- what is the general opinion ?

- is anyone using it in his ingine ?

- what parts can you find in titanium for your LT1 ?

- what are the average priceses for the various parts like con rods, valve springs etc



....

 

They are very expensive and out of my price range. If you want to shop goto Summitracing.com to look around.

 

I work on titanium aircraft parts every day; machine it, weld it, chemical mill it, heat treat it, drill it, hot- and cold-form it, chemically-clean it.

Lots of people try to sell stuff made from it, based on advertized properties that it just does not possess. It's nice metal, but it's just metal.

It is not as durable as various steels. Only those with huge racing budgets need apply, since the Ti parts must be replaced more often than steel.

About the best thing Ti should be used for in a street engine is valve spring retainers, and even then you are paying for a lot that gives you not much in return.

Leave the titanium to the aerospace people (that'd be me) and the golf club manufacturers, who sell to a market that has more money than intellegence about this sort of thing.


Titanium, and its cousin titanium carbide, is a lot like carbon fiber these days; has it's rightful place in industry, has great cache', but is being badly misused.


Larry
code5coupe

__________
Not easily impressed....

 

its good to hear your opinion considering you are working with it, the thing is my dad makes it lol, kindahi's the qualty control manager, they make ingots from grade 1 to grade 5

its a very nice metal, and over the years i've grown to love it

so the only place you would use it is for retainers ? what about springs, holders and other stuff ?

PS: when you sayd you work in aero-space i remembered the way rolls royce makes their turbine blades, the inflate them ! how the hell does that work ?!

 

 

now THIS is interesting!!!

 

I love the stuff, too.
Springs? Chassis springs would show a nice weight savings, but the cost is exorbitant. Engine parts are another deal altogether. What "holders" do you mean? Other stuff?

We go by AMS standards generally, not "grades".
It sounds like your dad makes unalloyed Ti for sale to the mills such as Timet?

I could explain the RR method (I'd done it in years past) but it would take WAY too much space.

Larry
code5coupe

__________
NOt easily impressed....

 

Ti retainers are the most common part, but you will not need these types of parts unless racing. The new beehive springs use smaller retainers, so they actually come out to be about the same as a traditional larger Ti retainer.

 

 

The valve springs on my heads are made of titanium. It looks tough as nails but other than that dont know what to tell ya.

 

Well GM used titanium on Z06 exhaust systems. Corsa at least prototyped a titanium exhaust for C4's.......don't think it is actually available......you can buy titanium pipes an build custom exhaust...

Red Devil makes titanium brakes for C5 Corvettes.
http://www.reddevilbrakes.com/page/page/898389.htm
I talked to them one time and they had plans for a C4 version, no sure if they ever did it...

Worth the $$$$.....??????

 

Intresting .
I also kind of love titanium and the properties it has.
I am actually using it to manufacture orthopaedic implants, such as artificial articulations .
Titanium, specially 6Al4Veli is very biocompatible and can be implanted with great success into the body.

I would love to learn how to weld it someday, but for now it goes only to the lathe, mill and grinder.
It is supposed to be 1/3 the weight of stainless steel but with the same strenght so fasteners would be nice to have in this material.

By the way, I know some Bike racers that change all the screws and nuts for titanium ones and save some weight.
Problem is that sometimes they would also need to shed some weight by themselves

You must really have a very interesting job Larry

Best regards
Roberto

 

I would imagine a Titanium DeLorean would be pretty sweet... and even more expensive.

 

Yes, the medical field is another big user of titanium, primarily because it is highly resistant to corrosion, and body fluids are very corrosive to most metals. (that's why Ti is also popular for marine applications)

TRIVIA:
Ti 6Al-4V, or better known as "six-four", is the most popular Ti alloy by far. It does have strengths comparable to some stainless steels, but you have to remember that the common stainless steels (and there are lots of different stainless steels) don't have really high tensile strengths. For instance, neither Ti nor SS fasteners have nearly the tensile strength of, say, a grade 5 bolt. I would never substitute a Ti bolt for a steel bolt...anywhere. Not without going up at least one size.

You may find this interesting:
(Ksi is shorthand for 1000 pounds per square inch tensile strength)

Titanium fasteners: 62Ksi
common stainless fasteners (18-8 and 316): 70-80Ksi
Grade 5 steel fasteners: 120Ksi
Grade 8 steel fasteners: 150Ksi
Alloy steel (socket head) fasteners: 170Ksi
(Ref: McMaster-Carr)

So, you can see that a Ti bolt has approximately half the strength of a Grade 5 steel bolt of the same diameter.

I've been a certified welder (to MIL-5021, AMS-1595, and AWS-D17.1 specs) in the TIG, plasma, and Electron Beam processes since the mid 1960's. Welding titanium is a joy, as long as you know how. I highly recommend learning the processes, Roberto, if you have the opportunity.
I also work, occaisonally, in our Metalurgical Laboratory (where 80% of the work is with Titanium), so yes I have been blessed with a very interesting job.

Ti valve springs? I'd change them out for steel at the earliest opportunity. Titanium does not possess nearly the fatigue strength of a good steel, and valve springs are one application that demands fatigue strength.
Here's a quote from one of the Ti valve spring manufacturers:
"Titanium springs are not “forever”, Titanium does not exhibit the same “infinite life” characteristic that carbon steel provide at low stress numbers. However for high performance-limited life applications such as racing, where the springs are replaced regularly titanium simply can’t be beat."

Larry
code5coupe

__________
Often wrong, never in doubt....

 

I found out that machining Titanium can be a challenge and a risk.
I was turning a piece of round stock at the Lathe and for my surprise the shavings ignited, causing a very intense light. I guess It was too hot and in need of more cutting fluid.
But the reason I mention it is because I have never seen that in a metal, and always wonder if a piece of titanium could ignite if the temperature at which it is exposed is too much, such as engine internals .

It is very reavealing to see that titanium is not that strong

Best regards
Roberto

 

Funny

 

I luv this thread. Where else could you go and learn about titanium strength in bolts AND its use in humans, not to mention valve springs. Wow.

I do feel rewarded by both of you---thanks Larry and Roberto!

Life is a long learning experience, if you so choose...

 

Neurosurgery uses titanium alloy fasteners every day. Most pedicle screw for spine applications are titanium alloy. All metal plates associated screws for skull bone flap fixation are Ti alloy as well.

 

neat stuff

 

YEAH... it has a bad habit of doing that, the good part is that it will only ignite in small particles like powder or what you describe

the reason they don't use it in high temp engine parts is this, titanium when hot will start to oxidizes and absorb different gases and by doing this it will lose its properties

until now i have seen:

- valve springs
- retainers
- connecting rods
- intake valve