I used E85 for 3 years, 30000 miles. How much experience do you have with it ?

My fuel lines were replaced before running E85. More as a maintenance thing than anything. They were 23 years old.

 

For the guys that have replaced your 25 year old rubber in the fuel system and have alcohol resistant injectors burn on. The Corn fuel is fine with a touch of gas mileage decrease. For a guy like me running all original rubber I go to Oklahoma for my vettes non corn gas. Vettes of our generation burn when fuel lines fail up front as has happened many times. Im very picky inspecting my car as all should be. Will I change my lines eventually yes. But in the mean time I will not help in the demise of my fuel system. I burn corn fuel in my 66 vettes fuel system and have seen in the past how fast it eats the rubber lines. My holley carb has stainless needle and seats due to the e10 destroying the viton seats.

 

Holy smokes, so I've been running E10 for 13 years and it's going to ruin my motor? This is a big oil campaign to demonize corn. Nothing more, and nothing less. As has been stated E85 can be tuned for, and E10 mixture needs no modification.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by milsurpman

For the guys that have replaced your 25 year old rubber in the fuel system and have alcohol resistant injectors burn on. The Corn fuel is fine with a touch of gas mileage decrease. For a guy like me running all original rubber I go to Oklahoma for my vettes non corn gas. Vettes of our generation burn when fuel lines fail up front as has happened many times. Im very picky inspecting my car as all should be. Will I change my lines eventually yes. But in the mean time I will not help in the demise of my fuel system. I burn corn fuel in my 66 vettes fuel system and have seen in the past how fast it eats the rubber lines. My holley carb has stainless needle and seats due to the e10 destroying the viton seats.

Again, my lines are orig. with the car. Also, my owners manual on page 242 states that 10 percent is ok to use. Now I suspect the reason the limit is 10% is the tune. And so far e85 has not caused any problems. I do have larger injectors and its tuned for it. As you said we should know our car and take care of it. That could start with reading the owners manual and not believing all the internet myths out there.

 

I have been running E85 for years with the stock parts. Well some parts have been switched out as my combo changed. I do still have the stock lines and haven't had any trouble. I switched when I kept chasing after knock counts in the tune. I also like that working on while it's running doesn't bother me. Alky fumes are far better than gas fumes!

You don't need top end lube for E85 or under. Top end lube might be something to consider with E98 or methanol.

There was an article I read in Grassroots Motorsports where they tested different fuels. E10 did fine! Here I took a picture:

 

Interesting and hot topic. Lots of different opinions. Remember, these TPI motors were designed in the early 80s. I doubt they had ethanol on the list of fuels they could burn. Now E10 doesnt sound like much, 10%, really, they should handle it, right? I think they really starting designing for E10 like in 2006, and they back dated the autos to 2000 which could handle it. Now when E15 comes out, that might be another story. I think the ethanol hurts our cars when it sits in the tank for long periods of time. Daily drivers prolly ok. I use premium fuel in my IROC and C4, but my 2003 truck and economy car get 87. No problems so far, but i am using some fuel adders. If i had my way, i would buy E-free for all my autos. But the nearest pump is 30 miles away, and not on my daily travel route. Most Fast-Tracs around here have it, it is 92 octane and costs more than premium. But i would go for it. I think 2012 and newer vehicles are rated for E15.
This is America. We should have the choice of what fuel to put in our autos. Not some government mandated fuel. All pumps should have E0, E10, E15, E85 or E whatever. That way, whatever you drive, can get the fuel it needs. What about real older classic cars, like 60s and 70s? How are they running on this E-crap?

Also, the stoic ratio for pure gas, (E-free) is 14.64. For E10 is is 14.08 and E15 it is 13.79. So yes, you can adjust your tune for it.

 

Dont be bringing facts into this. I read on the internet, alcohol is bad. It must be true.

 

Bill

 

I would think the stock injectors would be too small for E85. With a stoichiometric AFR of 9.76:1 you need a LOT more fuel.

About 1/3 more according to my calculation: [(14.7 - 9.76)/14.7] * 100% = 33%

The O2 sensor doesn't care -- it's just measuring lambda. The rubber fuel lines need to be ethanol resistant. It's well known that Multec injectors have a problem with the ethanol dissolving the insulation on the coil windings. Is there enough room in the stock BLM or LTFT tables for the richer mixture without modifying the parameters?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Harris

I would think the stock injectors would be too small for E85. With a stoichiometric AFR of 9.76:1 you need a LOT more fuel.

I am no tuner!! But its my understanding that stays the same. Computer I think works from 108-160 on BLM and you still target for 128.

 

The are over 100 gas stations in Oregon that sell Non-E.
go to pure-gas.org.
They also have a great app for your smart phone. I just uploaded it and it
tells the distance from your location to non-e stations.... however, not all stations are set up to pump - for example, we stopped at one station w/ non-e - sold in 5 gal cans only....

 

that is a good site......245 E-free stations in upstate NY, just none nearby where i live!

 

There are several places around me that sell non-alcohol gas, it's about $1.50 more a gallon than gasahol. It's also labeled for collector cars, small engines etc on the pump at the station I use mostly. The nozzel on that pump is the old style larger one so it won't fit into a tank neck with the reducer in it.

I was around when they removed lead from gas and started blending gasahol. In the early days, it ate up seals etc in carbs, fuel lines and reported to loosen the rust scale in the tanks and plug up the pickup or fuel filters. I think most of the parts now days is designed to tolerate the alcohol but you need to retune to run E-85 to get any advantage out of it due to the higher octane rating vs gasahold (as I understand it). My truck is a dual fuel, and even the mfg states to fill with a regular blend every so often if you're running mainly E-85. Mileage sucks when I've tried E-85 in the truck.
I think it was about a year ago, Hot Rod magazine did an article on a smc that they set up to run on E-85, might be work reading if that's something you're considering.

 

Here in Upstate New York we have to deal with "tier 2" gas, not the best stuff available. However, we are seeing more stations adding ethanol free gas at the pumps. I protect my 84 with K-100, 1-8 oz bottle treats 20 gallons every other fill up. When I store it for the winter, I use as much gas as is in the tank as I dare, then fill up with fresh gas and a bottle of K-100. The K-100 not only keeps the gas fresh, it will also stop any phase separation that may occur from any ethanol that may be present in the "ethanol free" tanks. 'Cause it all travels through the same pipe!

 

There are no advantages for your car using ethanol, and no advantage environmentally. The US government subsidizes corn production, so we need to put it in makeup, fuel, soda, damn near anywhere we can.

 

I looked up your magic K-100 potion. Looks like good stuff, but can you buy it locally? i never heard of it. A little pricey buying online. I mostly use Star-Tron, and Stabil products. And every so often i put in a bottle of Lucas upper cylinder cleaner to a full tank. It helped my MPGs in my Camaro, at least i think it did.

 

Guilford is a few miles south of New Berlin, where there is a Stewart's. Stewart's Shops sells it, as do many NAPA stores. $8.00 for an 8 oz bottle, but there is a bigger bottle, I think it's 24 oz, for $19.99.There are a lot of products on the market that can claim that they "treat" ethanol gas, and rightly so. You can pour milk into your fuel tank and "treat" your gas, too. K-100 is the only product on the market that addresses the problem of phase separation, and that, along with the damage E-10 does to older fuel systems, is where the problems lie. Phase separation occurs when water is formed in the gas tank due to the ethanol being present. K-100 surrounds the water and can actually make water burn, allowing it to pass harmlessly thru the fuel system. No, I don't sell or market the stuff. I just know that it does work. It will also save your lawn mower, snow blower, and marine engine from a premature death, due to the effect that ethanol has on plastic carburetor parts. When, not if, but when E-15 is shoved down our throats, the problems will get even worse.

 

Well i know of the Stewarts shops, but they are not on my normal travel route. We certainly have Napa stores around here, so i will check that out. I am well aware of what phase seperation is with the E-10. Star-Tron is said to combat that, and it is readily available around here, in many stores. I am certainly not afraid to pay a little more for a good product. I use the marine grade of Stabil in all my 5 gal storage pails, for powering my small engines. Several years ago my 2000 Yam ATV had running problems, and i found that it would only run on treated fuel. And last winter my snowblower had issues, basically cleaned the carb and fuel tank, and had to adjust the mixture to get it to smooth out.
Like you said, i am more gravely worried about this E15 coming.

 

I use the puregas website to find non-ethanol fuel in NC. We have a local Shell dealer who has a 100% premium gasoline pump which I use. It's more expensive but it is premium with no ethanol. I don't think ethanol is much of an issue with a DD but for those cars which are stored in the garage and driven only occasionally it could be a problem with water absorption and corrosion of OEM fuel system materials. I'm not recommending you allow fuel to get a year old but before ethanol some brands stated on their website that their fuel was designed to store for one year and still be OK to use. I would never try that with ethanol fuels. The motorcycle and small engine folks are having a lot of trouble with it also.

I think "green" is just the sales pitch for general consumption of the masses and the real reason it's here is politics.

 

Oh crap...I better run out and fix both of my motorcycles, both my chain saws, heck every piece of equipment out in the shed because of "all the problems the motorcycle and small engines folks are having".... People need to quit buying into the the big oil fear campaign....