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Old Feb 11, 2008 | 11:49 PM
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Default By The Numbers C4 VALUE????

Just did some digging,and found some interesting stats.
Thought some of you might find this interesting.
1963 to 1967 117,994 Corvettes produced,and you would be hard pressed to find a complete running basketcase worth less than 5 times it's original purchase price.

1984 to 1996 357,626 Corvettes produced and only (some)of the 1,000 96 GS cars are even over msrp.
The encouraging thing is only 6% of total production was designated special or unique by GM.

1988 2,050 35th anniversary cars
1990 thru 1995 6,939 ZR-1 cars
1993 6,749 40th anniversary cars(extremely popular)1year only
1996 5,412 Collector Edition cars(extremely popular)1 year only
1996 1,000 Grand Sport cars
TOTAL 22,150 or 6% of total production

I guess with all the talk of C4's not being worth anything or potentially Collectible,some ,only 6% stand out as unusual or perhaps Collectible in the future.There are actually 5 times as many Mid Styles 63-67 Collectibles as there are special production 84-96 C4's.
Comments ??? Whaddya Think??

Last edited by kenmack; Feb 11, 2008 at 11:55 PM. Reason: better title
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Old Feb 12, 2008 | 12:09 AM
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Toss in Pace-Cars and Calloways, too.

Early C3s are jumping in price, also. (68-72)
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Old Feb 12, 2008 | 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by kenmack

I guess with all the talk of C4's not being worth anything or potentially Collectible,some ,only 6% stand out as unusual or perhaps Collectible in the future.There are actually 5 times as many Mid Styles 63-67 Collectibles as there are special production 84-96 C4's.
Comments ??? Whaddya Think??
To argue otherwise is just wishful thinking.
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Old Feb 12, 2008 | 12:23 AM
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I am sure another 10-20 years these cars will be worth more than the average Vette. I really couldnt care to wait!!! I enjoy my cars and one day if they are worth more thats great if not I have enjoyed driving them!!!
PS: The 35th Anniversary Vette in 1988 was the lowest production Anniv Vette that Chevy built. To bad the engine wasnt any different! I may be a bit biased but I always felt on a sunny day with the roof off the 35th is one of the most visually striking C4's built!
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Old Feb 12, 2008 | 12:55 AM
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I don't think stock C4-5-6 will ever be worth more then the MSRP but I do think when then new emission laws go in to effect that the old V8 cars will go up in value.
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Old Feb 12, 2008 | 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by kenmack
Just did some digging,and found some interesting stats.
Thought some of you might find this interesting.
1963 to 1967 117,994 Corvettes produced,and you would be hard pressed to find a complete running basketcase worth less than 5 times it's original purchase price.

1984 to 1996 357,626 Corvettes produced and only (some)of the 1,000 96 GS cars are even over msrp.
The encouraging thing is only 6% of total production was designated special or unique by GM.

1988 2,050 35th anniversary cars
1990 thru 1995 6,939 ZR-1 cars
1993 6,749 40th anniversary cars(extremely popular)1year only
1996 5,412 Collector Edition cars(extremely popular)1 year only
1996 1,000 Grand Sport cars
TOTAL 22,150 or 6% of total production

I guess with all the talk of C4's not being worth anything or potentially Collectible,some ,only 6% stand out as unusual or perhaps Collectible in the future.There are actually 5 times as many Mid Styles 63-67 Collectibles as there are special production 84-96 C4's.
Comments ??? Whaddya Think??

The C3 has been gone for 40 years so it will be 2036 before C4s are in the same boat. The C2 was a run of 5 years with the 63 split window being identifiably unique. The C4 ran for 13 years and the average non C4 owner would need to see a 96 parked beside an 84 to tell that they were different cars. The C4 body ran several years too long. The C3 ran the same profile too long as well but the chrome bumper 68-72s look substantially different from the plastic bumper models and especially different from the last years of the C3. The chrome C3s will someday appreciate close to how the mid years have but the all plastic low compression cars, by far the lions share of production, will never approach the same values. The newer the Vette the fewer options to make it distinct and therfore more desirable.

Grand Sports, ZR1s, and possibly the CE LT4 convertibles will one day have a collectible value but I don't see cars like the anniversary editions or the LT1 CE coupes ever being worth much. The ZR1s are still falling in price. You can buy early models with under 1000 miles for under 50k and nice low mileage drivers for low 20s. I still can't figure out why these cars haven't caught on more, but 15 years old still hasn't made them close to collectible. The only "investment" C4 is probably the Grand Sport vert. Properly taken care of, and with extremely low mileage these are the only C4s selling for more than original sticker(I think. Maybe a 100 mile GS coupe as well but I haven't seen any around).
I think as C4 owners we have to resign ourselves to the fact these cars are for driving, not resale, and enjoy them on that basis. If you baby her she will depreciate more slowly, but that is about it for almost all of them. I don't mind that a bit
I am also on my 3rd C5, and I don't see them ever being collectible either. Ditto the C6. C6Z? Nope, thanks to the new ZR1 they are not the top of the food chain. Fine with me. I might actually be able to own one that still has some warranty
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Old Feb 12, 2008 | 08:48 AM
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In 1980 you could buy a big block C2 for almost nothing. Gas was getting expensive. .80 per gallon , I think. Some day ZR1s, Falconers and Calloways will bring big $$$. Maybe Lingenfelters, and DRMs too.
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Old Feb 12, 2008 | 09:42 AM
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Maybe I'm biased , but I think you can toss non-CE LT4 verts into that group. I think history has shown that regardless of whetheer they are special or limited editions, limited production high hp / unique engine cars are more desirable, and command a higher value. See L-88's, L-89's (obviously). There were only about 1290 LT4 verts built overall and once you pull out the 469 CE's, and 190 GS's that leaves only 631 non-CE/GS LT4 verts, a number that has probably decreased over the past 12 years due to accidents, write-offs, and people who have butchered or driven them into the ground.

My black 96 LT4 vert (see, I'm not biased ) may not ever pull in the big dollars, as mileage also plays a big role, and my car is already at 60k miles. However, there is always a chance that at some point their will be a market for doing a full restoration on these cars in order to preserve their 'numbers matching' status.

Just my $.02

Last edited by smack123; Feb 12, 2008 at 10:19 AM.
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Old Feb 12, 2008 | 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by nuck
The C3 has been gone for 40 years so it will be 2036 before C4s are in the same boat.
I disagree, I don't think there's any reason to assume that just because one generation took 40 years that will hold true for all of them. I know a guy that bought a 66 BB coupe in 1980 for $8500 and 8 years later it was worth $45k... that car was only 22 years old.

The C2 was a run of 5 years with the 63 split window being identifiably unique. The C4 ran for 13 years and the average non C4 owner would need to see a 96 parked beside an 84 to tell that they were different cars. The C4 body ran several years too long.
Agreed, the C4 ran too long, probably should have ended in 91 or 92, but 63-67 vettes are all also virtually indistinguishable. Again, a non-vetter person would need to see them side by side to see the difference.

The C3 ran the same profile too long as well but the chrome bumper 68-72s look substantially different from the plastic bumper models and especially different from the last years of the C3. The chrome C3s will someday appreciate close to how the mid years have but the all plastic low compression cars, by far the lions share of production, will never approach the same values.
Disagree - As little as 5 years ago you would have been laughed at for suggesting the 68-73's would be worth what they are. The 74-82 cars MAY never appreciate, but I don't think we can predict definitively what may or may not happen in the future.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that none of us knows what might happen at some point down the road. If I could predict that well I'd be out buying lottery tickets! I think the OP has a good point in recognizing that EVERY C2 still around is pulling multiple times it's original value, and that there is a small percentage of the C4 market (20-25,000 cars overall) that have an element of desirability or something that makes them more unique, and that perhaps that will set them apart at some point in the future.

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Old Feb 12, 2008 | 12:17 PM
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O.K. Throw in all the LT-4's in 96 and the Pace cars and the Calloways and there still are very few distinct or designated "SPECIAL"production Corvettes over that 13 year run.

Most1968 -1973 Corvettes were considered "dogs" just 5-10 years ago are now asking $40-50-60 for frame -offs or low mile original cars.

Last edited by kenmack; Feb 13, 2008 at 11:05 PM.
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Old Feb 13, 2008 | 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by smack123
I disagree, I don't think there's any reason to assume that just because one generation took 40 years that will hold true for all of them. I know a guy that bought a 66 BB coupe in 1980 for $8500 and 8 years later it was worth $45k... that car was only 22 years old.



Agreed, the C4 ran too long, probably should have ended in 91 or 92, but 63-67 vettes are all also virtually indistinguishable. Again, a non-vetter person would need to see them side by side to see the difference.



Disagree - As little as 5 years ago you would have been laughed at for suggesting the 68-73's would be worth what they are. The 74-82 cars MAY never appreciate, but I don't think we can predict definitively what may or may not happen in the future.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that none of us knows what might happen at some point down the road. If I could predict that well I'd be out buying lottery tickets! I think the OP has a good point in recognizing that EVERY C2 still around is pulling multiple times it's original value, and that there is a small percentage of the C4 market (20-25,000 cars overall) that have an element of desirability or something that makes them more unique, and that perhaps that will set them apart at some point in the future.
You were actually surprised when 427 435hp C3s started taking off in price? The high compression C3s are possibly that last Vettes that will seriously appreciate. All the big winners for resale are high compression muscle cars. There are probably a number of factors involved, but the cutoff line between collectable and not so much is around 1972. I did notice a 69 427/400 sold on at JB this year for only $36000.00 and while it wasn't concours perfect it was a numbers matching Tri-power and not at all rough so went at least 15k under where I would have expected there. Even the early C3s don't seem to be set in value although I don't recall them being dogs 5 years ago

There are almost no later American cars that have made themselves collectable, Not Buick Grand Nationals, Dodge Vipers or ZR1s regardless of performance or rarity. We discussed this a while back on another thread. I think it has to do with the cars that you grew up with. If you look at the age of many collectors at JB you can guess what were the special cars to them when they were young. Their fantasy vehicles. If you are a semi retired 60ish guy you grew up with the mid years and it is pretty significant that it wasn't until the 90s that Vettes were built that outperformed these dream cars. My earliest appreciation of performance vehicles was for the Boss 351 Mustangs and big block Challengers. Vettes were simply too pricey to fantasize over but I recall vividly the 454s and LT1s of 70-71. My theory, totally speculative, is that when the kids who grew up in the 90s around the ZR1 and LT4 cars get old enough, they will start grabbing the fantasy cars of their childhood and only then will these cars start to take off in value. You can only resell the 427s and fuelies so many times before the new guys on the block don't know have any connection with them. They may as well be Duesenbergs by that time.
Todays late 20s and early 30s guys are the ones that will provide the upward vales for the C4s, if it really happens. Maybe

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Old Feb 13, 2008 | 05:14 PM
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Default Some good points

Some interesting perspectives . Thanks for the input
I think the dream cars of the 20-30 yr olds in 30years will unfortunately be a Suburu wrx or a 7 series Bimmer.
Young people don't even recognize or seem to acknowledge Corvettes of any generation C-1 thru C-6.

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Old Feb 13, 2008 | 06:40 PM
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Part of the reason mid-year Corvettes are so in demand (hence will support a high price) is that the people who wanted them when they were young and couldn't get one or had one once and now want to re-live the past is....these people are still alive and have money.

You have one of these cars to look at mostly or park and strut around like a rooster while all your friends tell you how great your car is. Most normal people would HATE driving one for any distance. Ever try one with 11:1 comp, 91 octane gas and bias ply tires? Silly. I had a '62 340hp, a '65 convert 350hp and '68 400hp coupe. Bought them all when they were only a few years old and cheap used cars. Kept them for years and years in my dads garage just sitting. Went the whole NCRS route with the '65 (you know, have 100 point car and drive it around one weekend and you have a 99 point car on Monday). Sold them all and kept my worthless C4s. Love 'em. Use 'em.

Therefore those early vettes can't really be considered cars...nobody uses them as CARS. C4s are still cars. A few years ago, a friend bought an '87 Z51 4+3 coupe with 2200 miles on it.....and started to DRIVE it (horrors). It now has about 50k miles on it and is still beautiful. Why? He paid 17k for it and said what else am I going to buy new for 17k....a Honda Civic?

The only C4s worth anything are the ones with low (less than 5k) miles on them. The rest are just used cars....and there are PLENTY to go around
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Old Feb 16, 2008 | 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by kenmack
Some interesting perspectives . Thanks for the input
I think the dream cars of the 20-30 yr olds in 30years will unfortunately be a Suburu wrx or a 7 series Bimmer.
Young people don't even recognize or seem to acknowledge Corvettes of any generation C-1 thru C-6.
Yes I don't recall much of a "ricer movement" when I was a teenager. The fastest stock LT4s and ZR1s will barely hang with an STI or Supra and most C4s aren't within a mile of these in performance. There are so many foreign cars that are better in some way to the domestics, unlike the 60s when rarity and build quality of the imports protected the image of the domestics.
M3s, SLKs, VR4s, Supras, 300Zs, NSXs and the more recent WRXs and EVOs have to be diluting the interest for the era, plus older Vipers for under 30k sitting at the top of the food chain. So many other cars to choose from, and with kids growing up with Hondas and Mazdas instead of Chevys and Fords it seems unlikely they are going to revert to C4 fans once they get older and have a buck or two. It will be interesting to see what people are buying at BJ in 20 years. The C4 may never really have it's day.
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Old Feb 16, 2008 | 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by nuck
Yes I don't recall much of a "ricer movement" when I was a teenager. The fastest stock LT4s and ZR1s will barely hang with an STI or Supra and most C4s aren't within a mile of these in performance. There are so many foreign cars that are better in some way to the domestics, unlike the 60s when rarity and build quality of the imports protected the image of the domestics.
M3s, SLKs, VR4s, Supras, 300Zs, NSXs and the more recent WRXs and EVOs have to be diluting the interest for the era, plus older Vipers for under 30k sitting at the top of the food chain. So many other cars to choose from, and with kids growing up with Hondas and Mazdas instead of Chevys and Fords it seems unlikely they are going to revert to C4 fans once they get older and have a buck or two. It will be interesting to see what people are buying at BJ in 20 years. The C4 may never really have it's day.
My kids breathe red, white and blue. My oldest son wanted a new Mustang and that's whet he got. The next in line wants a Challenger. I doubt if I can swing that, but at least he doesn't want to ride around in a rice burner with a Maxwell House coffee can on his tailpipe. I wouldn't worry too much about the future, most of those Maxwell House cans will be rusted out in a few years.
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