I was anxious to find out what the SR would flow with some decent porting after welding up the base for a 1206 Felpro.

The problem is that I did not have this done with my AFR-210 heads bolted to to the intake so I dont know how much value this really is. I did not want to unbolt my 210's just for this test, sorry.

With the intake runner bolted to the base, it flowed 370 CFM at 28"/water.

Now can some of the wiser individuals tell me how this # compares to other flow numbers with NO heads attached or how it relates to the head flow?

The work was done a www.cfmperformance.com and I must say the port work is beautiful,,,,

 

You should check with TJ Wong if he does not chime in. He has loads of experience with the SR and various engine/head configurations.

 

Yeah, he is one of the few that know the characteristics of the SR intake well, Jeb and Ralph and Cork are others of the top of my noggin

I am sure that when the 58 MM Throttle body is attatched then the heads, there will be a different overal number. But I imagine that it is better to flow the SR by itself, cause each head flows a different cfm.

What I know is that the SR wont be restricting the heads now and I still have a 12" long runner.

 

Pretty nice. Those bases are a pain to get deep in there and make it nice

 

Thanks, they did a great job, the port passages are all really pretty symmetrical.

The base inlet hole ID's are 1.750-1.780 ID, and they ported bascailly, all the way throught the intake runner, instead of just going into the runner openings and inch or so.

The main focus was to "straight line" the air flow, i.e. reduce any obstructions and corners that prevented the air charge from going straight and achiveing velocity.

My main question I guess is what does a normal Superram flow with only a runner and intake base attached? I wish they would have tested the intake and runner before they started porting.

I've seen info & forum on the web saying the SR flows 245 CFM out of the box, but I wonder if that is with a set of heads attached. I know that Caboboy had a flow of @ 280CFM with his AFR-195's attached.

I am assuming that since my heads flow 280-ish CFM at .550 lift, that my heads will dictate my flow and not the intake, but yet, I will still have the longer runner which the Superram provides.

 

[QUOTE=LD85]

With the intake runner bolted to the base, it flowed 370 CFM at 28"/water.

I find it extremely hard to believe that those flow numbers! The super ram can just about make 305 cfm with 1206 and a very good porting.


I've seen info & forum on the web saying the SR flows 245 CFM out of the box, but I wonder if that is with a set of heads attached. I know that Caboboy had a flow of @ 280CFM with his AFR-195's attached.
I am assuming that since my heads flow 280-ish CFM at .550 lift, that my heads will dictate my flow and not the intake, but yet, I will still have the longer runner which the Superram provides.

The Intake manifold dictates how well the heads flow because the intake feed the air to the heads. The intake can offer restriction to the incoming air.

yedi

 

[QUOTE=yedister]No offense, but I knew there would be a least one of these posts, the SR flow was tested with no head attached, only the base and runner, it is not too had to believe a hole that is @ 1.750 diamater, ported to a larger felpro 1260, can flow 370cfm, right?

I will call TEA on Monday and ask them about the baseline flow and see what they say.

 

The SR is used as a whole not just the base and runners. If the whole assembly flowed that much air then, several other forum member that switched from SR to a converted single plane intake would not have done so. Check with the member who has a 427/434, I believe that all of them switch from the SR because it can not support the airflow required for the different heads, and their heads are not flowing 370 CFM.

yedi

 

Also it depends on how the porter performed the test on his flow bench. Most cylinder head builders uses pipes attached to their heads to simulate exhaust headers and intake runners for a more realistic test. Just blowing air though an orfice is not going to give a very accurate flow number. I would think to give an accurate number the runners would have to be attached on a SR it comes to thought that high 200's are the numbers that were seen. The other issue is what test standard the flow bench operator is using. Test standards have standardized correction factors, use a different method and the number changes making the other results useless.

TEA has done a few of these that I know of. Corvette0096 recently had his intake ported by TEA and I beleive he has flow numbers. And they were in the high 200's from what I recall. I have seen these manifolds used on engines from 350 on up to 440 inch street engines. And in all of these applications that I have been personally involved with in tuning issues. I have seen that the SR is a very versatile manifold offering very good performance in these instances. The 440 inch engine I am refering to was in a 57 Belair. It had AFR 210 heads, a fairly large cam bolted to a 700R4 tranny with full IRS rear axle stuffed with 390 gears. For a rolling shoe box that probably weighed over 4500lbs it got up and moved. I was surprised as to how quick it went from 65 mph to over 110 mph

One thing that did concern me when I check out CFM Peformances website. Was that they mentioned that they use their "custom built flow bench".... most professional engine shops uses the industry standard Super Flow benches. I am totally not against a custom bench provided that they are properly built and calibrated. After all the famous Smokey Yunick built his own flow bench. But he used a Meriam linear flow element as a measurement device. Which is very accurate and very expensive for its time. Even using that element there had to be temperature and humidity correction factors to be used in the equation for corrected flow.

Being a controls system engineer I deal with instrumention in pulp and paper mills. Typically a flow bench uses properly sized orfices where pressure differential is measured to determine flow. Also the measurement sensor is calibrated to these orfices. For example a sensor calibrated for 0 to 100 in/h20 would equal 0 to 600 CFM air flow. If the device isn't calibrated to the orfices then the measurement is not going to be correct. Seeing how you are in Indianpolis, I am sure that there are other engine builders there that can flow your intake on a Super flow bench. Todays modern flow benches uses a PC and software for ambient correction factors for a more accurate flow test.

 

Thanks yedster and TJ!

I in absolutely no way believe that their porting is giving my 370CFM, I hope everyone understands that first and foremost.

But since they did not put any type of pipe on the intake tha tyou made mention of, I guess I have no way of knowing what it truly does flow.

I may run it down to www.indyheads.com and have them flow it for me. I am not going to pull my heads for the test but truly do want some concrete understanding of what the CNC guys accomplished, and how well it truely does flow.

 

In the Dec. 1998 issue of Hot Rod magazine there is an article "The 10 Deadly EFI Sins" that lists flow data for various intakes.

For the Accel base and SR they list flow at 240.24 cfm @28" of H2O.

 

I will take it to Indy Heads in the morning,

and Ol'RJ has a set of AFR 210 Comp ported heads laying around that he is not using,,, so if INDY wants to put a head on it, RJ is cool enough to let me borrow his for the test ( and maybe I can swap my Race Readys out with his and he will ever know, sshhhhh!)

ohhh to be single again!

 

I'll know.
besides you only need one head to test with.........

 

OK, taking the AFR 210 head and the ported SR to the guys below today, should know something in a couple of days!

They will test a port with the intake and no head,
then with the head att .200,.300,.400,.500,.600 lift.
And they will replicate the 4.155 bore dimension.

Oh yeah, here is a cool pic on the port match looking into the Superram at the AFR 210/1206 opening.

 

370 is way higher than anything i've ever seen. Like TW said, high 200s is more normal. In any event, a ported SR should be able to supply most reasonably sized heads. My combo was quicker aqnd faster with the SR than the SP.....but the SR just made too much low end torque for bracket racing and D44s.

 

OK, using an AFR 210-100% CNC head, dirty valves. 28-H2o, going into a 4.155 cylinder, bell mouth on the runner SF-1020 tester

I learned a few things, one is that flowing the intake with no head is virtually meaningless as the head and intake act as one, two is that you need to have the proper size bore on the bottom of the head to replicate the bore on your engine, three is that the clay bell mouth is OK but a plexiglass bellmouth shaped properly added 3 cfm, and laslyt that the CFM drop fpercentage from the head flow to the inatke/head flow combo iswhat the flow guys tend to rely on to detemine how restrictive a package is, so the less percetnage of drop the better.


.100 75.4 76.3 NA drop
.200 137.5 137.7
.300 192.5 188.7
.400 234.8 224.6
.500 263.8 247.3
.600 281.6 261.2

 

OK, using an AFR 210-100% CNC head, dirty valves. 28-H2o, going into a 4.155 cylinder, bell mouth on the runner SF-1020 tester

I learned a few things, one is that flowing the intake with no head is virtually meaningless as the head and intake act as one, two is that you need to have the proper size bore on the bottom of the head to replicate the bore on your engine, three is that the clay bell mouth is OK but a plexiglass bellmouth shaped properly added 3 cfm, and lastly that the CFM drop percentage from the head flow to the intake/head flow combo iswhat the flow guys tend to rely on to detemine how restrictive a package is, so the less percentage of drop the better.

Lift Head Intake & Head

.100 75.4 76.3
.200 137.5 137.7
.300 192.5 188.7
.400 234.8 224.6
.500 263.8 247.3
.600 281.6 261.2

 

That is why a lot of guys that flow heads and other parts always uses a pipe or other devices to simulate the actual path of flow. Even at that it is not always perfect. With using your actual head you will have the most realistic flow through your intake.

 

Thanks TJ, another thing is that the guy said that the chances were slim that you would get the same flows from the same model of Flow Bench done by 2, 3 different testers.

His general impression was that the drop from lift to lift was only @ 5-7% and that was good even if the flow numbers were not as high as I had hoped for.

Oh yeah, I talked with Brent at TEA, he says that they really dont flow the Superrams when they port them, he said they might have flowed the frist one they did, but pointed out that when a car is running down the road that the car is pulling like 100"/H20 and that the flow numebrs are really better than 28" H20 shows, I thought that was interesting.