Drove my neighbors C5 ...Just didn't have that "feel"....Guess I'm stuck on the "ol" C4 , He had a six speed, wasn't to impressed...Have to get him up to the four lanes for road test...lol

 

I own both and I've also owned a C6 and a C5 ZO6. I love my 1995 for what it is and it's my daily driver. The 2003 my wife drives daily. Like each generation they make improvements and that's technology. The '03 is easier to get out of, better gas mileage, no opti and the list goes on. I do love the LS1 motor! My '95 feels and fits more like a sports car and isn't as refined as the C5. I love all Corvettes and except each generation for what they are.

 

All depends what you want from a car and what you plan to do to it if anything. Im stuck on the c4 styling still and many things that appear to be negatives that I feel are more 'exotic' feeling like the seating position and high sills and centre tunnel. When modified and lowered etc it does a fantastic job for me making it feel incredibly special.

The c5/6/7 are stiffer, ride better, more comfortable, more roomy and fuel efficient etc etc. as mentioned earlier time marches on and every gen will surpass the previous (or should anyways) in the non subjective categories. All those things listed above.. can also be obtained with a new dodge caravan

 

Had an 89 and now own a C5Z. 2 different cars, but my Z out performs my previous 89 in every category.

 

Shocker!! It would be a real shame if it didn't, huh?

 

I see these threads All the time 'my c6 z06 beats my 93'

Wow. Newsflash

I'm also amazed by the people who can't do mods. Totally reliant on whatever GM gave them. (And there's those that don't want too, which is ok)

There is also the misguided belief that a modd LSx just is going to beat the pants off of a modd SBC and that's bs too.

Once you Are talking boost, the freer flowing heads of the LSx series start becoming more meaningless.
All that said, I will concede the LSx is going to cost you less to mod with all the competition in parts that there is for those cars.

 

Back in 99 I bought a 97, and loved how refined it was over my 92. I did heads cam and all bolt ons, it was a great car. At the time there was a lot of talk about how the C5 was so much more refined than the Viper, and I loved the C5. I have since owned another C5, a 99 which I still own and two C6's which I currently own an 05 6speed. I like both of those cars, but I still enjoy driving my 92 the most which I still own.

The C4 offers a raw fell that I think is somewhat lost in the newer generations.
But, I love all Corvettes for what they are

 

6 bolt mains. >>>> at best 4. To say nothing of the lightyears more advanced ignition and computers.
120lbs weight savings if you go AL.
Also, those heads you think don't matter?
Good luck building an SBC that can be used as a DD, with over 1k hp, because frankly it isn't gonna happen. The most wild C4 I know of, with an LTX under the hood is thumping 800 horsepower or so.
The LSX really is that much better.

A modded LSX, mod for mod is going to make anywhere from 50 to 100 more hp than a comparably modded SBC.
A BBC can equal an LSX in power production, and gives up several hundred pounds in terms of weight to the LSX. An SBC isn't.

Sorry but the LSX WILL beat the pants off a Gen 1 and 2 SBC.

The SBC isn't a bad engine. Ford has only just now built an engine that's really the SBC's true equal (and that remains to be seen with the aftermarket if it's going to support the new 5.0). But it's not the best thing out there anymore, and that's okay.

Unlike the Gen2 which was a lateral move at best, the Gen 3, and now the Gen 4s are the most advanced. Of course they're going to be better.

Just to get what an LS-1 starts with, you have to mod an SBC. Now, put those same mods on an LS-1, and you're talking over 450hp, without even trying hard. Punch up that same SBCs displacement to a 383? It'll be short of an LS3...stock. Mod an LS3? Now you're talking over 500 horsepower, that can still turn in over 20mpg, and is still ready for boost later.

Boost?
What do you think is going to make more power, the engine that starts at 350 horsepower, with 8psi added to it (which the LSX can go more on boost than an SBC can. Because of the block architecture alone being good enough to equal the SBC's iron block's strength, to say nothing of the SIX bolt mains), or one that made 300 with 8psi?

And it only becomes more dramatic the higher the boost goes, as the LSX's better breathing, better electronics, SIX bolt mains, will carry it farther than the SBC's parts will. And once you start talking gutting, the internals, because you've surpassed what the stock parts will handle, the LSX will -again- step up and over.

Like I said, it's ok for the SBC to be outgunned. Technology moves forward. It's still a damn good engine, and I've still got one in my C4. But if I wanted all in performance, SBC would be yanked out, and an LSX would be put in.

 

Opened up the wrong topic......sorry...My 2 C4's (86, 90) just make you feel like your part of the car. The neighbors C5 ran great. But just didn't have that"feel". Yea it was easy to get in an out of. I didn't run it like my cars....Didn't want to fix it if I broke it...Later

 

Also consider parts availability for the LT1.

How easy/hard is it to find a good, and reliable optispark now? What do you think people should do when replacement optis are no longer available?

Remember DART scrapped their LT1 block project in 2009. I don't remember the exact reasons, but I do know LT1 support has only gotten worse since then.

As for LSx and SBC. The LS really are just that much better. I get better economy (MPG), more power, better idle, better ignition, better parts availability, and much more.

 

We will agree to disagree

Go look on c4 forced induction right now at a nelSon racing build twin turbo based on SBC. Way over 1000 RWHP.

The big hp SBC and LTx guys aren't here much on this site. Some were here (and banned) others have moved onto different projects. Aaron @aks racing was one of those guys 950 RWHP in his yellow 87 vert that ran 9s on the factory d44 IRS. YouTube an 8 second c4 running on the d44 IRS as another great car out there surely putting down 900 or so rwhp

AFR has come out with 245 heads for SBC that eliminate the pushrod pinch.

As for 6 Bolt mains on an aluminum block? I'd rather do 4 bolt splayed mains on a steel block.

LTx Effectively 5 bolts around each cylinder vs 4 boots/cylinder holding the heads on LSx.

120 lbs weight savings. BS flag. The block saves 60 lbs. plus if you want really high HP you will want the iron block LSx (negating any weight savings) to minimize bore distort.

The computer? I have boosted mine and my 93 uses a 2 bar map sensor with a work around to fuel as based on boost. It works fine. You can always Go with an aftermarket computer. The optispArk works great for me. I don't have issues with it because I have been smart about my parts and install.

LSx motors are benefitting from the forced induction technology that was perfected when the LSx was already in existence.

Back when the SBC was out, supercharger, nitrous, e85, turbo and meth water injection technology was not available or understood like it is today. This is why you see LSx with high HP numbers.
Again Go look at the Nelson racing build on c4 forced induction as an example of what can be done on an SBC with today's forced induction know how.

Now I will concede the parts are cheaper for lsx
If I was doing a natural aspirated build for road race...the 60 lb alum block weight savings would benefit me and I'd strongly consider that route.

But boost is the only way to make big power and it would be toss up (parts cost aside) of which way I'd go .

I'm not saying the LSx is worse. Just not as much better as you are saying it is (once you start talking boost).

 

Your car is incredible special!

Any LSx powered Corvette is much quicker than a stock or near stock C4 but at this point in time that's not news. There's lots of reasons for choosing one generation over another. When it comes to the C4 the most popular seem to be the price point and driving position. Also it's the simplest of the modern Corvettes to work on. That may be important to some of us who do a lot of there own repairs and maintenance.
Having any of the 7 generations of Corvettes is better than no Corvette at all.

 

And NONE of those cars is capable of running pump gas, at this point in time now are they. Not even with meth injection. A 1k hp LSX Can with meth injection.

900 is the absolute limit on pump gas with an SBC, with meth injection.

Want to know what an LSX can do on race gas? 2500. Easy.

Not only that a 1k hp LSX is a very streetable tame engine. It's not a barely running, can't idle monster that can't even be fed 93 octane without blowing it's parts all over the place, like a Gen 1 and 2 at that level.

By the way AFR heads only equal STOCK LSX heads. They don't surpass aftermarket or ported heads for that matter.

actually yes 120lbs, no bs. The LSX's weight, is compared to the L98 and LT1s in AL trim. Those intakes on Gen 1 and 2? are Heavy. The LSX's is composite, and weighs less than 5lbs. It's not just the heads and block that are a huge weight savings.
And yes the block IS stronger, in aluminum than our blocks are in Iron, sorry. No amount of wishful thinking is going to change that, let alone the again big jump in strength of an Iron LSX vs an Iron SBC.

Also an LSX won't fail just because you wash the engine either like the Gen 2 does.

And no, the 4bolt mains isn't better in an SBC than any LSX (by the way the iron blocks have 6 bolts as well) mains.

Also, by the way Meth injection has been around forever. It was certainly available in 1985, when the paxton supercharger was brand new. (How do I know this? I have a Paxton sitting in the trunk of another car, and the installation manual, and guess what it's using.)

It is EVERY bit better, and more.

Like I said there's nothing wrong with an SBC. But it's not top dog anymore, and never will be.

It's not just "we don't understand things like now!" Companies have continued to upgrade, SBC parts over the years, they weren't frozen in time in the 80s and 90s either. And part for part the LSX is better, period.

The electronics end of things alone.

 

You got that right. Try a C6...it's even worse.

 

Just My opinion, I bought a new 04 and drove it as a DD for 10 years and 165K trouble free miles. While it was a great driver and very comfortable I just viewed it as just a car, I did not hesitate to sell it last year and buy another C4. The C4 has a much better sports car feel then the C5 touring car feel.

 

More than a few of us have ended up with more than one generation of Corvette. To try to make a C4 as good as a later generation is an expensive (maybe impossible) task and I decided to maintain a newer vette. The best course of action is to add about 100hp to your C4, but to be satisfied with that, because if you want to out handle, outbrake, or out power the newer stuff, pound for pound, mod for mod, and dollar for dollar, the newer stuff is better. Only the cover charge (purchase price) is higher for the newer cars.

just do the easy improvements to a C4 and enjoy the road feel and the fact that there aren't very many clean ones left roaming the streets.

 

Yep. I long ago came to the conclusion that I am just going to give mine some modern features like an up to date sound and entertainment system, and some performance upgrades like my supercharger, full exhaust, maybe a cam, and 400 cubes, and the handling goodies I've already put on it, along with some C6 ZO6 brakes
and enjoy it. It's not going to barn burn a C6 ZR1...pretty much ever, or a ZO6. Hell it'd be lucky to do it to a C6 GS. Let alone the new C7s. My vette is my street car, that's it's purpose.

As far as whupping up on a modern car goes, that's what my Camaro project is for. BBC stroker, supercharger, (My target is 750 to 800hp with it, and torque to match or better) hopefully either a gen 5 IRS, or an IRS out of a GTO, brakes, a roll bar, hell maybe cage, and some C6 ZO6 brakes and a T-56 swap. THAT will barn burn a modern car down to the ground. But..it's not going to be a Gen 3 camaro anymore, in anything but the body. And probably won't be the most efficient car ever.

Neither car is going to be cheap to do it in.

 

Reality:

C4≠C5
C4C4
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Reality:

C4 ≠ C5
C4 < C5
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http://petrisenterprises.com/optispark-distributor/