GM Rant Vent
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 120
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From: Leesburg in
GM Rant Vent
Sorry, after yesterday's oil change at the GM dealership, I blew a gasket and sent this letter to GM.
:rant:
October 23, 2003
General Motors Complaint Department
Dear Sir or Madam:
I am writing you to convey concerns I have with your products and services rendered from a local dealership.
First of all, I have owned several GM products in the past. From my experiences, quality has been mediocre at best. A few years ago, I bought a 1996 Astro minivan from the local “BIG” GM dealer. During the year I owned it, I had to return the van 3 times to have the same power window control fixed.
Recently, my brother purchased a 2003 Oldsmobile Aurora. This car has been in for service repair on at least 4 different occasions. He has logged almost as many miles on loaner cars as the one he bought! The look on his face when after spending $34,000 on a car, only to have the GLUE, holding the molding in the trunk separate 1 week after his purchase, is something your design engineers should see. This is not the way to build repeat customers!
Last April, I bought a 1990 Corvette. What a challenge this car has presented. Immediately, I had to replace the Delco Injectors with Bosh. Defects in Delco injectors, has been well documented. Thus far, I have spent close to $3,000 fixing all the GM defects with this car. As I tally up all my repairs, Delco Electronics usually is the cause. Quality problems there must be overwhelming. And, with more of your electronics-manufacturing coming from Mexico and other 3rd world countries, I suspect this trend will continue.
Next, I would like to express my concern with the Dealership. From my experiences with the 1996 AstroVan and the Corvette, I snicker at the Mr. GoodWrench advertisements. On two occasions, I had the local Kelly dealership that sells Corvettes work on mine. On the first, they replaced the VATS system. When I picked it up, grease was all over the doors and broken parts littered the floor. A week later, it was towed in with the same non-starting problem. This time, they claimed it was the alternator. This whole fiasco cost me around a $1,000.
On another occasion, I took the Corvette to another Kelly dealership. This one sells Pontiac and Buick. (IMO: some of most the most repulsive looking vehicles on the market) I thought, that since it was a GM dealership, an experienced GM mechanic might be able to determine why my Inflatable Restraint light was on. I was wrong here too! I actually talked to the mechanic who conveyed that he didn’t know anything about Corvettes. So why was his head under my hood? Of course, I was charged $80 for them to hook up their computer that didn’t tell us anything. After consulting a Corvette Forum, I fixed it myself for $1.50. (The cost of Dielectric grease). BTW: this is another GM defect that was fixed on the 1991 models. Thanks again to your “brilliant” engineers.
Until yesterday, I only trusted this dealership to change oil. I mean if a monkey can do it, Mr. Goodwrench should, right? After about 30 minutes of waiting, I was informed their racks were too high for my car to fit. What??? They then drove my car across the street to a 10-minute oil change to get the job done. I drove out 90 minutes later with grease on the car doors again, and a Penzoil filter where a Delco should have been. Could this be the world’s longest oil change on record?
The funny thing is, the 10-minute oil change is also owned by the Kelly group. Penzoil, along with Fram, are some of the worst brands on the market. Is Kelly trying to drum up more business for their service center? I have certainly made up my mind about this dealership. Does this reflect back on GM as a whole? You bet!
In a year where a Japanese automaker has exceeded GM in domestic sells for the first time, one would hope that some constructive criticism would be of value to you. My concern for your company’s product’s, distributors and service is born from my desire to see GM and all domestic companies succeed.
Sincerely,
:rant:
October 23, 2003
General Motors Complaint Department
Dear Sir or Madam:
I am writing you to convey concerns I have with your products and services rendered from a local dealership.
First of all, I have owned several GM products in the past. From my experiences, quality has been mediocre at best. A few years ago, I bought a 1996 Astro minivan from the local “BIG” GM dealer. During the year I owned it, I had to return the van 3 times to have the same power window control fixed.
Recently, my brother purchased a 2003 Oldsmobile Aurora. This car has been in for service repair on at least 4 different occasions. He has logged almost as many miles on loaner cars as the one he bought! The look on his face when after spending $34,000 on a car, only to have the GLUE, holding the molding in the trunk separate 1 week after his purchase, is something your design engineers should see. This is not the way to build repeat customers!
Last April, I bought a 1990 Corvette. What a challenge this car has presented. Immediately, I had to replace the Delco Injectors with Bosh. Defects in Delco injectors, has been well documented. Thus far, I have spent close to $3,000 fixing all the GM defects with this car. As I tally up all my repairs, Delco Electronics usually is the cause. Quality problems there must be overwhelming. And, with more of your electronics-manufacturing coming from Mexico and other 3rd world countries, I suspect this trend will continue.
Next, I would like to express my concern with the Dealership. From my experiences with the 1996 AstroVan and the Corvette, I snicker at the Mr. GoodWrench advertisements. On two occasions, I had the local Kelly dealership that sells Corvettes work on mine. On the first, they replaced the VATS system. When I picked it up, grease was all over the doors and broken parts littered the floor. A week later, it was towed in with the same non-starting problem. This time, they claimed it was the alternator. This whole fiasco cost me around a $1,000.
On another occasion, I took the Corvette to another Kelly dealership. This one sells Pontiac and Buick. (IMO: some of most the most repulsive looking vehicles on the market) I thought, that since it was a GM dealership, an experienced GM mechanic might be able to determine why my Inflatable Restraint light was on. I was wrong here too! I actually talked to the mechanic who conveyed that he didn’t know anything about Corvettes. So why was his head under my hood? Of course, I was charged $80 for them to hook up their computer that didn’t tell us anything. After consulting a Corvette Forum, I fixed it myself for $1.50. (The cost of Dielectric grease). BTW: this is another GM defect that was fixed on the 1991 models. Thanks again to your “brilliant” engineers.
Until yesterday, I only trusted this dealership to change oil. I mean if a monkey can do it, Mr. Goodwrench should, right? After about 30 minutes of waiting, I was informed their racks were too high for my car to fit. What??? They then drove my car across the street to a 10-minute oil change to get the job done. I drove out 90 minutes later with grease on the car doors again, and a Penzoil filter where a Delco should have been. Could this be the world’s longest oil change on record?
The funny thing is, the 10-minute oil change is also owned by the Kelly group. Penzoil, along with Fram, are some of the worst brands on the market. Is Kelly trying to drum up more business for their service center? I have certainly made up my mind about this dealership. Does this reflect back on GM as a whole? You bet!
In a year where a Japanese automaker has exceeded GM in domestic sells for the first time, one would hope that some constructive criticism would be of value to you. My concern for your company’s product’s, distributors and service is born from my desire to see GM and all domestic companies succeed.
Sincerely,
Pro
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
From: Richmond VA
Re: GM Rant Vent (lakerat)
I hear ya Lakerat....My Vette has been in the shop more times in the first year I have owned it than EVERY Japanese vehicle I have owned in the last 15 years COMBINED.
It is truly sad that the build quality, fit & finish on GM's flagship isn't up to par with the cheapest Toyota or Honda. And they are STILL doing it. Go read C5 tech or General and look at all the horror stories. Column lock, rocking seats, cheap leather, interior quality straight out of your Astro Van, leaking rear differentials, blown ECM's....etc...etc....
I'm sure some of our chest beating, flag waving comrades will jump on now and say how wonderful GM quality is, how they have only driven GM for 30 years, how their father, mother, aunt, uncle etc works for GM, how un-American it is to say Japanese cars are better....blah blah blah...
Well they are correct....buying a GM does help the American economy....it keeps your mechanic happy :rolleyes:
It is truly sad that the build quality, fit & finish on GM's flagship isn't up to par with the cheapest Toyota or Honda. And they are STILL doing it. Go read C5 tech or General and look at all the horror stories. Column lock, rocking seats, cheap leather, interior quality straight out of your Astro Van, leaking rear differentials, blown ECM's....etc...etc....
I'm sure some of our chest beating, flag waving comrades will jump on now and say how wonderful GM quality is, how they have only driven GM for 30 years, how their father, mother, aunt, uncle etc works for GM, how un-American it is to say Japanese cars are better....blah blah blah...
Well they are correct....buying a GM does help the American economy....it keeps your mechanic happy :rolleyes:
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
From: Newport News VA
Re: GM Rant Vent (lakerat)
No, it helps the Mexican and Canadian economy since that's where most of GMs cars are assembled. Just think what will happen once the Cadillac gets on the Bowling Green assembly line !! GMs just cheap !
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,421
Likes: 8
From: Lake Mary Florida
Re: GM Rant Vent (loknload)
You are correct. They really don't care. With a company that size it all boils down to the profits and returns to the investors. Even if you look at the Corvette line, what they made like roughly 34,000 of them for this year. Think they really care about 1 of 34,000. Then throw all the other models and their run rates. Now your 1 in millions. Who cares if a few are not satisfied. Those surveys and the programs dealers run to get 100% satisfied from their customer are so bogus. I think on the last 3 new GM vehicles I bought the dealer pre-filled them out or they showed you what yours should look like with all the right boxes checked.
Going to GM customer service isn't much help even if you have a very specific problem your dealing with. They just pitch it back to the dealer and put some pressure on them to do something.
To get the most out of a dealer, you really have to find one that your pretty happy with and make acquaintences with those in service. I always try to have a word with the mechanic that worked on the Vette with the service advisor/service manager and let them know how much you appreciate their efforts. Shake hands be nice etc. Doing a little homework before you get there so that maybe you know the discounted prices of a part, you can sometimes negotiate with them before turning it over. Its like an invisible line, if you trash them or get angry, they pretty much don't want to help or go out of their way. But pour on the honey and you can, most of the time, have a pretty good experience with them.
Well that's my 2-cents and I'm sticking to it, LOL.
:chevy
Going to GM customer service isn't much help even if you have a very specific problem your dealing with. They just pitch it back to the dealer and put some pressure on them to do something.
To get the most out of a dealer, you really have to find one that your pretty happy with and make acquaintences with those in service. I always try to have a word with the mechanic that worked on the Vette with the service advisor/service manager and let them know how much you appreciate their efforts. Shake hands be nice etc. Doing a little homework before you get there so that maybe you know the discounted prices of a part, you can sometimes negotiate with them before turning it over. Its like an invisible line, if you trash them or get angry, they pretty much don't want to help or go out of their way. But pour on the honey and you can, most of the time, have a pretty good experience with them.
Well that's my 2-cents and I'm sticking to it, LOL.
:chevy
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 983
Likes: 1
From: Bergen County NJ
Re: GM Rant Vent (CLoNE)
While I've run across a few decent dealership service departments, I find that most of them suck. If you're lucky, the service manager might know what he's doing, but there will be a good share of wrench-turning ding-dongs out on the floor. It's hard enough for them to understand how to fix current cars, but it's even worse you bring them a C4, which has lots of complex wiring and electronics, and they've been out of production long enough for these guys to have forgotten how to fix them. I believe that once the warranty is out you're much better off taking your business to a small shop which is run by an owner who depends on repeat business to pay his bills. I consider myself very fortunate to have a shop like this within walking distance of my house.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,715
Likes: 2
From: Santa Teresa New Mexico
Re: GM Rant Vent (lakerat)
Well, first of we all know that the Japanese are the only people in the world who can build a good car. Thank God for the Japanese.
And when the Japanese learn how to build air liners we'll be safe from Boeing.
Of course since we wont have any industry we won't have to buy any thing Japanese since we won't have any jobs.
A service economy is no economy ask the British.
A 1990 Corvette is an old car. Try driving a 13 year old Totoya, Honda, etc.
As far as GM goes, well they have the Corvette and for me thats all they have.
As far as GM using 3rd world countries to build sub assemblies so does Honda, Toyota, Nissan, VW etc.
The competiton from the imports has not improved the quailty of American cars. The reason, the Japanese under cut the profits of the domestic product to the point of dumping thier cars to gain market share. The domestics have to cut corners to be competitive.
Once the Japanese have gained a market share they raise thier prices to make a profit. The Japanese home market makes up the difference. The domestics cannot do that. The Japanese mfgs are supported by thier goverment. US mfgs are not. The Japanese have high tariff laws to protect thier auto industry, we do not.
When we speak of Japanese auto mfgs there are only two independents,
Honda and Toyota being sold in the US.
Mazda is a Ford product. Nissan is owned by the europeans.
As far as dealership service goes fix it yourself. Those who can't do anything make the worst customers.
Any owner of a repair shop hates dealing with the public.
This is just the other side of the coin. :flag
And when the Japanese learn how to build air liners we'll be safe from Boeing.
Of course since we wont have any industry we won't have to buy any thing Japanese since we won't have any jobs.
A service economy is no economy ask the British.
A 1990 Corvette is an old car. Try driving a 13 year old Totoya, Honda, etc.
As far as GM goes, well they have the Corvette and for me thats all they have.
As far as GM using 3rd world countries to build sub assemblies so does Honda, Toyota, Nissan, VW etc.
The competiton from the imports has not improved the quailty of American cars. The reason, the Japanese under cut the profits of the domestic product to the point of dumping thier cars to gain market share. The domestics have to cut corners to be competitive.
Once the Japanese have gained a market share they raise thier prices to make a profit. The Japanese home market makes up the difference. The domestics cannot do that. The Japanese mfgs are supported by thier goverment. US mfgs are not. The Japanese have high tariff laws to protect thier auto industry, we do not.
When we speak of Japanese auto mfgs there are only two independents,
Honda and Toyota being sold in the US.
Mazda is a Ford product. Nissan is owned by the europeans.
As far as dealership service goes fix it yourself. Those who can't do anything make the worst customers.
Any owner of a repair shop hates dealing with the public.
This is just the other side of the coin. :flag
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Racer
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 403
Likes: 0
From: Palm Harbor FL
Re: GM Rant Vent (redwing76)
[QUOTE]Well, first of we all know that the Japanese are the only people in the world who can build a good car. Thank God for the Japanese.
-Anyone can build a good car if they engineer it right, buy quality parts and run the assembly lines so that problems get fixed there, not in my driveway.-
A 1990 Corvette is an old car. Try driving a 13 year old Totoya, Honda, etc.
As far as GM goes, well they have the Corvette and for me thats all they have.
- I have a 94 vert with 40,000 miles. Almost any Honda or Toyota of similar age and mileage will feel tighter and be more reliable. Move up to an Acura or Lexus and the difference is striking. C4 Corvette's are a performance bargain but they should be a lot more. -
The competiton from the imports has not improved the quailty of American cars.
- Perhaps you don't remember the American made rust buckets of the 50's 60's and 70's. I bought new cars with 20-30 defects that showed up in the first week of driving. Initial build quality of American cars is much better now than it was then and I believe the Japanese pushed GM and Ford to improve. Japan used to make the same crap but decided to market quality and this is what created the opening for them-
-Anyone can build a good car if they engineer it right, buy quality parts and run the assembly lines so that problems get fixed there, not in my driveway.-
A 1990 Corvette is an old car. Try driving a 13 year old Totoya, Honda, etc.
As far as GM goes, well they have the Corvette and for me thats all they have.
- I have a 94 vert with 40,000 miles. Almost any Honda or Toyota of similar age and mileage will feel tighter and be more reliable. Move up to an Acura or Lexus and the difference is striking. C4 Corvette's are a performance bargain but they should be a lot more. -
The competiton from the imports has not improved the quailty of American cars.
- Perhaps you don't remember the American made rust buckets of the 50's 60's and 70's. I bought new cars with 20-30 defects that showed up in the first week of driving. Initial build quality of American cars is much better now than it was then and I believe the Japanese pushed GM and Ford to improve. Japan used to make the same crap but decided to market quality and this is what created the opening for them-
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,671
Likes: 20
From: Lake Wylie SC
Re: GM Rant Vent (redwing76)
There are good guys working in service departments at Chevy dealers. Those you never hear about, just like good news. I could go on about the positive things with GM, but no one would listen or care. About Corvettes, take a step back and think about our C4s. Sure some things need improvement, but GM usually improves on it every year. But look at what our generation Vette can do, and how it does it. I think it is a wonderful piece of machinery and I enjoy working on it. Sorry about you experience with your GM products. Maybe it's time for you to try another product line and compare. That's your choice, ain't America great. :flag :flag :flag
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: Leesburg in
Re: GM Rant Vent (jimb500)
-- Perhaps you don't remember the American made rust buckets of the 50's 60's and 70's. I bought new cars with 20-30 defects that showed up in the first week of driving. Initial build quality of American cars is much better now than it was then and I believe the Japanese pushed GM and Ford to improve. Japan used to make the same crap but decided to market quality and this is what created the opening for them-
But, times are different now with this "world economy". Buy a Honda, and most likely, you're helping out the UAW in Ohio. Buy a Chevy or Ford, and look who's benifiting. My concern is that quality has and will continue to diminish. What will be their incentive to build in quality? If all the players are on the same playground.
I wish, I did had the time/skill/tools to perform all maintenance on my Vette. If we all did, there would be no need for $70/hr mechanics. Would there....
Reality, is that I do what I can. Seek out an expert when needed. And hope that I'm not gonna get screwed. A wise man makes use of his time wisely. I'd rather do what I do, to make the $$ to get my bapy running the best it can and just enjoy! :auto:
Racer
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
From: Gap PA
Re: GM Rant Vent (lakerat)
You get good you get bad, its all a crap shoot in my opinion. You could buy a Dodge, Ford, Toyota, Nissan.....they all could be great cars with great service or they could be crap with crap service. The only reason my family is GM nuts (having a dairy farm with many trucks in service) is because our good friend is contracted to teach OTHER GM techs (even though there moving towards computers, another DUMB DUMB idea), and teaches at a local college for a living. Granted we have had good luck too, but some people will claim the same things I do here, but with a different make.
Sucks that you had so much bad luck with the Vette...good luck. :steering:
Sucks that you had so much bad luck with the Vette...good luck. :steering:
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 7,836
Likes: 1
From: Global Warming My Butt
Re: GM Rant Vent (85RIT)
Yep...I guess this is going to be a tad of a flame...
You are comparing a performance car to a 4 banger (maybe 6) econo car and you want them to rank? Give your head a shake! This isn't apples and oranges...it's apples and potatoes.
What Honda/Toyota performance car do you have experience with that was built in 1990? If you did, then you have a comparison...comparing something that was built to go fast to something that was built to be reliable daily transport is so ridiculous I can't even begin...
Let's see...ever see a 80's Nissan 280ZX? Let me guess...no...probably because the are invisible due to the body falling off from all the rust (if they are still running). There are a few 300Z's still running around...but I don't know the repair records.
*edit* Here is JD Powers reliability records on the 1996 300Z
Midterm Reliability Ratings (1-3 years) definition
Mechanical Reliability 2 out of 5
Body & Interior Reliability 2 out of 5
Feature and Accessory Reliability 2 out of 5
Toyota...hmmm...the only thing that could "mildly" be referred to as a performance car is the Supra (and the TT was an impressive car)...the 80's ones are loooong gone (rusted or quit running)...and there were so few 90's sold we can't comment.
Honda...only car that could be called "performance" is the NSX...and why don't you call a few NSX owners and ask them how much they spend on keeping those cars running...I think you'll be shocked.
Run out and buy a Mitsosushi right now and let's see how many days it spends at the dealership...I'll put my 1996 Corvette up against a brand new ANY Mitsosushi for reliablility ANY day...
/flame off
[Modified by MinnesotaWhite, 1:02 PM 10/24/2003]
You are comparing a performance car to a 4 banger (maybe 6) econo car and you want them to rank? Give your head a shake! This isn't apples and oranges...it's apples and potatoes.
What Honda/Toyota performance car do you have experience with that was built in 1990? If you did, then you have a comparison...comparing something that was built to go fast to something that was built to be reliable daily transport is so ridiculous I can't even begin...
Let's see...ever see a 80's Nissan 280ZX? Let me guess...no...probably because the are invisible due to the body falling off from all the rust (if they are still running). There are a few 300Z's still running around...but I don't know the repair records.
*edit* Here is JD Powers reliability records on the 1996 300Z
Midterm Reliability Ratings (1-3 years) definition
Mechanical Reliability 2 out of 5
Body & Interior Reliability 2 out of 5
Feature and Accessory Reliability 2 out of 5
Toyota...hmmm...the only thing that could "mildly" be referred to as a performance car is the Supra (and the TT was an impressive car)...the 80's ones are loooong gone (rusted or quit running)...and there were so few 90's sold we can't comment.
Honda...only car that could be called "performance" is the NSX...and why don't you call a few NSX owners and ask them how much they spend on keeping those cars running...I think you'll be shocked.
Run out and buy a Mitsosushi right now and let's see how many days it spends at the dealership...I'll put my 1996 Corvette up against a brand new ANY Mitsosushi for reliablility ANY day...
/flame off
[Modified by MinnesotaWhite, 1:02 PM 10/24/2003]
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,362
Likes: 30
From: Oak Harbor WA
Re: GM Rant Vent (MinnesotaWhite)
:iagree: with Minnesota White. Not a fair comparison by any means. We all have bad experiences at one point or another. That's the joy of dealing with people to people.
I don't take my car to the dealers much any longer. I have taken it upon myself to learn to do my own work. Tired of funding other folks retirement on my car. My car has left me stranded only 4 times in the 5 years I have owned it. Sure there are minor issues that come up, but I can live with a cup holder that doesn't hold a 20oz bottle of soda. And I'm not going to whine to GM about problems I am having with my 11 yr old car that is still running and looking pretty darn good in my opinion.
I have yet to own a car, see a car or know somebody with a car (pick a make or model) that doesn't have some issues.
I don't take my car to the dealers much any longer. I have taken it upon myself to learn to do my own work. Tired of funding other folks retirement on my car. My car has left me stranded only 4 times in the 5 years I have owned it. Sure there are minor issues that come up, but I can live with a cup holder that doesn't hold a 20oz bottle of soda. And I'm not going to whine to GM about problems I am having with my 11 yr old car that is still running and looking pretty darn good in my opinion.
I have yet to own a car, see a car or know somebody with a car (pick a make or model) that doesn't have some issues.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
From: Richmond VA
Re: GM Rant Vent (MinnesotaWhite)
Yep...I guess this is going to be a tad of a flame...
You are comparing a performance car to a 4 banger (maybe 6) econo car and you want them to rank? Give your head a shake! This isn't apples and oranges...it's apples and potatoes.
What Honda/Toyota performance car do you have experience with that was built in 1990? If you did, then you have a comparison...comparing something that was built to go fast to something that was built to be reliable daily transport is so ridiculous I can't even begin...
Let's see...ever see a 80's Nissan 280ZX? Let me guess...no...probably because the are invisible due to the body falling off from all the rust (if they are still running). There are a few 300Z's still running around...but I don't know the repair records.
*edit* Here is JD Powers reliability records on the 1996 300Z
Midterm Reliability Ratings (1-3 years) definition
Mechanical Reliability 2 out of 5
Body & Interior Reliability 2 out of 5
Feature and Accessory Reliability 2 out of 5
Toyota...hmmm...the only thing that could "mildly" be referred to as a performance car is the Supra (and the TT was an impressive car)...the 80's ones are loooong gone (rusted or quit running)...and there were so few 90's sold we can't comment.
Honda...only car that could be called "performance" is the NSX...and why don't you call a few NSX owners and ask them how much they spend on keeping those cars running...I think you'll be shocked.
Run out and buy a Mitsosushi right now and let's see how many days it spends at the dealership...I'll put my 1996 Corvette up against a brand new ANY Mitsosushi for reliablility ANY day...
/flame off
You are comparing a performance car to a 4 banger (maybe 6) econo car and you want them to rank? Give your head a shake! This isn't apples and oranges...it's apples and potatoes.
What Honda/Toyota performance car do you have experience with that was built in 1990? If you did, then you have a comparison...comparing something that was built to go fast to something that was built to be reliable daily transport is so ridiculous I can't even begin...
Let's see...ever see a 80's Nissan 280ZX? Let me guess...no...probably because the are invisible due to the body falling off from all the rust (if they are still running). There are a few 300Z's still running around...but I don't know the repair records.
*edit* Here is JD Powers reliability records on the 1996 300Z
Midterm Reliability Ratings (1-3 years) definition
Mechanical Reliability 2 out of 5
Body & Interior Reliability 2 out of 5
Feature and Accessory Reliability 2 out of 5
Toyota...hmmm...the only thing that could "mildly" be referred to as a performance car is the Supra (and the TT was an impressive car)...the 80's ones are loooong gone (rusted or quit running)...and there were so few 90's sold we can't comment.
Honda...only car that could be called "performance" is the NSX...and why don't you call a few NSX owners and ask them how much they spend on keeping those cars running...I think you'll be shocked.
Run out and buy a Mitsosushi right now and let's see how many days it spends at the dealership...I'll put my 1996 Corvette up against a brand new ANY Mitsosushi for reliablility ANY day...
/flame off
My wife's 240 hp Accord is faster 0-60 and 1/4 than an '84 Vette and ties an '85 in the 1/4. It's build quality makes my Vette look like a riding lawn mower. We replaced an '87 Accord with 167K miles on it that only had the timing belt replaced, brakes, tune ups and oil changes. Not ONE SINGLE mechanical problem in 15 years. Show me one single GM product that can say that.
The Acura NSX is not even in the same league as the Corvette. It is a true exoticar. Hand built with aluminum and titanium components. It requires no more maintenance than an Acura CL or a legend. The build quality is unsurpassed by anything ever built in America. It is a true exoticar without the need for $900 oil changes and $10,000 brake jobs like it's Italian bretheren. I have a friend that traded his leaking, column locked 2002 C5 Vert for an NSX. I have seen the car...ridden in the car...it is obvious you have done neither.
I am on my 2nd Mitsusushi :rolleyes: Montero....my first I traded at 170K miles....it needed oil changes, brakes and a clutch in the 8 years I owned it. My present Montero has 125K on it and has never had anything done to it except brakes, tuneups, and oil changes. So yes I will put my Montero up against your Vette in quality and I will race you anytime (but I pick the spot.....Hatteras Island on the sand maybe :D )
The truth is GM needs to get their crap together. They have relied far too long on their accomplishments from the past and the brand loyalty of people. What is a more American car...a GM built in Mexico with every electronic part from Taiwan or a Honda built in Ohio by UAW workers?
edit: typos :banghead:
[Modified by Bodhi, 4:53 PM 10/24/2003]
Racer
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
From: Land Of Lincoln
Re: GM Rant Vent (lakerat)
I was around when cars did last 5 or 6 years and major problems did come up! And yes they really rusted especially here where I live from salt and we undercoated and rust proof the cars! I never saw a Asian car until around '73 when gas lines, mpg, insurance companies, and pollution control really got going! Well things had to change and the major 4 didn't until they were pushed. I was always a GM guy, until the '80s when their product gave me problems I couldn't stand anymore! I went over to Ford and found a great dealership that I have bought 6 cars from and that solved evrything for me. For my evreyday cars I drive Fords and it's most likely the dealership! I have always had some kind of pony or sports car, been really into Corvettes since '69 hence why I have one! It's not my everyday car so it doesn't get the workout that maybe a lot of you use yours with. The Ford dealership that I go to has been there with the same owners since the '50s and that's all they sell there. They have just bought a Chevy dealership close by and are working on turning that into the no 1 Corvette dealership in the area and they have a mechanic there I'm told (and was written on the forum about him) as just excellent! If they run that one like the one I go to then I've got something!
As far as the Asian cars I won't buy them and I agree with a lot of people that the jobs are leaving! 2.6 million manufacturing jobs since 2001! As far as them employing people that might be true but all that money goes back over there and is feeding our deficit! They are controling the consumer electronics market, and are putting a lot of people in California out of business. We once had 60 manufactures making TV's now zero! We once had many car companies now 2! And that is going on and on! I'm not just picking on the Pacific Rim Countries there is India, China and Russian with cheap labor and it's now affecting our service industry! The people over there can't afford their products they target the world's great economy us! The choice is ours! One question to ask yourself when there is a problem or an earthquake do they care about us do they send money or relief? :rant:
It's everyone's opinion and choice, but take a look at our job market! :flag
As far as the Asian cars I won't buy them and I agree with a lot of people that the jobs are leaving! 2.6 million manufacturing jobs since 2001! As far as them employing people that might be true but all that money goes back over there and is feeding our deficit! They are controling the consumer electronics market, and are putting a lot of people in California out of business. We once had 60 manufactures making TV's now zero! We once had many car companies now 2! And that is going on and on! I'm not just picking on the Pacific Rim Countries there is India, China and Russian with cheap labor and it's now affecting our service industry! The people over there can't afford their products they target the world's great economy us! The choice is ours! One question to ask yourself when there is a problem or an earthquake do they care about us do they send money or relief? :rant:
It's everyone's opinion and choice, but take a look at our job market! :flag
Racer
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
From: Columbia Maryland
Re: GM Rant Vent (Goody)
My car has left me stranded only 4 times in the 5 years I have owned it.
From redwing76:
The competiton from the imports has not improved the quailty of American cars.
The reason there are 20 year old C4s still on the road as daily drivers is because people take care of them and don't drive them everyday. The styling and performance make it worthwhile to restore them. You won't ever see a 20 year old Honda on the road because people drive them everyday, all year long, so they get used up in 10-12 years. When they hit 200k miles, they get rid of them. They are disposable transportation and serve a purpose. Comparing the two doesn't work because they are built for different reasons.
I do agree that I would like more quality out of a car that stickered for $40k in 1986. My vette has been in my family since new and the quality problems were there from the beginning. Will I buy another? Absolutely. Will I buy another Japanese car at some time? Sure.
:flag
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
From: AL
Re: GM Rant Vent (Charlutz)
I can sympathize... Last year, my headlight burned out on my '96. I called up the dealership, asked them if they had the light in stock, they said 'sure thing'. I get there, pay for it, go out the door. Open up the box and it's a glass headlight! I went back in, told them this was wrong. The light should be plastic. They looked at me like I was crazy. They told me I must be confused..this is the one showing on the computer. I told them they were wrong. Several of the guys talked this over, calling other coworkers, looking in books...still couldn't find what I was talking about. Finally, one guy said he remembered hearing about those plastic lights one time .. but they don't have anything like that! I was furious. I wasted my lunch hour to go down there .. then went back to work empty handed. I finally found one at NAPA. I fired off mail to the dealership and GM. I never did hear a word. They don't care. :cuss