L98 cooling problem..Could it be pump????
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: CALGARY ab
L98 cooling problem..Could it be pump????
urgent ....replaced old with new federal mogul (carter) Part# FP 1611,,could this pump be the wrong one?
the temperate of upper rad hose is 100*F the lower is 134*F.. would indicate a reverse flow pump?
so far this is what i have done;
engine totallay rebuilt using felpro 1010 head gaskets, FPP-1204 intakes with rear full flow.
new temp 160*F stat, new water, new coolant with distilled water?removed&cleaned rad inside and out , as well as the area...no leaks anywhere.
this is what happens, after burping the system severals times, the temperaure remain constant at about 180*f after 30 miles or so , low coolant lite comes on...the over fill resoir is full. it seems that the rad cap is allowing fliud to escape.I replace it with A 16 cap, but does same thing. there IS no COOLANT IN OIL NONE! i have test leak down on coolant system 10lbs constant over nite..the result are good.
the engine has not been over heated,,,the temp varies from 180- 212*F..have manual fan switches. temp does come down immediately they are switched on..
any help would be great..
the temperate of upper rad hose is 100*F the lower is 134*F.. would indicate a reverse flow pump?
so far this is what i have done;
engine totallay rebuilt using felpro 1010 head gaskets, FPP-1204 intakes with rear full flow.
new temp 160*F stat, new water, new coolant with distilled water?removed&cleaned rad inside and out , as well as the area...no leaks anywhere.
this is what happens, after burping the system severals times, the temperaure remain constant at about 180*f after 30 miles or so , low coolant lite comes on...the over fill resoir is full. it seems that the rad cap is allowing fliud to escape.I replace it with A 16 cap, but does same thing. there IS no COOLANT IN OIL NONE! i have test leak down on coolant system 10lbs constant over nite..the result are good.
the engine has not been over heated,,,the temp varies from 180- 212*F..have manual fan switches. temp does come down immediately they are switched on..
any help would be great..
Last edited by korvette4u; Apr 4, 2005 at 05:44 PM.
Le Mans Master
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From: High Plains Drifter Fayetteville, AR
ONLY use distilled water. The salts in normal water will promote eletrolisys between dissimilar metals.
I looked for info on the part# you posted, but couldn't find anything. For an L98 you need a short nose, reverse rotation pump for the serpentine belt setup.
I looked for info on the part# you posted, but couldn't find anything. For an L98 you need a short nose, reverse rotation pump for the serpentine belt setup.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: CALGARY ab
thats what I thought distilled water..did that
i checked the rad cap again althought it new it did not fit tight, hopefully that might fix it..i'll test drive again..
the system does have pressure in it now, about hour after shutdown.. it should gradually decrease from then on...may be a good sign?
ps : rule out t- stat i took it out for testing...
i checked the rad cap again althought it new it did not fit tight, hopefully that might fix it..i'll test drive again..
the system does have pressure in it now, about hour after shutdown.. it should gradually decrease from then on...may be a good sign?
ps : rule out t- stat i took it out for testing...
Originally Posted by JCAIRE2
ONLY use distilled water. The salts in normal water will promote eletrolisys between dissimilar metals.
I looked for info on the part# you posted, but couldn't find anything. For an L98 you need a short nose, reverse rotation pump for the serpentine belt setup.
I looked for info on the part# you posted, but couldn't find anything. For an L98 you need a short nose, reverse rotation pump for the serpentine belt setup.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: CALGARY ab
Originally Posted by JAKE
What is it you're concerned about, the 180-212 temps?
Jake
Jake
jake, are the felpro gaskets rite ones? also replaced low coolant sensor
Pro
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Centerville OH
You still have air in the cooling system. I have had exactly the same problem in the past. This used to drive me nuts until I came across a solution in the TPIS Insider Hints book. Here's how they recommend you burp the C4 cooling system:
1) Turn heater on and set to max. temp
2) Start the car and top off radiator until it's full
3) Wedge a screwdriver between the the throttle lever and stop to obtain approximately 2000 rpm engine speed
4) Top off radiator (typically requires a quart or more)
5) Install radiator cap with engine still at 2000 rpm
6) Return engine to idle
You'll be amazed at the amount of air that gets blown into the puke bottle when you do this. This is the only method I've found that can reliably get all the air out of an 84-89 C4 cooling system.
1) Turn heater on and set to max. temp
2) Start the car and top off radiator until it's full
3) Wedge a screwdriver between the the throttle lever and stop to obtain approximately 2000 rpm engine speed
4) Top off radiator (typically requires a quart or more)
5) Install radiator cap with engine still at 2000 rpm
6) Return engine to idle
You'll be amazed at the amount of air that gets blown into the puke bottle when you do this. This is the only method I've found that can reliably get all the air out of an 84-89 C4 cooling system.
Last edited by Z51L9889; Apr 4, 2005 at 11:10 PM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,594
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From: CALGARY ab
Originally Posted by Z51L9889
You still have air in the cooling system. I have had exactly the same problem in the past. This used to drive me nuts until I came across a solution in the TPIS Insider Hints book. Here's how they recommend you burp the C4 cooling system:
1) Turn heater on and set to max. temp
2) Start the car and top off radiator until it's full
3) Wedge a screwdriver between the the throttle lever and stop to obtain approximately 2000 rpm engine speed
4) Top off radiator (typically requires a quart or more)
5) Install radiator cap with engine still at 2000 rpm
6) Return engine to idle
You'll be amazed at the amount of air that gets blown into the puke bottle when you do this. This is the only method I've found that can reliably get all the air out of an 84-89 C4 cooling system.
1) Turn heater on and set to max. temp
2) Start the car and top off radiator until it's full
3) Wedge a screwdriver between the the throttle lever and stop to obtain approximately 2000 rpm engine speed
4) Top off radiator (typically requires a quart or more)
5) Install radiator cap with engine still at 2000 rpm
6) Return engine to idle
You'll be amazed at the amount of air that gets blown into the puke bottle when you do this. This is the only method I've found that can reliably get all the air out of an 84-89 C4 cooling system.
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Drifting
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,347
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From: Slidell La
Pump?
If you cooling system is full,, you have no oil or exhaust gasses in the water,, and you are blowing water out of the cap,, you could have too much pressure generated by the pump. After you blow the water out due to pump pressure low coolant will cause a heat problem. The temps you run 180 to 210 are really ok, and the computer turns the fans on. If you have a 160 thermostat and want the fans to keep it at 160 you will have to reprogram your computer to turn on the fans on early or wire them to run full time.
Good luck,, and keep your cool..
Good luck,, and keep your cool..
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
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From: The Top of Utah
Originally Posted by jimcork1
you could have too much pressure generated by the pump. After you blow the water out due to pump pressure low coolant will cause a heat problem.
Originally Posted by jimcork1
If you have a 160 thermostat and want the fans to keep it at 160 you will have to reprogram your computer to turn on the fans on early or wire them to run full time.
I like to perform Z51L9889's filling procedure with the front wheels on ramps. A lot of the problem is due to the fact that the fill point isn't the highest point in the cooling system. The ramps minimize that. Also, before you start it, cold next time, remove the cap and top it off.
RACE ON!!!
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: CALGARY ab
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
Horse feathers!Bad idea.
I like to perform Z51L9889's filling procedure with the front wheels on ramps. A lot of the problem is due to the fact that the fill point isn't the highest point in the cooling system. The ramps minimize that. Also, before you start it, cold next time, remove the cap and top it off.
RACE ON!!!
I like to perform Z51L9889's filling procedure with the front wheels on ramps. A lot of the problem is due to the fact that the fill point isn't the highest point in the cooling system. The ramps minimize that. Also, before you start it, cold next time, remove the cap and top it off.
RACE ON!!!
i did check with auto service buddy, he suggested that the use of DISTILLED WATER is not a good idea. It being pure reacts with coolant causing foaming, thereby causing elevated pressure, coolant then escapes through cap into over flow. is there any truth to this?
agin the car does not over heat, it pkes coolant into over flow before it reaches op temp, pressure cap is 16lbs..
what da ya think CFI-EFI?
Race Director
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From: The Top of Utah
Have you pressure tested it? The lip the cap seals against could be deformed. Or there could be air leaking in from somewhere else.
RACE ON!!!
PS. Distilled or deionized water is not the cause of these problems. I read a very good article a while back on that issue. It was somewhat (to me) eye opening. If I find it or recall the details, I'll post them.
RACE ON!!!
PS. Distilled or deionized water is not the cause of these problems. I read a very good article a while back on that issue. It was somewhat (to me) eye opening. If I find it or recall the details, I'll post them.
Last edited by CFI-EFI; Apr 5, 2005 at 02:56 PM. Reason: PS.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: CALGARY ab
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
Have you pressure tested it? The lip the cap seals against could be deformed. Or there could be air leaking in from somewhere else.
RACE ON!!!
PS. Distilled or deionized water is not the cause of these problems. I read a very good article a while back on that issue. It was somewhat (to me) eye opening. If I find it or recall the details, I'll post them.
RACE ON!!!
PS. Distilled or deionized water is not the cause of these problems. I read a very good article a while back on that issue. It was somewhat (to me) eye opening. If I find it or recall the details, I'll post them.
will get back with results
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
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From: San Pedro CA
Originally Posted by korvette4u
i did check with auto service buddy, he suggested that the use of DISTILLED WATER is not a good idea. It being pure reacts with coolant causing foaming, thereby causing elevated pressure, coolant then escapes through cap into over flow. is there any truth to this?
I am thinking your use of the open rear gaskets has distrupted the natural flow of the coolant. There is a reason those are only pin holes.
Check your auxillary hoses, too. Make sure you don't have any leaks on the heater lines and what not.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: CALGARY ab
Originally Posted by bogus
He is so full of ****, it ain't even funny. Distilled water reacting? Laughable.
I am thinking your use of the open rear gaskets has distrupted the natural flow of the coolant. There is a reason those are only pin holes.
Check your auxillary hoses, too. Make sure you don't have any leaks on the heater lines and what not.
I am thinking your use of the open rear gaskets has distrupted the natural flow of the coolant. There is a reason those are only pin holes.
Check your auxillary hoses, too. Make sure you don't have any leaks on the heater lines and what not.
tap water does boil @ 212* F, distilled water boils @ 235*F , both at sea level. try this test, take tap H20 to boil measure temp.add coolant. no explosion?. now use distilled H20 heat to 212* add coolant. does it blow up?
Any way the COOLANT pressure tester has been holding steady @ 16lbs for the last hour.
...that becuz the coolant is GARAGE temp... 
.. , but to make sure i will leave on over nite..i would think there is no leak...Am i Right?oh yeh.. tested cap, releases @ 16lbs...
....oh and ya know what, the new low coolant sensor is defective. opened rad, is full to top, started car, let it circulate, fluid still full, yet the F$%$^^&in low coolant light come on.. replacement on its way...
as for gaskets, the intake gasket 1204 has full opening at rear where as the orginal has small weep holes. the racing community use the open method (1204), this then allows more even flow through the engine. so i told.
checking part number on pump federal mogul # FP 1611, to ASC-WP595, both new, but do not cross reference for same application...????
Last edited by korvette4u; Apr 5, 2005 at 07:12 PM.
Race Director
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From: The Top of Utah
Originally Posted by korvette4u
tap water does boil @ 212* F, distilled water boils @ 235*F , both at sea level. try this test, take tap H20 to boil measure temp.add coolant. no explosion?. now use distilled H20 heat to 212* add coolant. does it blow up?
Originally Posted by korvette4u
Any way the COOLANT pressure tester has been holding steady @ 16lbs for the last hour. ...that becuz the coolant is GARAGE temp... .. , but to make sure i will leave on over nite..i would think there is no leak...Am i Right?
...that becuz the coolant is GARAGE temp... .. , but to make sure i will leave on over nite..i would think there is no leak...Am i Right?
Originally Posted by korvette4u
checking part number on pump federal mogul # FP 1611, to ASC-WP595, both new, but do not cross reference for same application...????
RACE ON!!!
Thread Starter
Drifting
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From: CALGARY ab
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
I don't understand what you are saying or getting at, here.
Over night may be overkill. I think an hour is more than sufficient. Whether at 60* or at 240*, 16 pounds of pressure is 16 pounds of pressure.
I should have posted yesterday when I looked. I confirmed your FP1611 part number on the Checker Auto Parts (CSK) site. The think it is PartsAmerica.
RACE ON!!!
Over night may be overkill. I think an hour is more than sufficient. Whether at 60* or at 240*, 16 pounds of pressure is 16 pounds of pressure.
I should have posted yesterday when I looked. I confirmed your FP1611 part number on the Checker Auto Parts (CSK) site. The think it is PartsAmerica.
RACE ON!!!
also pressure cap needs to be 17lbs stock, not 16lbs as the smirf sold me!
pressure is temperature sensitive. @ 105*F pressure @ 16lbs, as temperature falls the liquid shinks, therfore a larger void to fill, hense air pressure drops..so if i taking a reading @ room temp and the pressure is 16 lbs, for one hour with no decrease in either..its good
the Trivia...heat each liquid tap & distilled in micro till it boils. the tap H20 boils @ 212*F , say it boils in 3 minutes. remove, add sugar, the liquid does not react, both sugar and tap water mix without episode.
now take distilled H20, heat till it boils @ 235*F ( remember no contaminates in it), the boiling takes longer , say 3 minutes 30 seconds, remove and add sugar.. there is explosive reaction. WHY?
it takes longer to cool down as it did to heat up. the liquid is still above 212*F so by adding sugar a cooling effect is introduced, and it begins to boils for a few seconds..
Race Director
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From: The Top of Utah
Originally Posted by korvette4u
part numbers are ok .. you said.. thanks, i will check it out
Originally Posted by korvette4u
the Trivia...heat each liquid tap & distilled in micro till it boils. the tap H20 boils @ 212*F , say it boils in 3 minutes. remove, add sugar, the liquid does not react, both sugar and tap water mix without episode.
now take distilled H20, heat till it boils @ 235*F ( remember no contaminates in it), the boiling takes longer , say 3 minutes 30 seconds, remove and add sugar.. there is explosive reaction. WHY?
it takes longer to cool down as it did to heat up. the liquid is still above 212*F so by adding sugar a cooling effect is introduced, and it begins to boils for a few seconds..
now take distilled H20, heat till it boils @ 235*F ( remember no contaminates in it), the boiling takes longer , say 3 minutes 30 seconds, remove and add sugar.. there is explosive reaction. WHY?
it takes longer to cool down as it did to heat up. the liquid is still above 212*F so by adding sugar a cooling effect is introduced, and it begins to boils for a few seconds..
RACE ON!!!
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: CALGARY ab
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
I checked out the part number you're using. It is correct.
I still don't get the point of all that. What are you saying? I HOPE you aren't saying that distilled water boils at 235* F at sea level. It won't get over ~212* F unless it's pressurized.
RACE ON!!!
I still don't get the point of all that. What are you saying? I HOPE you aren't saying that distilled water boils at 235* F at sea level. It won't get over ~212* F unless it's pressurized.
RACE ON!!!
according to the mythbusters, discovery channel, They demonstrated the forgoing. Actually the distilled water did boil @ a higher temperature. the reason behind it was, no minerals are contained in it causing less molecular fiction. whether or not, it was on TV.....
that may having nothing to do with our cooling sytem, but it does leave a question.
Btw: thanks for the help, with this cooling problem just about solved i can move on to the rear wheel bearings, Can these be rebuilt? heard tell that it is possible.
Le Mans Master
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From: High Plains Drifter Fayetteville, AR
Actually, adding any solute to water will RAISE the BP of water. Pure water boils at 212*F, if the water has anything dissolved or mixed with it, it will raise the BP.
The reason the water on the mythbuster episode exploded with the addition of the sugar was due to the container they heated the water in. It was very smooth and clean, this didn't give any surfaces for bubles to form. When they poured in the sugar, it gave the gas bubbles a surface to form on. That is why in the lab, whenever you boil any liquid, you use either a magnetic stirrer or boiling chips. Otherwise, anytime you added something to the beaker you'd get a violent reaction.
Back to your questions.
You cannot rebuild any of the wheel bearings on a c4 they are sealed one-piece units.
The reason the water on the mythbuster episode exploded with the addition of the sugar was due to the container they heated the water in. It was very smooth and clean, this didn't give any surfaces for bubles to form. When they poured in the sugar, it gave the gas bubbles a surface to form on. That is why in the lab, whenever you boil any liquid, you use either a magnetic stirrer or boiling chips. Otherwise, anytime you added something to the beaker you'd get a violent reaction.
Back to your questions.
You cannot rebuild any of the wheel bearings on a c4 they are sealed one-piece units.