Hey everyone!

Ive been looking to get into track racing events. For starters, it would be basic driving schools and track day events, nothing too extreme yet until I learn more about driving and racing.

So Ive been looking at cheap RWD manual cars to get my foot in the door with and use as my starter track car and it dawned on me that the C4s are older and cheaper now and they would be a great choice.

Ive been looking at 92-92 C4s that are around $7grand and less. Ive found some potential cars, but before I even get close to looking at any, how well will the C4 serve my purposes? Ive read it handles well, and the engines reliable. But will their age force me to spend thousands in repairs? How are C4 parts pricing and availability? What mileage do LT1s typically have to be rebuilt at? What type of modifications must I make before racing (stainless steel brake lines, trans cooler)?

I want a cheaper car that if something breaks on it wont be a heart break, just toss it in the garage and get to work.

Thanks alot!

 

As a starter car for amateur racing, a Miata is a FAR better choice - cheap, readily available, and with excellent aftermarket support for performance upgrades in general, and racing in particular. In addition, as a much less powerful and more nimble car, the Miata doesn't have the 'pucker factor' of the Vette, allowing you to climb the learning curve at a more measured, less frightening pace.

 

I guess I should have mentioned I own a 2002 Trans Am WS6, and a 2009 Solstice GXP with GMPP upgrade tune. Both manual. Im not new to fast/powerful RWD cars. One is big and heavy, the other is small and light. Both spectrums covered haha. I seriously considered a Miata for a while, but in the end I wouldnt be happy with a foreign car.

As far as amateur racing goes, the C4 wont be out of my league.

Basically, I need to know how well high mileage C4s and LT1s hold up with racing, and what types of modifications will I need to do to them before racing. Do you think the C4s maintenance costs will make it a bad choice?

 

I would suggest that you take a look at the Club Codes and Regulations document on the NASA Racing website (nasaproracing.com), which details, among other things, car prep requirements. In general, for HPDE (instruction/training) events and track days, the car simply needs to be in good working order and not visibly damaged. Of course, as you move into competitive events, the requirements (and costs) rise.

As a practical matter, the typical weak spots of a street car used on a track are brakes and tires. A set of recent (not more than a year or so old) matching high performance tires will do for HPDEs, and you can move up to DOT legal competition tires and then to full-race slicks as you progress.

Brakes are more critical. At minimum, you'll want new rotors, a full fluid flush and refill with DOT4 fluid (ATE Super Blue is the standard), and a quality street/track pad (Hawk HP Plus or equivalent). Even with all that, expect braking power to fade significantly within a handful of laps, particularly at high speed tracks.

As far as the C4's suitability, the first concern is that it's now a 15-plus year old car, so all bushings/hoses/belts should be checked and replaced as needed. The small block motors are generally bulletproof, so my concerns would be with suspension, electrical, and cooling systems. Finally, the Corvette has never been the most durable/reliable car on the planet, and adding double-digit age to the mix will not have improved that, to put it mildly.

I would suggest that you prep one of your existing cars and try a HPDE or two. If you don't have any track experience, it may change your perspective of what is or isn't "out of [your] league". Good luck, and have fun...

 

For track days, the C4 is fine initially. Once you start running in intermediate to advanced groups, you'll find you need suspension work and additional horsepower to stay with stock C5s Z06s and C6s that decent drivers. The suspension design dates to 1988 on the later C4s and the stock chassis has a lot of flex.

A C4 takes a lot of work to go fender-to-fender racing. Defining what class you intend to race will affect what you have to do.

 

I don't know if it would make a difference but my LT1 powere 93 Trans Am has 211,000 miles on the original non rebuilt motor and transmission. The only possible achilles heel in the LT1 may be the Optispark ignition. In my case I am on my fourth unit and they are not cheap. I agree with welles, the Miata may be a better choice for your needs.

 

Screw the Miata. If I had a dollar for everyone that ever told me that I'd punch them all in the face. That made absolutely no sense, but you get my point.

The C4 is great for a low buck track car. however, as you start to heavily modify the engine you find the limitations of the ignition system. Maintenance costs could be high, but I don't see it being much higher than any performance car of a similar age. Replacement parts are plentiful and cheap as long as you can do most of your own work. Mechanics like to really take you for a ride on labor costs when they can; the proverbial "Corvette tax". Aftermarket and performance parts are out there, but they are getting harder to find as our cars get older.

I would address brakes. That's honestly the only thing that is inadequate for hard driving on the track. I'd get a decent aftermarket package, but many here have been satisfied with the J55 upgrade which is only a couple hundred dollars.

Avoid the 4+3 transmission. The later cars with the ZF6 are a good option, but I will stress that if you plan to do significant engine work the LT1 ignition system becomes problematic. Plan to use an aftermarket system (like a FAST or Accel) or LS style ignition upgrade. That's the only thing I've repeatedly had problems with in 10 years of C4 racing. I wish I had taken my own advice years ago.

C4's are a bit heavy, but with a little work you can get 200 lbs out and still have a streetable car. If you plan to use it only on track you can get more like 400 lbs out of it.

Ignore those who say you can't get a C4 to keep up with a C5. Certainly not stock, but with minor work and an equal driver you can run with your C5 buddies no problem. C5Z takes a bit more work, but at that point we're hardly talking apples to apples, so the argument loses any relevance.

 

The only thing a Miata teaches you in mixed events is how to get the hell out of the way of the fast cars and how to be a rolling chicane.

Compared to stock-ish C5/C6s out there, my maintenance costs are pretty much the same (or even a little less). Scary fast is right on. If you race a C4... or any car for that matter... you had better be able to do the work yourself.

The market for performance C4 parts is definitely on the low end. If you start modifying it to be a track only type of car, plan on doing a lot of custom work rather than simply buying parts.

It took me 1 day on a track to get rid of the J55s that were on mine and bolt on a set of Wilwoods. Granted, I am running 315 series R compounds on all 4 and ~500 hp so I was a "little" harder on brakes than a stock-ish car would be.

If you have base brakes, don't even begin to take it to a track. Get them off and get at minimum J55s. When you start upping power (and tires) my guess is that you will want to upgrade again to something aftermarket.

100% right on.

It is definitely a heavy car, but if you get aggressive with it you can definitely cut some fat.

My 96 is pretty comparable to a stock C6 Z06 on similar tires as I am running. They pull me a little on the big end, and I gain a bit on the low end and in the corners.

The C5/C6 is a better platform... especially when you start with a Z06, but just like ScaryFast said, the C4 is more than capable and a lot more affordable at the moment. There is a lot of good info out there if you really start looking into it.

From personal experience, the issues that I have had are with wheel bearings (if you search you can find my threads on that), cooling, and a rear end. I am running an aftermarket ignition with a carb so I can't really speak to that part of it.

The cooling and rear end can be pretty much explained by the modifications that have been made. The biggest lesson learned on that one is to make sure that you have a GOOD water pump. Make sure it doesn't have some Autozone Duralast POS on it. I had one that lasted a grand total of 24 minutes.


Long story short is that I agree with pretty much everything that ScaryFast said.

 

...and on a side note, I sense a little cockiness (perhaps I am wrong). You need to check that before you ever climb in. Driving around on the street in a "fast" car (my daily driver is a C5Z) and tossing a car around a road course are 2 completely different things.

Almost every person who I have watched stuff a car into a wall somewhere has been one of those who thought they were completely within their league.

 

I dont plan on adding performance upgrades to the C4. The C4 will serve as my low cost introduction to beginner classes and some road course races that arent necessarily competitive. This is for my pleasure to become a better driver. If i was to go into competitive events in the future Id buy a different car for it and modify it accordingly.

Ill be doing my own work, thats no problem. I have the tools and most the know-how. This is a learning experience in all forms. Anything I cant do myself yet I will learn...short of computer tuning stuff...Ill leave that to someone else.

...and no, no cockiness here. Im not comparing street driving to track driving. I dont think Im hot stuff, Im here to learn. Thats why I came here first.

I really appreciate everyones input, thanks alot!

 

You'll be fine then, in any car.

The only other thing I'd throw out to you is the option of buying rather than building. Decent C4's with the basic mods needed for the track (cooling, brakes, bearings, some suspension, etc) are all over the place. There's a nice LT1 car (I think it's GS's, even) for $11,500 with a TON of race prep. I know that's higher than the $7000 you suggested, but not much.

 

Don't discount the C4 for competition should you choose that route. If you build it to a specific class, they are very capable.

Solid plan. Best part of a track car is that the fear of screwing up your driver is gone. Dig in, have fun, and learn a lot along the way.

The C4 is a great platform for that state of mind.

ABSOLUTELY.

Always let somebody else take the hit when you can. Things add up quickly when it comes to track prep on a car. If you can spend a little more now, you can save yourself a lot later, both in terms of money and work.

 

I should clarify something. When I say I dont plan on adding performance, I mean more power. Ill immediately add stainless steel brake lines, new rotors/pads, maybe a trans cooler if someone suggests it...anything else I should think about doing? (Of course fluids, belts...etc. as someone mentioned earlier)

 

So where do you live?
There are a few of us hard headed individuales that put our C4's on road courses.

Out of the box look for a Z07 or Z51 optioned car with J55 brakes.
Change every last fluid on the car (steering, diff, trans, brake, etc etc etc)
Are you going to drive it to the track or trailer it?
Drive to the track - tires will depend on your budget.
Trailer - I'd still suggest starting with street tires until the first new set is worn out. Then Khumo v700, Nitto Ntsomething or other when those wear out your ready for rubber that meets your class.

Inexpensive DYI projects that will help imensely:
Replace all the bushings with poly. Get the Energy suspension master kit.
Plan on taking a month, it will take 5 weeks
Well if you clean parts and have to wait for sway bar bushings.
Get the front adjustable lower bushings.

Then get thee to an alignment shop. a good starting point can be found on the Vette Brakes website.

Replace your brake pads with something better for the track. I can stand Carbotech xp8 on the street, currently I run a bias spring and xp12/xp10 combo. Those c5z06's can outbrake me - but not by much. Get some air on the brakes and they will last 30 min sessions.

 

Make sure you are not using base brakes. You need the J55 (13" rotors). For the C4 specifically, something to consider is the DRM brake bias spring:

http://dougrippie.com/?p=404

It really helps stabilize the car, especially for high speed braking.

Also, take a good look at your wheel bearings. C4s are not easy on them.


Other than that, I suggest reading through this. There is a lot of information from a lot of knowledgable people.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...k-in-here.html

 

 

How many cars came with Z51 and J55 options? (92-96 years) I havent seen many that had those options listed.

...I just looked up Z51 for the 93 model year. less than 500 were made. ok, so Z51 is rare. How can I tell if a car has J55 brakes just by looking at it?

 

Power steering. Very weak in these cars. A manual car should have a PS cooler, but I'm not sure about all years, just '92-96. The high pressure line is weak, also. Get or make a new line with -6 fittings.

The PS pumps can be weak with lots of track use, www.turnone-steering.com will rebuid a stock pump to handle racing for a reasonable cost.

For a ZF6 car - trans and diff coolers (d44) are not necessary.

I'd add an oil cooler, but a stock-ish motor may be fine without. It's been a long time since I had a stock-ish motor so I can't remember.

Are you in the south? Run straight water in the radiator. Just add some water wetter or water pump lube.

Ditch the AC, avoid the camber brace, skip the FX3 active handling option, and go to the track.

 

Out of curiosity, why do you say that?

I had mine out for a brief period and it felt like I was about to twist the front of the car off under acceleration while still turning.

Even looking at pictures, you could see a huge difference in how far the car picked up the inside front tire without the brace.

 

Im in Central NJ. About 2 hours from NJ Motorsports Park, and about 45 mins away from Raceway Park.