C4 Corvette value increase?
10-22-2011, 04:02 PM
#41
Safety Car
I agree with a lot of what was said. The C4 is not a 'collector car' and won't be for many decades. There are just too many of them and they are way to complex for many do it yourselves. Slowly the electronics will corrode and fail and as fresh repaired computers dry up and parts get scarce, they will be parked, forgotten and rot away.
To a few who understand them, love them, have the special tools and knowledge, there will be some value increase. Here are some cars they are not. XKE Jag, Austin Healey, Porsche 356, Porsche 928. Here are some cars they are like. Porsche 911SC, 90's Dodges, GM Cars, Saabs, Volvo's etc.
I drive my cars and I have tried to fix them myself. I sold 3 911 Porsche's this year which I maintained myself and I can tell you parts are getting hard to find and are very expensive. I can see the C4 going the same way. They will become more valuable to take apart than to fix.
Warning. Don't fall in love with a car. The only way to save yourself is to sell it and let it screw somebody else.
To a few who understand them, love them, have the special tools and knowledge, there will be some value increase. Here are some cars they are not. XKE Jag, Austin Healey, Porsche 356, Porsche 928. Here are some cars they are like. Porsche 911SC, 90's Dodges, GM Cars, Saabs, Volvo's etc.
I drive my cars and I have tried to fix them myself. I sold 3 911 Porsche's this year which I maintained myself and I can tell you parts are getting hard to find and are very expensive. I can see the C4 going the same way. They will become more valuable to take apart than to fix.
Warning. Don't fall in love with a car. The only way to save yourself is to sell it and let it screw somebody else.
10-23-2011, 12:39 AM
#42
Racer
According to your profile, you have a C5. Have you ever owned a C4? If so, what year? Comparing a C4 Corvette to 90's Dodges, Saabs and Volvos as you have shows you don't have much knowledge mechanically of C4's. Parts for any C4 can be had very easily. Nothing at all on a C4 is hard to get and most parts are not very expensive. The parts for them are in line pricewise with any other car on the road today. Saabs & Volvos? Really?
I have a C4, it is my first Corvette. My opinion stands, I don't think the C4 will be a collectors car for many decades. I owned a Porsche 928 (a 1985 S) a much superior car technically. GM studied the Porsche when redesigning the Corvette. This doesn't take anything away from the Corvette, which has a personality all its own. I like it but have no illusions that it is, in many ways, a different version of a Camero or a Malibu with good reliability, economy and suitability for me.
Last edited by oldtee; 10-23-2011 at 12:44 AM.
10-23-2011, 06:29 AM
#43
Le Mans Master
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With 364,000+ C4s having been built, it will be a while before the supply goes down far enough such that demand out paces the remaining cars. Having said that, as a surrogate for the overall Corvette market, using data from eBay:
Cars For Sale:
C1 - 36
C2 - 82
C3 (Chrome bumper - 68-72) - 97
C3 (plastic front kamm back 73-77) - 62
C3 (bubble rear 78-82) - 75
C4 (early round taillight 84-90) - 81
C4 (Late C4 rectangular taillight 91-96) - 97
C5 - 228
C6 - 550
If you then compare the totals being sold and compare to the number of vehicles in each grouping produced:
C1 - 0.052% of vehicle produced
C2 - 0.069%
Early C3 - 0.073%
Mid C3 - 0.028%
Late C3 - 0.036%
Early C4 - 0.034%
Late C4 - 0.076%
C5 - 0.092%
If the numbers above are indicative of surviving examples, then it is clear that the 73-90 Corvettes have been used up at a much higher rate than the earlier Corvettes and the later ones are still being used. Many of the earliest Corvettes (C1/2) were probably brought back from the dead because the value is there to do so. Not so for the 73-90 cars. For C4s, the 84-90 Corvettes, having been used as affordable drivers, will be used up, and the remaining few will start to climb in value as the mid and late C3 are doing right now. But you can see that the relative percentage of C4s will have to decrease substantially still before that happens.
Cars For Sale:
C1 - 36
C2 - 82
C3 (Chrome bumper - 68-72) - 97
C3 (plastic front kamm back 73-77) - 62
C3 (bubble rear 78-82) - 75
C4 (early round taillight 84-90) - 81
C4 (Late C4 rectangular taillight 91-96) - 97
C5 - 228
C6 - 550
If you then compare the totals being sold and compare to the number of vehicles in each grouping produced:
C1 - 0.052% of vehicle produced
C2 - 0.069%
Early C3 - 0.073%
Mid C3 - 0.028%
Late C3 - 0.036%
Early C4 - 0.034%
Late C4 - 0.076%
C5 - 0.092%
If the numbers above are indicative of surviving examples, then it is clear that the 73-90 Corvettes have been used up at a much higher rate than the earlier Corvettes and the later ones are still being used. Many of the earliest Corvettes (C1/2) were probably brought back from the dead because the value is there to do so. Not so for the 73-90 cars. For C4s, the 84-90 Corvettes, having been used as affordable drivers, will be used up, and the remaining few will start to climb in value as the mid and late C3 are doing right now. But you can see that the relative percentage of C4s will have to decrease substantially still before that happens.
One other thing that strikes me about your post... You have toooo much time on your hands! You live in MI, and doancha know da snow is a commin!??
I enjoy reading your posts.
P.
10-23-2011, 05:33 PM
#45
Melting Slicks
Unless its a Zr1, Calloway, pace car,anniversary edition,or some other real rare edition you can expect to never get your money back from what you put into it. These are great cars but they are not C1,2 or 3s and I am not sure if they ever will be that in value any time soon no matter how many C7s they build.
10-23-2011, 06:39 PM
#46
Safety Car
hard to say...it may have a lot to do with what new cars are produced in the next 5 years and the emissions laws getting tighter again.
I bought my 69 Camaro when it was less than 19 years old and muscle car prices were already on the rise, even in 1988. All the late 70's and early 80's cars made sure there was a demand for pre-emissions stuff- that's for sure.
I think some C4's will be desirable, but will be less than the hottest models of newer Corvettes. It's kind of like trying to find a 79 Z-28. They are cool to see a nice one, but they aren't really going to be the holy grail like something from 68-72.
I still feel that some of the LT1 cars have turned the corner and are holding value. The last C4 run I went on...my 91 was the second oldest car...almost all 95 and 96's. They will be few and far between soon.
I bought my 69 Camaro when it was less than 19 years old and muscle car prices were already on the rise, even in 1988. All the late 70's and early 80's cars made sure there was a demand for pre-emissions stuff- that's for sure.
I think some C4's will be desirable, but will be less than the hottest models of newer Corvettes. It's kind of like trying to find a 79 Z-28. They are cool to see a nice one, but they aren't really going to be the holy grail like something from 68-72.
I still feel that some of the LT1 cars have turned the corner and are holding value. The last C4 run I went on...my 91 was the second oldest car...almost all 95 and 96's. They will be few and far between soon.
10-23-2011, 11:01 PM
#47
How many of you have asked yourself, "why did I sell that car, it is worth a lot now?". If you've been a car person long enough you have had and sold a car that is now worth much more than you ever thought it would be, for me it was a 66 Chevy Impala Super Sport with a 396 and Powerglide, yet here we sit again saying our Corvettes will never be worth anything. I for one don't really care, but I have no plans to get rid of my 88 and maybe it will be worth something in 20 years. At least I won't have to ask myself again, why did I get rid of it?
10-24-2011, 10:49 AM
#48
Wow! Interesting analysis you've compiled. Kind of a different slice of the market; one I've not seen published (as comprehensively, at least) anywhere on Corvette boards or rags.
One other thing that strikes me about your post... You have toooo much time on your hands! You live in MI, and doancha know da snow is a commin!??
I enjoy reading your posts.
P.
One other thing that strikes me about your post... You have toooo much time on your hands! You live in MI, and doancha know da snow is a commin!??
I enjoy reading your posts.
P.
Thanks for the comments. I think I sometimes look at the Corvette market like a business consultant.
I often wonder how many Corvettes in each generation (and sub-generation) are still around. Not knowing makes it difficult to really understand the supply side of the supply/demand curves. another factor not easy to discern is the relative desirability of the respective generations. For example, when the C2s and the early C4s remaining are in equal numbers, does that mean equal demand and thus pricing. Probably not. But at some supply level, a base 88 (as an example) Corvette would be as valuable as a base 66. That level might not be until there are only 10 88s left, but if there were enough data, it could be predicted.
Another factor affecting values is the relative condition of the cars. Most 66s remaining are in pretty good shape. The percentage remaining of the 88s that have one foot in the junk yard (or recycle yard to be politically correct) is probably much higher. The fact that many of these less than well taken care of 88s are still plying the roads holds down the value of the pristine versions of the same car.
I think that because the C4 generation is considered to be a "driver" generation more than the classics (C1/2/early 3), people will drive them until the "wheels fall off". Another 10 years or so and I think there will be fairly few of these cars left - especially in low mileage pristine condition. (Our ZR-1s though may be plentiful for quite some time)
bb62
10-25-2011, 11:08 PM
#49
Le Mans Master
Just another kink in any calculation you might have is that the generation that these cars would be classic for are going to be a little further behind when it comes to having disposable income due to current job markets. I love my C4 because I rode to kindergarten in it but most of my peers don't have the disposable income to put into a car which isn't a reliable commuter. Until this group builds more disposable income they aren't inclined to become collectors items.
10-25-2011, 11:57 PM
#50
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2004
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St. Jude Donor '05
Theres a couple from the past that, even when I sold them knew it was a mistake but life $ dictated it. They were collectible then too.
Were talking 20 yrs though.
They were perfect then but would bet after sitting inside with a cover all this time they would be badly weathered needing a lot of $ to bring back. Would you really see a gain? Costs to register insure store etc even if it isnt being driven and dont stay nice by themselves
What kind of condition would even a now pristine condition C4 be after sitting for 20 yrs. Not great.
Always been of the opinoin these will never shoot up a lot.
However (flame suit on) the amount of hack repairs and fixes that seem to plug up these sections may just make the ones that are maintained RIGHT worth more before their time. Some posted fixes are downright scary these cars are getting hack fixed to death. Would never touch a C4 unless it was absolutely stock and untouched.
Same with the C5 section.
Keep yours nice and clean and you just may get a little more down the road. Is the $ going to make a difference in your life probably not so why the obsession over it>!
Were talking 20 yrs though.
They were perfect then but would bet after sitting inside with a cover all this time they would be badly weathered needing a lot of $ to bring back. Would you really see a gain? Costs to register insure store etc even if it isnt being driven and dont stay nice by themselves
What kind of condition would even a now pristine condition C4 be after sitting for 20 yrs. Not great.
Always been of the opinoin these will never shoot up a lot.
However (flame suit on) the amount of hack repairs and fixes that seem to plug up these sections may just make the ones that are maintained RIGHT worth more before their time. Some posted fixes are downright scary these cars are getting hack fixed to death. Would never touch a C4 unless it was absolutely stock and untouched.
Same with the C5 section.
Keep yours nice and clean and you just may get a little more down the road. Is the $ going to make a difference in your life probably not so why the obsession over it>!
Last edited by cv67; 10-26-2011 at 12:00 AM.
10-26-2011, 07:41 PM
#51
Pro
Interesting that this thread popped up. I've been feeling guilty about not driving my '88 coupe enough and thought about selling it. When I started to look around on craigslist, ebay, and the news papers I found that our C4's are just not really worth much... not enough to let go anyway. My '88 has 79k on it, basically loaded, and is in really nice condition but I bet I'd be hard pressed to get $8k out of it.
01-31-2012, 11:11 PM
#52
5th Gear
C4 Values
These cars(C4) had such a long run and like the C3 had many tech, body and proformance changes through the years.
The only one with the clamshell full tilt hood out of all the Vettes, makes the C4 the most unique of them all.
With a few exceptions the best of the run were the the ones produced with the Lt1 Lt4 and the ZR1 I believe those will be the ones to retain the largest gain in value. The C4 body panals fit like they should had proformance and handling like no other generation, fit and finish were world class.
This is a drivers car
I have owned several corvettes my first was a 77 white coupe t tops and was the biggest piece of sh%# I have owned fit and finish out of the St Louis plant was an afterthought and with only 8 in of suspension travel rode like a log wagon. The fastest thing about that car was the power windows, also owned a 1991 ZR1 loved the car but was always in the shop for the proformance mode
My 16 yr old son drives a 95 Vette I bought a few months ago from the dealership I work for and what a sweet ride. just a base coupe with auto leather and duel power seats but only 44,000 miles and damn near perfect.
I now have a 2008 ZO6 and this car is scary fast and can be driven daily but I dont and is by far heads and sholders the best Vette I have driven in all aspects except the 95 is just plain FUN
Guess my point is he can drive that car on nice days and put 3 to 5 k a year on it and when I sell it in 4 or 5 years I will get within 3 or 4 thousand dollars of what I paid for it.
Try doing that with a Cobalt for the same money
JMO
Greg
The only one with the clamshell full tilt hood out of all the Vettes, makes the C4 the most unique of them all.
With a few exceptions the best of the run were the the ones produced with the Lt1 Lt4 and the ZR1 I believe those will be the ones to retain the largest gain in value. The C4 body panals fit like they should had proformance and handling like no other generation, fit and finish were world class.
This is a drivers car
I have owned several corvettes my first was a 77 white coupe t tops and was the biggest piece of sh%# I have owned fit and finish out of the St Louis plant was an afterthought and with only 8 in of suspension travel rode like a log wagon. The fastest thing about that car was the power windows, also owned a 1991 ZR1 loved the car but was always in the shop for the proformance mode
My 16 yr old son drives a 95 Vette I bought a few months ago from the dealership I work for and what a sweet ride. just a base coupe with auto leather and duel power seats but only 44,000 miles and damn near perfect.
I now have a 2008 ZO6 and this car is scary fast and can be driven daily but I dont and is by far heads and sholders the best Vette I have driven in all aspects except the 95 is just plain FUN
Guess my point is he can drive that car on nice days and put 3 to 5 k a year on it and when I sell it in 4 or 5 years I will get within 3 or 4 thousand dollars of what I paid for it.
Try doing that with a Cobalt for the same money
JMO
Greg
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