Guys, I just had somebody sell me a set of roller rockers. He said that they were Non Self Aligning. But when I got them they have two tabs that stick down, one on either side of the roller tip. I'm guessing these are self aligning. Can I run these with my pushrod guideplates? Or am I going to run into some issues? Thanks for the help.

 

seems by your discription, thier are self aligning, the use of guide plates and self aligning R's were used in the stock set up..if you take a close look you will see that.. now the common thought is self aligining RR's do not need guides plates.. however if you check the tolerances guide to push rod and enough clearance .. you could leave them there...as the orginals guide plates were thought of as tool to make assembly easier..

i choose not to and took them out. however, on the 87 i left them in with no ill effects.

another issue is springs...if other then stock is used.. a change out is perferred.. depending on lift...stock spring are good for aboout .450..

adding a 1.6 R increases lift by about 6- 7%.. with that said, the stock spring will not last long. it is recommended to change to comps 981-16.installed hiehgt 1.700, lift max 4.80..which are the same as, but the 212-1178, installed hieght 1.700 lift max .510 seat pressure of 104- 112 psi clevits...or crane WG 2620 same spec half the price..i perferr the cranes becuz of price/lift ability...and no machining invovled.

note if replacing guides plates,, used harden washers as shim to get the proper vavle installed hieght!

or use the same guides plates and cut off the guides

hope this helps

 

I also bought a set of these and found out after the fact. The advice from Forum matched what Comp Cams and LPE both told me. Either buy a new set of non-aligning roller rockers....or.... eliminate the pushrod plates. You can not have both. The pushrods will get damaged (bent) and then you will break a valve or piston. So I was advised to unbolt the rocker studs. Remove the plates (even though I paid to have hardened COMP CAMS ones installed by LPE), and replace them with same thickness flat washers (I chose stainless steel ones). Then torque studs back down. (HINT: It took two washers per stud for me to equal the same thickness).

 

the above is true, but i would suggest to replace the washer with harden washer..reason...stainless steel or any material other than harden is going to leave you with more problems..premature wear leading to loose or broken stud/rocker and or spring.. do not play with this..it not ment to be..

 

I'm confused, Why would you need to add washers to the bottom of the rocker studs?? Don't you set the height of the rocker when you set it to zero lash. the height of the stud shouldn't have anything to do with it. Please explain.

 

First, these are self aligning rocker arms. Many (all?) engines that came with self aligning rockers have a guide plate looking device which was used as an assembly line aid. Although best removed, it's OK to retain them. If your engine came without self aligning rockers, then your guide plates are the real deal, and MUST be removed if you want to use self aligning rockers. Chevy has used 3 methods of keeping the rocker aligned with the valve stem (2 with aluminum heads). No two, or more can be used in a single engine, due to the possibility of one interfering with the other.

RACE ON!!!

 

when guides plates are removed (.125 thick).. the installed height of spring 1.700 this then is compromised...by that amount.. so replace WITH HARDEN WASHER or CUT to upper guides off and reuse the plates only..this then puts the spring at the right hieght..VERY important!

zero lash has nothing to do spring hieght.. in fact that will be your next question...adjust rocker according to tables found on this forum. or do them wet..adjusting to only rid clicking and lock down!
(that being zero valve lash)

 

hi ,CFI-EFI thats it...

 

The guide plate fits underneath the hex portion of the stud. The stud will be lowered by the thickness of the guide plate, removed. At the least, the proper position of the rocker arm will be closer to the end of the stud, putting extra strain on it. With poly locks you may not get sufficient thread engagement to prevent the valve train forces from striping the threads of the poly lock or the stud. And the stud may bottom in the hole before the hex is tight against the head. Additionally, there is the possibility that the fillet between the hex and the lower threaded portion of the stud may not be compatible with the threaded hole in the head.

RACE ON!!!

 

Again I'm missing the point. Give me some geometric details here please. The way I see it is that when I install the rocker arm it sits on the valve spring and pushrod with the stud going through the middle. Then I tighten the nut down to make the correct height of the rocker. If the rocker stud is lowered I would assume all would be the same except that I would not tighten the nut down as much.

By the way this is on an LT1 engine. No guide plates from the factory. They are aftermarket from the frist time I upgraded the valve train.

 

The guide plates have NOTHING to do with the spring installed height. That relationship is between the spring seat in the head and the valve spring retainer. There are many ways to alter the spring installed height, but that process is long over when the studs or rocker arms are installed.

RACE ON!!!

 

you failed to mention LT1 .. but there is a shim, spring, retainer and locks..all this must be installed to the correct installed spring Hieght..for that application.. Then you adjust the rocker for zero valve lash..

i think Cfi-Efi explained it well.

 

Raising the rocker location on the stud (by lowering the stud) will increase the leverage that tends to deflect the stud during normal operation. Any delflection of the stud reduces valve opening, which is why some of us upgrade the the thicker 7/16" stud.

 

yes sir...

BTW: 65Z01 valve spring problem solved, thaks

 

I am not that familiar with the LT engines, but if it CAME without guide plates, then it HAD self aligning rockers. Why did you add guide plates? If you are replacing self aligning, with self aligning... What's all the fuss???

RACE ON!!!

 

korvette4u, glad to hear that they worked for you.

CFI-EFI, I don't know about the LTx engines, but the late L98s came with stamped steel self alinging rockers and the assembly line guide plates. Perhaps that is his setup too.

 

That is basically what I was referring to all along, but then he announced:NOW I wonder if the self aligner's were eliminated??? Why guide plates, now??? With guide plates, now...what studs are in there??? In addressing the original question, the point remains...Never more that one alignment device per engine.

RACE ON!!!

 

Sorry I missed your post CFI, That makes alot of sense. It must have been posted as I was writing my reply.

I called thunder racing and they told me everything that I needed. They switched me over to guide plates, 7/16" studs, comp cams pro magnum roller rockers, and hardened pushrods.

So that's my current setup. I've got a split set of 1.6/1.52 rockers and I'm trying to get a full set of 1.6's so I bought some off a guy and they turned out to be 15(1 has a bad roller) self aligning 1.6's Would it hurt to run half the engine on self aligning and half non-self aligning?

If I've gotta pull the guide plates I'll probably just cut the top have off with my chop saw and put them back on to keep every thing consistant.

 

if the set up was self aligning it could have been kept that way...sometimes these suppliers just sell anything to make thier money..
use what you have .. if self aligning 15 good one bad , buy one good the complete the set...use either self or non , but not both!

for self modify the plates use them. if you want, or buy just the Harden spacers...

Dont forget about those spring! depending on lift/rpm..you may have to change them as well..

 

It doesn't matter if you run some self aligning and some not, so long as there in only one method of alignment used per rocker arm.

Since you are running 7/16" studs, check to be sure that the self aligning ProMagnums will fit those studs. When I bought my ProMagnums a few years ago Comp Cams didn't offer a them in self aligning configuration for 7/16" studs.