Jim... since you are the expert I have a question. Why is it that the red tops seem to either work forever or fail very prematurely? I ask about the reds because I have zero experience with the others. I wasn't exaggerating when I said I went through 4 of them in a 3 year span (2 cars, 2 killed batteries each). All of which were replaced under warranty. I actually have 2 brand new red tops in my garage that I got under the warranty replacement that I refuse to put back in my cars after the other failures. None of them were asked to do anything that other batteries in the cars haven't done. 2 of the 4 did sit for a period of a couple of months and were discharged in my track car. Both of those were revived with the methods that you guys recommend and worked for a short period after that. After about a month or 2 tops neither would hold a charge. In all 4 cases the batteries ability to hold a charge slowly went down over a span of a few months. None of them was a catastrophic type of fail. Both charging systems work perfectly and since the Optimas I have had zero problems in either car. The interstate that is currently in the track car sat for almost 3 months and fired right up (it has pretty much zero draw when it sits) where as the Optima was at zero in the same time frame.

It seems to me like if you keep them tip top charged 100% of the time they work great but if you let them sit for even a short time or get discharged at all the damage is done, similar to a battery "memory" where as most batteries have no problem.

I'm not bashing them in this post. I put them in 2 of my Vettes thinking they were the best out there and was beyond frustrated and disappointed in them. Maybe there is some explanation that I am missing...

 

Hi RedLS1GTO, all batteries spend their entire existence either charging or discharging. Even if a battery is just sitting in your garage, it is still discharging at a very slow rate. I know you mentioned your track car has “pretty much zero draw,” but how many milliamps does it draw and how long does it typically sit between use? When batteries are discharged below 12.4 volts and allowed to sit in that state for an extended period of time, sulfation begins to diminish both performance and lifespan. Recharging these batteries at 10 amps for up to two hours can help break up this sulfation and restore some of the performance, but a better option is using a battery tender or maintainer and not letting them sulfate in the first place.

As I’m sure you’ve read on this forum, many owners of newer Corvettes (like your ZO6) have been dealing with deeply-discharged batteries. This is partly due to the increased electrical demands of newer vehicles. Older, electrically-simple vehicles with good wiring could sit for weeks or months with very little draw on their batteries. However, as this poster indicated, even Corvette engineers concede newer Vettes can drain batteries in as little as one week’s time and generally not more than three to four weeks- http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1573196654-post40.html Satellite-dependant accessories can be particularly demanding on electrical systems, if they are parked in a garage and searching for a signal. What is the parasitic drain on your ZO6?

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

 

Jim, thanks for replying. I do understand what you are saying completely. The Z06 is a known battery drainer but mine doesn't seem to be worse than others in that regard. I admittedly don't take care of my batteries the way I probably should with a tender, etc. My Z06 will be driven 10 days in a row or it will routinely sit for up to a week at a time depending on my work schedule. I don't keep a tender on it. That is way too much hassle. The problem that I had with the Optimas wasn't that they wouldn't work after a period of sitting, it was that they never seemed to recover from it like other batteries that I have used. With this routine I killed 2 Optima red tops in about a year each. Neither ever sat to the point that it was deeply discharged. I would actually unhook them completely if I was going out of town for an extended period. The difference that I see is that with the battery I have now, it will be a little weak after a week of sitting but after it is driven and recharged it will be as good as new. I am now 2.5 years into a battery without the slightest hint of it fading like the Optimas did.

My question really is whether there is something about the Optima batteries that doesn't let them "recover" like other batteries do?

 

RedLS1GTO, Optimas can actually recover better than a traditional flooded battery, but the low internal resistance of our batteries will allow them to operate well beyond their specified ratings. While that means a radio can play music longer, it also means our batteries can be deeply-discharged well into the single-digits. Those batteries can still be recovered, they just need to be charged longer, because they were so deeply-discharged. When your batteries sat, what was the typical voltage when you went to use them?

We typically suggest an acceptable current draw on a battery is about 25 milliamps and encourage people to review their electrical system if their draw exceeds 100 milliamps. I’ve dealt with some people who had a 133 mA draw, but lets cut that about in half to 70mA and do some some simplified calculations.

A 70 milliamp draw means a vehicle is discharging a battery at a rate of 1.44 amps (.070 x 24 hours) per day. If it is running a 34/78 RedTop, the Capacity rating is 50 amps. This means the battery will be dead (0% state of charge), if it sits for 34.7 days (50/.144) without any charge going to the battery. These calculations assume the battery is fully-charged when it is parked (most are not) and does not take into consideration climate, which can shorten (heat) or lengthen (moderate temps) these timeframes.

It should be noted that different vehicles will require a different minimum voltage to start, which probably is something above 0% state of charge. Using these numbers, if this vehicle only drew 35 milliamps, it could sit for almost 70 days before the battery died. If it was drawing 140 milliamps, a fully-charged battery could be dead in just over two weeks.

It's also worth mentioning that even if a vehicle does not sit long enough to completely discharge the battery (for example, 1 month in the above 35 milliamp calculation), this repeated partial discharge, and the sulfation that will be caused by the battery resting in a discharged state, will cause long-term reductions in performance and life. This is why we emphasize the importance of maintaining 12.4 volts and recommend a maintenance charger for any vehicle that is not used regularly.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

 

Jim....thanks for chiming in. I've learned quite a bit in the last couple of pages. The Optima that failed in my 95 wasn't very old, but I just purchased the car in April. It's only got 60K, so it's done some sitting at some point.....I suspect recently. Odds are the battery had been deeply discharged at some point.

At any rate, glad to hear your side of the equation.

 

All lead acid batteries self discharge even disconnected. During discharge, lead sulfate collects on the plates and it is soft. During charging the lead sulfate converts back to lead and sulfuric acid. After sitting for long periods (4+ wks) the lead sulfate becomes hard and lead sulfate is a good insulator and it will not convert upon charging. A sulfated battery then has less plate area and thus less CCA (high cranking current available) and less reserve time (minutes it can deliver 20 amps to discharge). A sulfated battery is essentially a smaller battery. A fully sulfated battery will draw no current when you attempt to charge it and is useless. Car batteries should never sit for long periods doing nothing, it permanently ruins them! Always connect a battery tender (commercial name) that keeps the battery fully charged when not in use for long periods. Batteries kept charged have a normal life, batteries left sitting have a shortened life. GM says C4's should not have more than 50 milliamps of leakage current, I measured my 87 and it is 27 ma. and because I drive mine every day, I have long battery life.
Don't be a battery abuser, buy a battery tender and connect it to your battery and keep it fully charged so that you experience normal battery life. Leave it sit and you will have a door stop.

 

I keep hearing all the Optima bashing, but I only owned two so what do I know.

When I first bought the vette, I had to replace the traditional battery about every 12-18 months. Yes, the various manufacturer's warrantied them, but it was still a PITA. And these were not cheap batteries either. I can't remember how many traditional batteries I went through.

Then I bought a red top. It gave me 10 years of perfect service. Never before had I had a battery last so long. Yes, I had a Battery Tender hooked to it, but I did the same for the others too and that did not help them. Finally the first Red Top I owned bit the dust last year. I could not believe it when I pulled the red top and found the receipt with the date on it.

 

You are the only poster with 10 years of service from an Optima battery. I haven't kept count, but we have more posters swearing at Optima's than swearing by them.

 

Based on what?? I see more people with complaints about Optima batteries dying prematurely than every other brand of battery combined not to mention that in my own experience with 11 different cars over a span of quite a few years Optima batteries are the ONLY brand of battery that has ever lasted less than a year. To top it off, it wasn't just 1... it was 4.

I appreciate the reply but basically just like the guys that I spent hours with on the phone, you have no explanation as to why 2 (cheaper) Interstate batteries have worked with no issues in the exact same 2 cars that eat Optimas like candy.

 

RedLS1GTO, Optimas can actually recover better than a traditional flooded battery,
________________________________________ _________________

There isn't anything in an Optima battery that would allow it to recover (recover from what?) than a flooded cell car battery. The main difference between an Optima and a conventional battery is that the Optima has a sulfuric acid gel instead of a liquid. Once the lead sulfate on the plates becomes hard, that plate area is lost, no matter what the electrolyte is made of, liquid or gel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I had an optima in my vette for one summer. over the winter I had a trickle charger on it and in the spring it was dead and I had to get another battery.

Optima batteries are crap check where they are made.


MEXICO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They probably fill the battery with their crappy water.

 

If an optima isnt lasting a yr theres a problem somewhere else in the car. id take one over a typical battery any day. On the mexico statement wannknow where all the gm gen 1 blocks are made let alone a ton of chevy parts in general? As posted above theres no water in optimas anyway.

 

Ive used Optimas in my jeeps and pickups for many years. I haven't had any of the problems attributed to them here. I use them primarily because the vibration can shake a normal battery to death in short order. I have had to TRICK charge (another in parallel) a time or two as the jeeps sit a lot.

Still and all for me out of the 6 I have bought (dual batteries in 3 trucks/jeeps) all but one lasted 5-6 years and the one that lasted a year died after an extended winching session.. having said that I use normal lead acid batteries in my street cars. and have had equally good luck with Wal mart and autozone batteries as aything else.

 

How is it then that an Interstate battery has lasted 3 years in the same car with zero other changes and is still going strong when 2 Optimas died in less than a year each?

 

So these optima batteries have warranty? What do I need to get a new one?

 

RedLS1GTO, I understand that you see a lot of conversations about our products and that is to be expected, given the volume of products that we sell. Optima batteries can recover from deeply-discharged states better than flooded batteries, based on the fact that the oxygen gas recombination in AGM designs in general, limits water loss. This is a feature that is lacking in flooded batteries. In addition, Optima’s grid alloy is one of the most corrosion-resistant alloys in production. The high purity of the alloy and it’s simple, binary composition also minimizes gas generation. Typical wet or flat-plate AGM batteries use grid alloys that contain three or four elements, which results in lower overall purity and gassing characteristics, which are not as good as Optima’s binary lead alloy.

I understand that explanation doesn’t help address your current situation, but I would still be interested in learning more about your vehicle, what the parasitic draw is on your battery and what the voltage reading was of the batteries that gave you problems.

84cfi, I’m sorry to hear about the problem you had with your battery. Do you still have it? If you do and the battery gave you problems within the first year, it should be fully-covered under our three-year free replacement warranty. The retailer where you purchased it should be able to assist you, but if you have any problems getting warranty service, please feel free to PM me.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

 

Concur which is why I would use a Battery Tender float charger.

Had my 86 hooked up to one of these for the past 4 years.
The same Sears Diehard too.

Averaging 5-8K miles a year

 

Your car obvously prefers green batteries over red ones
Thats all I got