How difficult is it to replace the front main seal?? Has anyone out there done this job before and can give me a run down of how difficult it may be?? Thanks JZ

P.S. no one has responded on how to replace a water pump, I know it's alot easier then the seal, but can i get some feedback??? Thanks

 

Once you get the water pump off, your better than half way home. You will need a puller to take the damper off and then there are a bunch of 7/16th" headed bolts holding the timing cover on. The seal removes and installs from the rear of the cover. Check the seal surface of the damper. If it is grooved from the seal, you will need either a repair sleeve or a new damper. Then you will need a damper installation tool for reassembly.

RACE ON!!!

 

First, we need to know exactly what you're referring to.

Are you talking about the seal in the timing chain cover or the front oil pan to timing chain cover gasket?

As far as changing the water pump, is fairly easy to do. There are just a lot of bolts and nuts that have to be removed and coolant hoses that can be a bear to get off. I'm going from memory on this but:

You should first disconnect the battery and drain the radiator. Try to catch as much coolant as you can. Makes less mess and, if your coolant is in good shape, it can be reused. I just remove the radiator hose at the water pump; GUSH!!!!!!!!!

Then remove the MAF and duct. Stick some balled up paper towels in the throttle body openings to prevent dirt, etc., from entering the TB.

If you are still running all the EGR and AIR solenoids and hoses, you'll need to disconnect them and get them out of the way. Be sure to label them so you can reconnect them when the time comes.

You'll then need to remove all the bolts, the four that mount the water pump to the block, but that also mount some of the accessories, like the A/C compressor and power steering pump. Make note of which bolt was removed from which hole; they need to go back in the same place.

The A/C compressor has a "hidden" bolt directly in the underside center of the compressor; takes a torx head bit (I want to say M10 but I'm not sure on that one) and the notch on the pulley has to be aligned with that bolt.

I believe the AIR pump is in the way too, but you may be able to work around the AIR; I have in the past on my 86.

Try loosening the water pump pulley bolts before removing the serpentine belt. The belt tension can help with that. When time comes to remove the belt, a 1/2" ratchet or 1/2" breaker-bar will allow you to loosen the tension on the belt. You'll see a square hold in the belt tension/idler pulley.

The idler puller should be removed too. I believe it takes a 15 mm socket to remove the single bolt.

There a two 10 mm bolts that hold the A/C canister to the front rail unbolting and moving it frees up some room. I get to those by standing on the driver's side and reaching over. A 1/4" drive works best due to the tightness of the area to work in.

Also, there's a coolant hose on a nipple on the passenger side of the water pump that has to be removed. It's a little difficult to get to the clamp, but it can be done. That hose will probably be hard to remove from the nipple too. If you have enough play in the hose, you can slice it with a razor blade right length-wise ONLY as far as the hose extends onto the nipple. Then cut the "sliced" part off to give you a fresh hose end. You may only loose 1-1/2" or so, but make sure you will still have enough hose left to reconnect it or you'll have to buy a new length of heater hose.

You don't have to pull the radiator or disconnect the A/C lines.

The water pump may be stuck pretty tightly to the block, but some light taps with a rubber mallet will free it. A thin layer of Sensor-Safe silicone sealant on both sides of the new water pump gaskets will prevent any leak.

There are some other little miscellaneous stuff, but I believe that about covers the main things that need to be done.

Jake

 

Jake,
Thanks for all the info on the water pump. I think the front main bearing seal is leaking. JZ

 

CFI-EFI,
Can I remove the damper while the car is on the ground or do I need to put it on a lift??? Is there enough room to get the damper off?? JZ

 

So you're leaking oil not water, right?

Yes, you can remove the damper with the car on the ground. You may have to wedge a screw driver into the flexplate, though, to keep the engine from turing over as you try to break the damper bolt torque. Sometimes I hit the breaker bar/ratchet handle with a hammer - a sharp blow, that'll break loose the torque. Other times, I've had to wedge the flexplate with a long screw driver to keep the engine from turing as I tried to loosen the bolt.

You'll have to unscrew the power steering line on the rack that's directly in front of the damper. That'll give you enough room for the damper puller to fit. AutoZone will loan you the puller if you don't have one.

Jake

 

Jake,
I have a small front bearing leak (about a quarter size on the pavement) The car has over 100K on it. Should I be worried about such a small leak??? Yes, I'm also leaking alittle coolant. The car sits all winter and when I first started it alittle coolant (about an 8 inch circle at the right front) I washed down the area it was leaking from and moved the car. Then I ran the car for about a 1/2 hour and no leaks, I'm not sure if the heat resealed the leaking area of what. I did a pressure test, no leaks, but I did find some residue under the water pump. I'm going to do another pressure test and see what happens. If it doesn't leak should or shouldn't I still replace the water pump??? JZ

 

The mechanics of the job have pretty much been covered.
My tip to you is if you have a digital camera, take lots of pictures. If not, develop a labeling system and tag/ID everything you take off.
Don't trust your memory on this.

 

You can also try replacing the front main seal without removing the timing cover if that's the only oil leak. (Assuming the '86 and '89 have the same timing covers). Haynes says to remove the cover first; Helms has instructions for seal replacement with and without timing cover removal. It'll be tight with the steering rack there but you should be able to get at it. After prying with a screwdriver (carefully as not to distort the cover), there's a special GM tool referenced for in-car installation but you might be able to rig a press using PVC/ABS plumbing fittings (or a BIG socket) and a harmonic balancer installer from AutoZone. This would save you from also having to disturb the oil pan. I just replaced my front seal (with cover off) during timing chain replacement -- with 130K it had quite a bit of slop with the original nylon sprocket...

 

Well, actually it's a toss up. Depends on how particular you are about leaks. Some can't stand even a speck on their Vette, while others, like me, couldn't care less. There's a saying among us old-timers that Chevys don't run unless they're leaking somewhere. LOL

It's pretty much your call, but all I can advise is this:

I wouldn't replace the water pump unless I KNEW that it needed replacing. What I mean is, the pump itself could be fine, but the pump to block gasket or thermostat housing gasket is what's leaking.

If it were me, I'd do as you plan and install the pressure tester and leave it attached for a hours, just to see if the leak is still there or not. I wouldn't pressurize the system higher than 20 psi though. Also, I'd first clean off any of the residue you mentioned so as not to confuse the old with the new.

If it's NOT leaking, I'd keep a close watch for its return, listen for any unusual noise from the pump (bearing going) and keep a close check on the temperature of the engine.

As far as the oil leak, as tiny as it is, it won't hurt anything if you keep the oil level full and if the leak doesn't increase. The downside is the leak will leave oil spots wherever you stop the car for any length of time.

Of course, if either increases, or the fluid flies back onto the exhaust causing smoke/odor, then you'll have no choice.

What confused me at first was your reference to front main seal and front bearing leak; never heard it referred to that way. The seal in the timing chain cover can be changed without removing the timing chain cover itself, but it's a little tricky. Removing it is the difficult part, but it can be pryed out with cover in place; it's just a press-fit. Installing a new one is a piece of cake as long as you tap it in straight; tapping all around the circumference of the seal, driving it in a little at a time.

These kinds of problems occur often when the car sits for prolonged periods of time without being driven. Just the nature of the beast.

Keep me posted on what the pressure test results are.

Hope this helps.

Jake

 

Jake,
I did say it wrong, the oil leak is the front seal and not the bearing seal. As for the pressure test I will check it tomorrow and get back to you. Small leaks really don't bother me, it could be worse, it could be the rear main seal. Thanks for all the help. JZ

 

Jake answered this perfectly.

In my first post, I said that the timing cover seal removes and installs from the rear. As several people have alluded to, that was wrong. Removing the seal with the timing cover installed may be a challenge, but unlike I stated, it is possible.

"Front main seal" or "Front bearing seal" are misnomers. There are two possible oil leak locations at the lower front of the engine. The first is the timing cover seal where it seals against the damper and the other is the seal at the front of the oil pan where it seals against the timing cover. Because of the "main" and "bearing" terms used, I ASSUMED you meant the seal between the timing cover and the damper.

The weep hole on the water pump can be seen with a mirror, or felt with your finger. If water is coming out of the weep hole, a water pump replacement is immanent. It would pay to replace it before it leaves you stranded.

RACE ON!!!

 

I would recommend picking up a fel-pro harmonic balancer repair sleeve to have handy for the timing seal repair. The seal usually wears a groove in the hub of the balancer. The repair sleeve presses on the hub to restore it. Cost is less than 10 bucks I believe. This saves on replacing the balancer. When balancer is off the car, inspect the rubber ring that connects the 2 pieces together. If it is in rough shape, replace the balancer with a new one.

 

Jake,
I pressure tested the cooling system twice and no leaks. In fact it help pressure well, I think I know what happened now. The car sat since last October and last week I opened the radiator, when I did some coolant flowed out. Probably from all the temp changes over the fall, winter, and spring months the cooling system was under alittle pressure. I replaced the cap and didn't think much of it, then a day or two later I pulled the car out of the garage and replaced the fuel pump, while doing that job I saw a three to four inch circle of coolant on my drive way. When I pulled the car out of the garage it was on an angle up and the coolant that was resting on the frame from the day before trickled down. Plus maybe it was a leaking cap. I changed the cap today and ran it for 2 hours and everything OK. The only problem now is I saw brake fluid trickling down from under my master cylinder and booster. I'll be posting a thread on that. JZ