350 mule goes thru 8 cam/ head/ induction changes and ranges from 300 to almost 600hp. Now with that said 440hp obviously can be done but keep in mind these magazine writers have access to the most expensive diagnostic equipment, hundreds of thousands of dollars of hi-performance gear just sitting around and most importantly the top engine builders in America at thier disposal. Most of us buy Eldebrock or some such brand matched components hoping their claim of 425hp for the Performer RPM package comes true and most find themselves at 280-350hp @ THE CRANK. Many people go the crate engine route and professionals build those motors such as GM's ZZ4 or AR with a claimed AR-383 425HP@5600RPM and again the dyno results are much less. So given we see dyno's posted on here monthly where a 400hp block is really just over 300hp you can sort of see why TwinTurbo has his doubt's, especially when no dyno sheet has been provided. My .02
David
David
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Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 492
Likes: 0
From: Burlington Ky
C'mon Buck, it's all in fun.
But I do have to ask since you've mentioned it so many times, just what DO you have in your engine? Stroked, cam, pistons, bottom end, heads?
They can tell because certain induction and exhaust components will only allow so much air (and therefore fuel) into and out of your engine. Air/fuel/ displacement+volumetric efficiency = power. That's not someone's opinion, that's just physics. I think that they are saying that if you were at 500hp with the components seen in the photos, you'd be melting pistons or something. I do know that 425 at the flywheel is pushing the limits of being streetable in a carbed 350. Much over that is getting into dedicated drag car stuff. 1 hp per cube is a decent number on average.
But I do have to ask since you've mentioned it so many times, just what DO you have in your engine? Stroked, cam, pistons, bottom end, heads?
They can tell because certain induction and exhaust components will only allow so much air (and therefore fuel) into and out of your engine. Air/fuel/ displacement+volumetric efficiency = power. That's not someone's opinion, that's just physics. I think that they are saying that if you were at 500hp with the components seen in the photos, you'd be melting pistons or something. I do know that 425 at the flywheel is pushing the limits of being streetable in a carbed 350. Much over that is getting into dedicated drag car stuff. 1 hp per cube is a decent number on average.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 315
Likes: 0
From: North Richland Hills TX
Originally Posted by Cali,68,L-79
As I am in Maryland for Christmas with my family I bought a few car mags to read. One, the latest edition of SC has some mouse builds and their 350 mule goes thru 8 cam/ head/ induction changes and ranges from 300 to almost 600hp. Now with that said 440hp obviously can be done but keep in mind these magazine writers have access to the most expensive diagnostic equipment, hundreds of thousands of dollars of hi-performance gear just sitting around and most importantly the top engine builders in America at thier disposal. Most of us buy Eldebrock or some such brand matched components hoping their claim of 425hp for the Performer RPM package comes true and most find themselves at 280-350hp @ THE CRANK. Many people go the crate engine route and professionals build those motors such as GM's ZZ4 or AR with a claimed AR-383 425HP@5600RPM and again the dyno results are much less. So given we see dyno's posted on here monthly where a 400hp block is really just over 300hp you can sort of see why TwinTurbo has his doubt's, especially when no dyno sheet has been provided. My .02
David
David
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,659
Likes: 7
From: Katy (Houston) TX
CI 7-8 Veteran
Joe, what you're forgetting is that you can say anything you want. But if you can't back it up, it's meaningless. None of us know you personally so don't get offended if we don't believe claims that haven't been backed up. For all we know, you could be a 13 yr old kid typing on his dad's computer. If you speak the truth, then just post a timeslip, dyno run, or something credible and then nobody can doubt you. I believe your claims are possible, my motor is roughly in that category (415hp/515lb-ft) but it isn't easy to pull off that kind of power in a smallblock. Especially a daily driver. I sure as heck wouldn't want to drive mine around every day in traffic. If you don't have any timeslips or can't find a dyno graph then post the parts that are in your engine. There are guys here that can guess within 15hp exactly what you're making just by the components.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 6,938
Likes: 1
From: San Diego CA
Originally Posted by EDDIEJ82
Hush Cali...Your motors way to clean to count 
Just funning
Just funning
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 30,183
Likes: 313
From: Lake Norman NC
Flywheel hp numbers and REAR wheel hp numbers are two different things. 319rwhp is very respectable, and will definitely get you down the road fast in a street car...Your engine puts out 440hp at the crank, say we account at least 20% loss through the drivetrain and rwhp translate to about 352rwhp..at the most.. 
The only doubt I have with your numbers is your bragging and failure to keep your story straight.
The only doubt I have with your numbers is your bragging and failure to keep your story straight.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 6
From: FRANKLIN GA
Originally Posted by Cali,68,L-79
Thanks Eddie but it won't be when I get back. I need to find a way to bag/ cover the engine so I can sand the firewall and add fiberglass filler and get the surface to a smooth paintable surface. Right now it's gloss black over a rough broken fiberglass matte. When the car goes in for paint I want to have the inner doors, underside of the rear deck lid, and the firewall and drip rails painted along with the outside bosy of course. Mostly I do not want to get all that sand/ paint on the engine which you can just about eat off of.
Man...You must spit shine that thing everyday to keep it that clean. PAINT??? what's wrong with with the paint? Looks good to me
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
Since when is questioning a claim the same as an attack? I will admit I have not thoroughly read your post about your engine, the fact that someone that does engines for a living escaped me as I just scanned over the message. My observation still stands, I can not see a fresh motor 'looking like that. Not saying you can't run an engine like you want it, I know not everyone is interested in looks.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,676
Likes: 201
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
Just take the car to a chassis dyno or race Budman or both.
If it is anywhere near 350RWHP or you turn low 13's high 12's at the dragstrip then personally I will be very impressed and I will believe it is possible you shut down a stock Z06
If it is anywhere near 350RWHP or you turn low 13's high 12's at the dragstrip then personally I will be very impressed and I will believe it is possible you shut down a stock Z06
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,165
Likes: 950
From: Keizer Oregon
Just for my .02 and a little different veiwpoint...... I recently put an AR racing 383 stroker in my 76.......(Whether or not it actually dynos at 440hp is another story). Either way with my 4-speed and 3:50ish gears my car is pretty darn fast.....However I doubt i could beat a Z06 because I cannot put the power to the ground with my 255 rear tires. Ar full throttle in first gear there is nothing but tire smoke!!!! 2nd gear as well. makes for a great show but not great 60ft times
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,078
Likes: 7
From: DFW TX
Cruise-In VII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '07
Originally Posted by Joe Buck
I re-read this again and it amazes me the ammount of trash talking that goes on here...hehe, you do whatever helps you sleep at night TURBO. So, what your saying is that an engine has to look clean to make Horsepower...I see, well, I know of about 100 people, including my 94 Mazda Protege that would disagree w/ you on that. Another thing, I am really surprised that some of the, or what I thoguht would be "superior mechanics" cannot tell what I have in my car just by looking. I know the pic ain't the best, but please, try harder...remember this everyone, this thread started out as a thrilled me telling the forum members a day that made me smile, the day I beat a Z06, and since, has turned into a rather childish, "No you don't have 440" battleground, or Texas Showdown to some...hehe...my offer still stands on the table to race for some $ to Buddman, bet if this is gonig to turn into grab your friends, turn on the NOS, and we'll show him, I'm not interested...I don't really want to damage my new engine...as I said, I know I can be beaten, but not by alot you see on the road everyday...thank you....
P.S. Raise your B.S. flag high, cuzz I know what I have...you just sit back and ponder that...
try harder...remember this everyone, this thread started out as a thrilled me telling the forum members a day that made me smile, the day I beat a Z06, and since, has turned into a rather childish, "No you don't have 440" battleground, or Texas Showdown to some...hehe...my offer still stands on the table to race for some $ to Buddman, bet if this is gonig to turn into grab your friends, turn on the NOS, and we'll show him, I'm not interested...I don't really want to damage my new engine...as I said, I know I can be beaten, but not by alot you see on the road everyday...thank you....P.S. Raise your B.S. flag high, cuzz I know what I have...you just sit back and ponder that...