I look around on the site and I see various jokes made on the cheap mods. I dont think thats always about hp with these mods so I dont see a total waste. Like....

K&N filter dyno test showed that no difference between a stock filter and a performance filter as far as hp. But does it get better gas mileage cause it does flow more cfm than a stock. Does this subside the fuel/air ratio? Maybe it will pick up a 1mpg and save you some bucks. Plus being cleanable you can regularly keep it clean unlike the paper. I think its a ok buy , it would be great if you got some hp thou.
Any truth to the rumor that the K&N helps alot more at upper speeds?

The 160 thermostat and tb bypass, very lil gains but very cheap to thave. People have shown a cooler temp regardless of performance. To mean lower temp is healthier for a engine. Even if its only a degree cause heat breaks down a engine and parts. I see this as a great mod cause for under $20 you can keep your engine healthier.
The Bypass I think is a ok mod hot coolant running thru a TB to keep it from sticking.But in temps above 30 degrees why have it? Our cars thrive on cool air and this isnt cooling it or helping in that fight. Plus you can make this with spare parts in the garage.
Am I wrong is there a down side? Inputs?

Some mods arent about hp all the time. We are all on the quest for more power but why not enjoy the small perks that come with other mods or myth mods.

Any other thoughts or add ons?

 

The K&N will flow slightly more air than the stock AC Delco paper filter. That's because it's slightly less restrictive (if both are clean). The AC Delco does a better job of filtering because it's more restrictive. You will see no difference between the two at the dyno or dragstrip on a stock LT1. The K&N can be re-used, but it must be maintained periodically, and this must be done correctly. Too much oil will kill the MAF sensor. I prefer the stock AC Delco paper filter. Your car, you choose.

I fully agree about the 160 'stat, in combination with lower fan on/off settings. Keeping engine (and underhood) temps below 200*F is, in my opinion, a good thing. I like having some headroom in my cooling system before Really Bad Things begin to occur, and hoses, seals, gaskets, etc will probably also benefit from the lowered temps. In terms of performance, there's a trade-off between getting a denser air/fuel charge into the cylinders (more power) vs lower thermal efficiency (more heat loss into heads/cylinders, etc = less power), so performance gain/loss is debatable. I'm not aware that anyone's ever done a controlled test of this.

Re: Throttle body bypass -- IMHO not worth the effort as far as performance gain (minimal) on a street driver, but others like the idea.

Agreed.

Be well,

SJW

 

I did the K&N as it came with my SLP ram-air setup. So far I've only over oiled once and yes it cost me a MAF.

I've seen definite benefit from the 160deg T-stat in trap speed, though these days I exclusively bracket race so do not do much "tuning".

Anoter cheap mod is the cut back spark plugs; again I've seen a .8 mph gain in trap speed, normalized for weather.

Though I saw no power gain from the TB coolant bypass mod, it makes removing the intake a little simpler so is a worthy mod, IMO.

So indeed there are a few "cheap mods" that do work along with the many that seem to add no power or other benefit.

 

K&N: been said and repeated 1000 times....
160*: Noted gm/vette engrs have stated that the opt performance range for the 350/L98 is between 200-220*, so why go lower is my take on it... but again up to the individual
TB by-pass: again, cool air is always better, since these engines need to breath, cool, and i don't drive in snow anyway.

 

Again its the other benefits of the mods not the power.

 

Think about what you are saying.

If the K&N allowed for more air in, to keep the right AFR, the computer would need to dump more fuel in, not "subside it". Therefore you would effectively decrease MPG IF anything...

 

I have done all of those, plus more just for 'bling'. 160* stat and reprogrammed fans because I want it to run cooler here in the hot south, T/B by-pass because on the 95/96 models it is super easy and eliminates two possible leak points, SLP 'claw' for appearance, etc.
And I did NOT do an airfoil, no reason to do that one.

 

that's not increasing power and mpg works... do a little research.

 

Ok, I never said it was increasing power...

I only responded to what he said,

Furthermore, what does "mpg works" even mean?

 

sorry, i was watching a great movie and surfing my laptop at the same time... and responding to your unsupported statement that i think is incorrect (and i would love to see some factual data either way). it was a typo and should have said "that's not HOW increasing" blah blah blah...

in my opinion, let's say that a mod increases the available air flow at 2000RPM, and allows the engine to make more WOT power at that 2000RPM level... after increasing the fuel levels to maintain the proper air/fuel ratio. let's also say that before performing the mod, the engine had to make 2000RPM level in order to achieve 60MPH and we'll say that it required a 25% throttle level to maintain 60MPH. now that the car can reach and maintain that same 60MPH at at a slightly lower throttle level because of increased available HP, it should actually increase the gas mileage.

at least in my mind... prove me wrong. maybe one of the knowledgeable "theory" guys can jump in?


sonny

 

Well fuel economy is (mostly) based on part throttle and closed loop mode operation, which doesn't take much air/fuel flow, so the stock filter should be fine.

When you go to WOT the engine WILL draw a lot more air, so possibly the stock filter is restrictive. Since I do not know the flow values for it I cannot say for sure.

Certainly the K&N and cut air filter lid adds around 10chp for the L98 but I don't know if anyone has data on stock and cut lid??

 

The K&Ns have much LESS surface area (less pleats) than paper yet claim to flow MORE air.

Something's gotta give. It doesn't filter as well.

 

i don't understand the premise of the subject line of this thread. "deeper" than hp? the mods we're talking about are quite the opposite.

hp trumps, so mods to feel good about your personality or get you 1 chp are not "deeper", they're shallower.

 

Remember that we are all smarter than the engineers who designed these cars.
When my stock 95 six speed can go 13.07@108, I think they did something right.
That being said, I do have the K&N, the SLP Claw, even the airfoil(it was free) and the 160 t-stat. Haven't had a chance to take it to the track yet, but in all honesty, I'm not expecting much.

 

I'm no knowledgable theory guy. But I think you are thinking about this wrong. Even if you used less throttle opening to maintain a 60mph cruise, you'd still be letting the same amount of air in. Thus the engine would be putting the same amount of fuel in, since you are operating in closed loop and the engine is trying to get the O2s perfect.

Basically it takes x amount of power to maintain a 60mph cruise. It takes a certain amount of fuel to make that power. I don't think you can get around that unless you change the amount of power needed (reducing losses like aero increases, smaller tires, etc).

I do think exhaust can improve economy because it actually makes x amount of fuel consumed deliver more useable power, because less power is expended on forcing exhaust out of the engine.

My personal experience is that exhaust has made small improvements to economy assuming you drive for economy. Though generally a good sounding exhaust causes me to hit the gas more just to hear it...

 

Even though it's poorly written, I know what you are trying to convey.
If there is a flaw in your thinking, it is this:
Reducing operating temperatures is not necessarily beneficial to an internal combustion engine. An electric motor, yes, but not a gasoline engine. As someone has already pointed out, there are optimum temps for every engine. Go above it and you risk efficiency, go below it and you risk the same.
The steel, iron, and aluminum main components in our engines have melting points well above 1000 degrees F. (approx.1200degrees for aluminum, which has the lowest melting point). They maintain adequate strength up well past 400 degrees. So, how does lowering coolant temps from 190 to 170 make an engine healthier? It could only make it "healthier" if the 190 temps were harmful, and they are not.

That would be tantamount to saying that lowering the temperature in your house this summer from 75 degrees to 74 degrees will make you healthier....when in actuality it won't make any difference.

You are right in one respect. It does go deeper than horsepower; it also concerns "driveability". Most of the mods you mention, and that are cheap and popular, simply decrease the driveability of your car without, as you said, improving power.
The automotive engineers are generally smarter than we are about how to make an engine run well....although we like to think otherwise.

Larry
code5coupe

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I ain't easily impressed....

 

which is why i'm a proponent to leave most of the cheap stupid do-nothing mods alone. the only thing i ever did in this arena was change the t-stat from 195 to 180 and chip reprogrammed accordingly. when i bougt it from the previous owner, temps in summer at stop light ran up to about 230 (normal). i don't like that normal range, so i lowered it to 205 max temp under normal mid-summer conditions on the street. there is little to argue with there.

what the engineers did fall short on was the output power itself; 250chp (L98) that cuts off at 4400 rpm is a semi-joke and is inadequate. just MHO. they could have done much better and they know it. the exhaust and the intake flat-out sucked in stock form. that's why i consider myself smarter than them, and had the whole damn thing fixed

 

No. If a mod makes the motor more efficient at cruising RPMS, (in this example, by reducing pumping losses), it will get better fuel economy. The HP required to overcome drag at 60 mph is a certain amount. Your modded motor is more efficient and will require less fuel to make that hp.

 

Any mod to lower temps under the hood would be a benefit. After I bought my 94, I found that almost everything rubber or plastic under the hood was brittle. I don't remember that being an issue on any other cars I've had.

 

It certainly would.

But a 160 stat doesn't lower underhood temps, it lowers coolant temps.
How does it do this?
By enabling the radiator to loose more engine heat than normal.
Where does this increased hot air from the radiator end up?
In the engine compartment.

(Instead of keeping the heat in the engine's mass, its released via the rad...either way, it still ends up under the hood. I.e. the engine is still producing the same amount of BTU's, some of those BTU's are just being released through convection rather than through radiation)

Sorry, no soup for you. (but nice try...)

Larry
code5coupe

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