Help! My problem is back!
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,605
Likes: 2
From: Latrobe PA
Help! My problem is back!
Here we go again. Car will not start but same story, the gauges work, battery is BRAND new.
So far I had a new ignition with new keys and alternator installed. The problem returned. Took it to an auto electric shop and had a diagnostic check. They told me everything is OK but that the battery was bad so I replaced the battery.
Everything was great for 10 days. I went to start today and same problem again. Gauges work, radio and horn work, but it will not start!
The starter does not even make a sound.
I am totally confused and have tried everything.
Can anybody offer and suggestions. I'm going crazy! It's a 91 6 speed.
Thanks,
Keith
So far I had a new ignition with new keys and alternator installed. The problem returned. Took it to an auto electric shop and had a diagnostic check. They told me everything is OK but that the battery was bad so I replaced the battery.
Everything was great for 10 days. I went to start today and same problem again. Gauges work, radio and horn work, but it will not start!
The starter does not even make a sound.
I am totally confused and have tried everything.
Can anybody offer and suggestions. I'm going crazy! It's a 91 6 speed.
Thanks,
Keith
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,421
Likes: 8
From: Lake Mary Florida
What's the possibility it is in the starter?
I'm dealing with a possible starter problem right now, except it usually just clicks when I hit the start but will start after that. But that is a possibility.
I'm dealing with a possible starter problem right now, except it usually just clicks when I hit the start but will start after that. But that is a possibility.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,605
Likes: 2
From: Latrobe PA
The shop told me that they are not able to see any problems with the starter but at the time I had a scan it was not acting up. They told me the only way to catch the problem is to bring it in which means another tow.
I just went out about an hour ago and this time it started.
This has be baffled!!
I just went out about an hour ago and this time it started.
This has be baffled!!
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Drifting
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,522
Likes: 0
Sounds like its a VATS issue.
Vats won't let the car start unless it reads the correct number from the key. You must wait 10 minutes between attempts once the vats limit has been hit, before vats will allow you another chance to start the car. (I can't remember what the limit of attempts is). If you try to start the car between that time, it just resets the 10 minutes.
If vats in stopping you from starting the car, thats the symptoms you should expect. Your voltage will be fine, but vats wont allow the start to engage, and you wont hear it click.
Vats won't let the car start unless it reads the correct number from the key. You must wait 10 minutes between attempts once the vats limit has been hit, before vats will allow you another chance to start the car. (I can't remember what the limit of attempts is). If you try to start the car between that time, it just resets the 10 minutes.
If vats in stopping you from starting the car, thats the symptoms you should expect. Your voltage will be fine, but vats wont allow the start to engage, and you wont hear it click.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,408
Likes: 3
From: Bel Air Md
does sound like VATS. If you wait about 15 min or so, or disconnect the battery for a couple minutes, and then it starts, it's probably VATS. When it won't start, turn on your headlights and turn the key and try to start the engine. If the lights dim or go out, its a battery, If they don't change, it's another sign that it may be VATS. Mid America sells a by-pass for the system.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,421
Likes: 8
From: Lake Mary Florida
I agree with the 10 minute rule. To isolate UTD wait ten minutes with the key out of the ignition next time it happens. If it starts up after 10 minutes then you pretty much know it is in the UTD system. Otherwise it would be elsewhere, perhaps the starter.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
Likes: 30
From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
When it won't crank, unplug the clutch safety switch (gear selector sw if automatic) and jump the socket. Connect a voltmeter from the jumper to ground and try a crank. If you get 12v but no cranking, then you have a starter problem. If you don't get 12v in the crank position, then you have to find why 12v isn't getting to the jumper. Here's the path: battery through fusible link to firewall connector to ign sw to start enable relay contacts to clutch safety sw. You can also test the starter by jumping 12v to the clutch safety sw jumper, the starter should crank. You can determine the state of charge in your battery by measuring the battery terminal voltage. 12.9 volts and higher, fully charged. 12.0 volts and lower, discharged and linear in between. Also, if you measure the battery terminal voltage during cranking, the voltage should not fall below 9.0 volts or the battery is discharged, battery cable connection is poor, or the battery is at the end of its life.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,605
Likes: 2
From: Latrobe PA
Thanks JFB.
I will print this up and have my mechanic take a stab at it.
Thanks everybody for your help. I will keep an update.
By the way, Don't beat up on the Steelers too bad this Sunday!!
I will print this up and have my mechanic take a stab at it.
Thanks everybody for your help. I will keep an update.
By the way, Don't beat up on the Steelers too bad this Sunday!!
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
Likes: 30
From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
When it won't crank, be sure to wait 6 minutes before you try my diagnostic method because if your ign tumbler isn't making good connection to your pellet, then VATS will not allow a crank for 6 minutes and you will not see 12v on the clutch sw jumper.
My diagnostic is based on your new ign tumbler making good connection to your pellet.
My diagnostic is based on your new ign tumbler making good connection to your pellet.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
From: Sayreville New Jersey
Photoguy, keep us posted on progress. I especially am interested as you know I am experiencing a similar problem. Planning on searching out an auto/electrical/Corvette guru in Central NJ. Anybody know one?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 805
Likes: 3
From: Okeechobee FL
Starter Relay
There is also a bank of Relays under the drivers' side of the dash on the left side of the steering column (on my 1990). One of these Relays is for the VATS Starter Disable. They can get weak over time. I had the same problem as you and I replaced this Relay. It solved my problem, but I decided to bypass it also. I called Gordon Killebrew and he told me the steps. I posted them about 2 months back. Good Luck - VATS can break your heart!
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
Likes: 30
From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
If you disable VATS, your vette is now up for an easy steal!!!!!!!!!!
The person I bought my 87 from bought a 90 and one day they came out of work to find the drivers window gone and the steering column broken out, but the vette hadn't budged an inch. 99% of car thefts are done by bashing the column and jumping the ignition. About 6 years ago my 87 left me stranded at church and I clipped a resistor in place of the ign contacts which allowed me to drive it until I could get a new ign tumbler installed which has new contacts. I have had no trouble since and I drive my 87 every day. I recommend you keep your cars in good repair.
What I don't understand about you guys is that you put up with unreliable starting until you get so frustrated you permanently bypass VATS instead of fixing it and maintain the protection that VATS allows.
Yes I know VATS can be defeated, but the majority of car thefts are done by dufi that think they are so smart they can jump the ign after a quick break in and busting the steering column. If your headlight goes out, do you epoxy a flashlight onto the hood?
The person I bought my 87 from bought a 90 and one day they came out of work to find the drivers window gone and the steering column broken out, but the vette hadn't budged an inch. 99% of car thefts are done by bashing the column and jumping the ignition. About 6 years ago my 87 left me stranded at church and I clipped a resistor in place of the ign contacts which allowed me to drive it until I could get a new ign tumbler installed which has new contacts. I have had no trouble since and I drive my 87 every day. I recommend you keep your cars in good repair.
What I don't understand about you guys is that you put up with unreliable starting until you get so frustrated you permanently bypass VATS instead of fixing it and maintain the protection that VATS allows.
Yes I know VATS can be defeated, but the majority of car thefts are done by dufi that think they are so smart they can jump the ign after a quick break in and busting the steering column. If your headlight goes out, do you epoxy a flashlight onto the hood?
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 171
Likes: 19
Originally Posted by photoguy
Here we go again. Car will not start but same story, the gauges work, battery is BRAND new.
So far I had a new ignition with new keys and alternator installed. The problem returned. Took it to an auto electric shop and had a diagnostic check. They told me everything is OK but that the battery was bad so I replaced the battery.
Everything was great for 10 days. I went to start today and same problem again. Gauges work, radio and horn work, but it will not start!
The starter does not even make a sound.
I am totally confused and have tried everything.
Can anybody offer and suggestions. I'm going crazy! It's a 91 6 speed.
Thanks,
Keith
So far I had a new ignition with new keys and alternator installed. The problem returned. Took it to an auto electric shop and had a diagnostic check. They told me everything is OK but that the battery was bad so I replaced the battery.
Everything was great for 10 days. I went to start today and same problem again. Gauges work, radio and horn work, but it will not start!
The starter does not even make a sound.
I am totally confused and have tried everything.
Can anybody offer and suggestions. I'm going crazy! It's a 91 6 speed.
Thanks,
Keith
Have you checked the battery connectrions on both the battery and where they connect to the relay and ground? they must be REALLY CLEAN I have seen poor connections raise their ugly heads with only a change in temperature from summer to fall seasons and have similar symptions. Hope this is your cure. Don