Won't start...again!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 119
Likes: 1
From: Albuquerque NM
Won't start...again!
Hey folks,
You may (probably not) remember that I posted a thread some time ago regarding my 96 LT4 starter problems. Here's the Cliff's Notes version to bring you up to speed and my most recent dilemma.
First off my starter went bad. I replaced the starter and it cranked right up a few times and then it stopped. By stopped I mean that I get a click from the ign relay under the dash but no click from the solenoid on the starter. Okay, so after much snarling and gnashing of teeth later (and a ton of help from some people on this forum) I ran a new wire from the solenoid to the ign relay and it started right up...once. Since then I have tried wiggling connectors, changing wire gauges and basically re-tracing my steps.
I had a neighbor come by today and we tried touching the wire I ran from the starter solenoid directly to the positive terminal of the battery and nothing. On a whim he asked me to give the starter a tap with a hammer and he tried it again AND THE DAMN THING CRANKED. The starter has been pulled off the car and tested at least twice and it was fine.
Does anyone have any clue as to what I'm facing here?
New-guy question...should I be posting this in the tech forum?
You may (probably not) remember that I posted a thread some time ago regarding my 96 LT4 starter problems. Here's the Cliff's Notes version to bring you up to speed and my most recent dilemma.
First off my starter went bad. I replaced the starter and it cranked right up a few times and then it stopped. By stopped I mean that I get a click from the ign relay under the dash but no click from the solenoid on the starter. Okay, so after much snarling and gnashing of teeth later (and a ton of help from some people on this forum) I ran a new wire from the solenoid to the ign relay and it started right up...once. Since then I have tried wiggling connectors, changing wire gauges and basically re-tracing my steps.
I had a neighbor come by today and we tried touching the wire I ran from the starter solenoid directly to the positive terminal of the battery and nothing. On a whim he asked me to give the starter a tap with a hammer and he tried it again AND THE DAMN THING CRANKED. The starter has been pulled off the car and tested at least twice and it was fine.
Does anyone have any clue as to what I'm facing here?
New-guy question...should I be posting this in the tech forum?
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 17,551
Likes: 26
From: El Paso Texas
When you replaced the starter, did you buy a good quality reman or a rebuild? Where did you buy it?
Smacking it with a hammer is effective when the solenoid is getting marginal. The motor itself is probably fine, but the solenoid has gone on strike. Your original wiring was probably fine....running the secondary wire and having it crank once was probably either a coincidence or a factor of the solenoid being massaged during the wiring.
Testing a starter on the bench isn't perfect. I had a starter on my V8 Fiero that tested fine on the bench, but fell on its face under load. I figured this out merely because I had exhausted every other option troubleshooting it and was only left with one possibility.
Under a no-crank condition, measure the voltage at the solenoid while someone turns the key. I'm betting it's a solid 12V
Smacking it with a hammer is effective when the solenoid is getting marginal. The motor itself is probably fine, but the solenoid has gone on strike. Your original wiring was probably fine....running the secondary wire and having it crank once was probably either a coincidence or a factor of the solenoid being massaged during the wiring.
Testing a starter on the bench isn't perfect. I had a starter on my V8 Fiero that tested fine on the bench, but fell on its face under load. I figured this out merely because I had exhausted every other option troubleshooting it and was only left with one possibility.
Under a no-crank condition, measure the voltage at the solenoid while someone turns the key. I'm betting it's a solid 12V
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 119
Likes: 1
From: Albuquerque NM
I guess I'll try to dig up the receipt and see if they won't take it back even though it tests fine for them.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 119
Likes: 1
From: Albuquerque NM
grounding?
Do you think this could be a bad ground? The fact that this is an intermittent problem leads me to believe I've just got a bad connection somewhere. I know my connection from the battery to the starter is good, I know my connection to the ign relay isn't the problem...that pretty much leaves the ground.
Looking at my FSM it appears that getting to the main ground could be...well interesting to put it nicely. Anybody got any tips?
Looking at my FSM it appears that getting to the main ground could be...well interesting to put it nicely. Anybody got any tips?
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 17,551
Likes: 26
From: El Paso Texas
Autozone sells DuraJunk....and I don't mean that nicely.
Their starter was the one that would pass the bench test but wouldn't crank the car....and no, they wouldn't replace it under warranty as they insisted it wasn't the problem and that I was misdiagnosing the problem. But I had gone over every square inch of the starting circuit on that car and tested voltage and amperage at every junction. I won't say I never miss the mark, but I'm damn good at one thing, and that's making the machines run. I left Vatozone quite unhappy.
I stopped by Oreilly's on the way home and picked up another starter. Problem solved.
I suspect another starter / solenoid will solve yours as well. Vatozone sells rebuilds....they take the core, clean it up nice, and replace the one part that failed....then box it up and sell it as "rebuilt". Rebuilt my ***. They're junk.
Get an AC Delco reman and call it a day.
Their starter was the one that would pass the bench test but wouldn't crank the car....and no, they wouldn't replace it under warranty as they insisted it wasn't the problem and that I was misdiagnosing the problem. But I had gone over every square inch of the starting circuit on that car and tested voltage and amperage at every junction. I won't say I never miss the mark, but I'm damn good at one thing, and that's making the machines run. I left Vatozone quite unhappy.
I stopped by Oreilly's on the way home and picked up another starter. Problem solved.
I suspect another starter / solenoid will solve yours as well. Vatozone sells rebuilds....they take the core, clean it up nice, and replace the one part that failed....then box it up and sell it as "rebuilt". Rebuilt my ***. They're junk.
Get an AC Delco reman and call it a day.
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Racer
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 402
Likes: 7
From: New Tazewell Tennessee
If new starter doesn't fix then look at wires where they go by the bellhousing at the Y bracket. After a clutch change we let a wire loom get in the wriong place and it rubbed a hole in the start wire.....result intermittent starting. Just a thought. Allen
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 119
Likes: 1
From: Albuquerque NM
The solenoid
Okay, inspired by another thread I saw about rebuilding your own starter, I pulled mine off and took off the plate on the end of the solenoid. I looked inside and my two month old solenoid looked and smelled like it had been hit by lightning. I pulled out the plunger and hit it with a little sandpaper, and did the same to the contacts on the inside. Everything looked like it was really old but now they are all shiny and new. I put it back on the car, hooked up all the original wiring and it has started three times without fail since then.
Friz, this one says it was a Delco Reman, but it was from Autozone. I have started shoping at O-Reily's more because they seem to be a little more helpful at the store that's closest to me here in ABQ.
Pitch, thanks for the advice and that's something I'll look for in the future. I've been running every wire I can find and checking continuity...I guess I just didn't believe the results I was getting and assumed that the starter was fine. Live and learn I guess.
Friz, this one says it was a Delco Reman, but it was from Autozone. I have started shoping at O-Reily's more because they seem to be a little more helpful at the store that's closest to me here in ABQ.
Pitch, thanks for the advice and that's something I'll look for in the future. I've been running every wire I can find and checking continuity...I guess I just didn't believe the results I was getting and assumed that the starter was fine. Live and learn I guess.