dizwiz24

IMHO , kids these days would rather chase tail by getting up early and running in a half marathon and drinking a craft beer at the after party vs. cruise ins, staying home fixing / waxing it up.

it is also a money thing too. less good paying corporate jobs . more low paying stuff

DGXR

Back when the ZR-1 came out, that may have been a lot of power for the day but many good drivers were able to handle that level of power. Now, look at the stupid horsepower in the Dodge Demons and C7 ZR1s and upcoming Shelby GT500. This level of horsepower is available to anyone with more cash than brains, which (unfortunately) is a lot of people.

So a cool and powerful car is not as not exclusive as it used to be, and as a result it's not appreciated the way it used to be. Plus as you said, you can't really use the power safely on public roads -- everyone's on GPS and making last-second moves to catch their exit or get into the correct turn lane. This makes it dangerous to pass cars at a high rate of speed... you never know when a driver will regain consciousness and realize they have to turn *now*. A big SMH & facepalm for driving enthusiasts everywhere.

73n95

The entire eenthusiast car thing is interesting. Old cars have no intrinsic value other than demand is greater than supply. Pay attention here, by supply I don't mean rarity. Just because you have one of one made does not make it valuable. Someone has to want it. Those horrible option packages are not all desirable. Someone has to want it. The investment world has just about destroyed our hobby by putting a perceived future value higher than other investments. Muscle cars and hot rods are valuable because someone wants them. They really aren't that good, just relatively rare. Its a complicated world. Used to be that Corvettes represented speed but then the carmakers discovered any car could be made fast with technology. Enthusiast cars had no choice but to push the envelope. I've often heard that anything more than 350HP is just a waste. Personally I get along with 300 just fine. So where is this going? I predict that as long as there is gasoline our passion is safe. While model T's and Ford roadsters are no longer in demand they still have their following. Hot rods will always have a following. I went to a recent "Cars and Coffee" show. It was interesting. Among the turbocharged Honda's and Subies, Mustangs and Corvettes the most interesting car (to me) was a 1966 Mercury Comet with a Cleveland 351 that was so beautifully, meticulously restored that I couldn't help but admire the machine. If someone had showed up with a 3 window coupe with a flathead it would have stolen the show. C5's and newer are so common place that they garner no interest. C3's are more rare and get a fair amount of attention. A nice C4 is getting there. Today's youths relate to Asian and European cars of the 80's and 90's. Mainly because our own cars were flat out boring. All our carmakers were trying to make is money, not cars. Most of the performance consisted of stickers and glitz where the Asians were dropping in turbo's and all wheel drive in their economy cars. That's what today's kids like. Going forward a nice Corvette will always get some attention, not like in the past but heck, that's progress. I can't help but wonder what the scene will be like when the electrics get here en-mass. They are incredibly fast but boring. Indeed our sport is evolving, but its not going away. Not till they take our keys away and totally control the highways. Peace out.

rblakeney

I like this thread and have been thinking a few of these thoughts lately since I purchased an '89 coupe with manual this past spring. I like the way the car feels, sounds, and drives and it makes me happy. Many of you have pointed out that more modern cars are just better engineered and built (and I have a 2007 300C SRT8 that will utterly spank the "vette) but I enjoy driving each for different reasons. I think we are seeing some amazing cars these days across most of the manufacturers and I agree with a previous post that we are, and are getting, spoiled. Maybe the gasoline powered auto mobile HAS peaked.

Some quick comparisons here on a quiet Monday morning:

1971 Pantera V8 = 330HP
1970 Espada V12 = 345HP
1975 Ferrari 308 V8 = 255HP
1974 Corvette 454 V8 = 275HP
1989 Corvette L98 V8 = 245HP

2016 Chrysler T&C V6 = 283HP
2016 Mustang V6 = 300HP
2016 Chevy Impala V6 = 305HP
More?

We are so good at building engines these days that what was once exotic is now mundane. I am simply amazed at what we are getting out of naturally aspirated V6s these days.

DGXR

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this statement. I agree, the statement is true, I just don't quite understand how. Maybe it's the whoosh of acceleration without any personality or flavor -- high efficiency at the expense of excitement.

But buried deep within this simple statement is the answer to the questions in this thread, at least for me. Mixed feelings...

81c3

You forgot the Mustang 4 cylinder Turbo... 300+ hp...

Cool Runnings

Had a car guy help with a radiator flush today on the 92. He's a 50's/ 60's collector. He told me lot's of guys are using the older corvette motors and front ends in 55 Chey's now. Very cool. Open up the hood on the 55 and you got a LT1 or Tuned Port Injection Corvette motor.

Cool Runnings

My daily driver is a Dodge Avenger with the V6 Pentastar (283hp)with Mopar CAI and Corsa cat-back. It's faster than MOST cars on the road.

Cool Runnings

Got a high performace ride in one with the 6M. That car is fast. I think they are 315lbs torque.

Pile_Driver

I wonder if people had this same conversation in 1968-1972. Mopar Scat Packs, Pontiac Super Duties and Wide Tracks, etc. The muscle car boom of that time frame had to make post-war cars - even hot-rodded ones - seem boring. Many of those new muscle cars had stereos, disc brakes, air conditioning, seat belts, padded dashes, limited slip diffs, etc.

My local drag strip has a test and tune night about twice a month. The facility is full of new muscle - and mostly driven by 30-and-under folks. Just because ET's have dropped with seemingly effortless ease, I don't think they are any less excited to be matching their ride up against their buddy's ride then when it was done on a back road 50 years ago.

Frankly, I think this is a great time to be car guy. The new technology is frankly jaw dropping. If you have the money, you can buy a Camaro which will hang with some of the best Europe has to offer. You can buy a family car with immense amounts of power and comfort and safety. Mopar as usual, is pushing the envelop of what it brings to the masses. This new muscle is finally changing the tide of ever rising prices of classic muscle. You can now buy new muscle to scratch the itch for absolute performance or scratch the nostalgia itch and buy vintage muscle which may not compete on the track, but is still a blast to drive on the street.

You'll hear no laments from me - it's a great day to be a car guy.

rblakeney

How about do more than hang?
M4 vs. Camaro

rblakeney

Was this the one with the wild double spoiler on the rear?

johno504

225 hp 2.3 Pinto engine SVO in 1986. that car cost $5k more than 5.0 GT.

johno504

get your self a twin BBC 900 hp Cigarette boat. problem solved.

Cool Runnings

Those old tunnel hulls from the 80's with twin 2.4L outboards could push well over 100mph. Remember when fast boats were all the rage.


Now everyone wants a bass or pontoon boat.


Reminds me of the jet boats from the 60's.

mtwoolford

you're going to see a lot of dead cops

81c3

I'm not sure Id agree with that.... Police officers are also trained in driving maneuvers. I'm pretty sure the rise in dead officers will continue to be at the hands of douche bags with guns shooting at them just because they're in uniform rather than fast Hellcats.... JMO...

Tom400CFI

Refinement, mostly. A 400, 500, 600hp engine idle as smooth as a 200 hp engine did from the 80's. How did a small block 400, 500, 600 hp engine from the '80's idle?

Add in the sluggish e-throttle, e-safety net ("no consequences"), WEIGHT and a 500 hp car of today most definitely does not provide the rush or "amusement park ride" experience that a 500 hp car of the '80s did. They just don't. It takes 2x as much power to provide the same experience....all the while you've launched WAY into liability territory w/o even really knowing it. Refinement.



Or a fuggin "wake boat". OMG I hate those things. Remember when the goal of a ski boat was to limit it's own mark on the water as much as possible? Boats were engineered specifically to minimize their wake. A side benefit was lower weight, higher performance, better fuel economy. Now, we have people paying $110k+ for 5500 lb boats with 700hp, that take on 3500 lbs of ballast and consume 15-20 gph going 12 mph. 55 gph at WOT (44 mph). It's insane.

I had an '84 Hydrostream that would crack 90 mph w/a 200 outboard. We'd ski all weekend on two 6 gallon tanks. What boat could do that today? NONE, that I know of. Well...part of the problem there too, is that a 200 hp outboard doesn't weigh 380 lbs anymore...it weighs 5-800 lbs.

Cool Runnings

Hydrostream was manufactured by Pipcorn, about 5 miles away from me.

pologreen1

Yes, way too refined. The suspension grips amazing, tires are big, electronics to help, etc... So it's quick or fast, but put your self in an LS powered s2000 like on YT or something and the sketchyness makes the ride. Like the idea of an AC cobra. Lots of power, light weight, and back then probably sub par brakes compared to now. Suspension was no where near as refined and the technology was not there.

It is a ton of power these days but it feels cut in half to me with all the gadgets. Lap times are awesome and whatever, but sometimes less is more.

Depends if you like refined luxury or if you like the adrenaline rush and connection with the road through all the bumps, squeaks, rattles, poor traction, smelly exhasut and nasty cams rattling your mirrors off.