Intercooler thickness vs. radiator airflow
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,148
Likes: 1
From: Chandler AZ
Intercooler thickness vs. radiator airflow
I'm looking at intercoolers with endtanks to the side where they won't block the radiator like my ATI 2-core did.
But wondering how thick it can be before it again restricts airflow to the radiator. ATI and many aftermarket use 3" core, but 3.5", 4", 5" are available. Thicker is lower pressure drop and better charge cooling.
So without an AC condenser in there, is a 4" core reasonable? I remember Black Bart had a monster Spearco in there.
What are you guys running these days?
TIA
But wondering how thick it can be before it again restricts airflow to the radiator. ATI and many aftermarket use 3" core, but 3.5", 4", 5" are available. Thicker is lower pressure drop and better charge cooling.
So without an AC condenser in there, is a 4" core reasonable? I remember Black Bart had a monster Spearco in there.
What are you guys running these days?
TIA
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,475
Likes: 0
From: Speedo Indiana
I use a 3.5 inch monster turbonetics intercooler in an underover fashion. I built two shrouds, one in front of the intercooler, and another for each side of the radiator that is not covered by the intercooler. All air entering the original radiator intake hole must eventually go through the radiator, of course some goes through the intercooler first. My car still gets too hot for my liking. Even without a thermostat it runs 205-213 in the summer heat without the A/C on. I have been popping my hood as I go down the road and it keeps it at about 205-210. I think this winter I am going to install some of those greenwood hood vents and maybe an auxilaiiry radiator in the back where the spare tire now resides. My radiator has a huge 16" 3300cfm spal fan that runs constantly. The car will not cool itself very much at all going down the road (which of course is where I should have no problems with cooling). I think I have an air flow problem and you probably will too if you stuff a large intercooler in front of the radiator.
Last edited by TONYDEE64; Aug 2, 2005 at 11:17 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,293
Likes: 79
From: Jackson MI
Here's something you also have to think about. As the cooling air hits the intercooler it starts warming up, by the time it reaches the other side of the intercooler it will be much warmer than initially.
This will then cause warm/hot air to be blowing on your radiator which causes cooling problems. The ideal intercooler is very long and thin to get the best cooling of the charged air and the best cooling to the radiator as well.
Being that we don't have alot of room under our shrouds we've got to make some sacrafices. The longer the intercooler runners the cooler the charge air will be. The thicker the core the less cooling the radiator will have. But you need to still flow enough air to get the proper amount of HP that you want.
I've got some pics of mine laying around somewere if you want me to email them to you, it ran me about $500 for a custom intercooler.
This will then cause warm/hot air to be blowing on your radiator which causes cooling problems. The ideal intercooler is very long and thin to get the best cooling of the charged air and the best cooling to the radiator as well.
Being that we don't have alot of room under our shrouds we've got to make some sacrafices. The longer the intercooler runners the cooler the charge air will be. The thicker the core the less cooling the radiator will have. But you need to still flow enough air to get the proper amount of HP that you want.
I've got some pics of mine laying around somewere if you want me to email them to you, it ran me about $500 for a custom intercooler.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,637
Likes: 2
From: Honeoye Ny
Originally Posted by TONYDEE64
I use a 3.5 inch monster turbonetics intercooler in an underover fashion. I built two shrouds, one in front of the intercooler, and another for each side of the radiator that is not covered by the intercooler. All air entering the original radiator intake hole must eventually go through the radiator, of course some goes through the intercooler first. My car still gets too hot for my liking. Even without a thermostat it runs 205-213 in the summer heat without the A/C on. I have been popping my hood as I go down the road and it keeps it at about 205-210. I think this winter I am going to install some of those greenwood hood vents and maybe an auxilaiiry radiator in the back where the spare tire now resides. My radiator has a huge 16" 3300cfm spal fan that runs constantly. The car will not cool itself very much at all going down the road (which of course is where I should have no problems with cooling). I think I have an air flow problem and you probably will too if you stuff a large intercooler in front of the radiator.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,475
Likes: 0
From: Speedo Indiana
Originally Posted by Baldturbofreak
Im tellin ya Tony, that evans NPG+ is the Joint and will cure your ails.
Will it give me 10 degree lower temps? I'd be happy if it would run consistently under 200 degrees. Maybe my million dollar BeCool radiator core is blown out.. I did run a high pressure cap there for awhile...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,158
Likes: 9
From: N.E. WA
I'll be running the evans NPG. I'm thinking of trying it in my other car as well. I thought that after about 3.5" thick core, the intercooler efficiency drops dramatically. What I mean is, a 7" thick core won't cool the air twice as much as the 3.5. Good luck...
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,148
Likes: 1
From: Chandler AZ
No I wasn't considering anything over 4" thick; more like choosing between a couple 24" crossflow bar/plate cores:
24x12x4" claimed .2psi drop @ 15psi, up to 800hp
24x12x3" claimed .2psi drop @ 15psi, up to 600hp
Too bad they don't publish CFM, but the design looks sound and cross-sectional area is decent.
Tony- your engine must have chills! Anyone with a C4 (blown or not) should be thrilled with 210. I'd be happy if mine stayed under 240...
I'll try to help it out with an alum front airscoop, plus opening up the license plate / crashbar area. Planning to line up the IC with radiator core (no AC), full front shroud, then dual SPAL 11" full shroud in back.
mn_vette- Send some pics of your setup- thanks!
georgecrouse@qwest.net
24x12x4" claimed .2psi drop @ 15psi, up to 800hp
24x12x3" claimed .2psi drop @ 15psi, up to 600hp
Too bad they don't publish CFM, but the design looks sound and cross-sectional area is decent.
Tony- your engine must have chills! Anyone with a C4 (blown or not) should be thrilled with 210. I'd be happy if mine stayed under 240...
I'll try to help it out with an alum front airscoop, plus opening up the license plate / crashbar area. Planning to line up the IC with radiator core (no AC), full front shroud, then dual SPAL 11" full shroud in back.
mn_vette- Send some pics of your setup- thanks!
georgecrouse@qwest.net
Last edited by gcrouse; Aug 2, 2005 at 08:03 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,637
Likes: 2
From: Honeoye Ny
Originally Posted by TONYDEE64
Rick,
Will it give me 10 degree lower temps? I'd be happy if it would run consistently under 200 degrees. Maybe my million dollar BeCool radiator core is blown out.. I did run a high pressure cap there for awhile...
Will it give me 10 degree lower temps? I'd be happy if it would run consistently under 200 degrees. Maybe my million dollar BeCool radiator core is blown out.. I did run a high pressure cap there for awhile...
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Drifting
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,475
Likes: 0
From: Speedo Indiana
Originally Posted by Baldturbofreak
well, yes and no, the metal will be infact 10-30+ deg cooler, but that heat will be in the coolant, so the guage might read a touch higher. Evans doesn't boil until 450+ so there is no pressure in the coolant system anywho. The coolant does a far better job wetting the material, picking up the heat, and then taking off. It supposed to be run at high flow rates. www.evanscooling.com read their white paper on the subject. Ther physics look sound to me.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 2,872
Likes: 3
From: Wilmington NC
MN,
what you are saying is true, however.. at cruise and idle the intercooler should not be much hotter then the ambient.. it does not come into effect until under boost and compressing of air occurs.. at vacuum should just be a slight restriction. I have installed the 4" thick OBX intercooler side to side in my 96, and am curious as to how she performs and cools. I also run a meziere electric waterpump and with a modded heads and cam motor, a cleaned out radiator and fresh 70/30 water dexcool, and 160* stat, my car was running between 172-179 all day long even in 90+ degree summer weather.. the meziere pump is awesome and flows alot more at cruise idle then a belt driven/ cam driven waterpump.. this eliminate hot spots in the cylinder heads as well and provides more uniform cooling to the engine throughout. so i guess I will have to see if I have any new temperature issues to deal with with the elimination of the AC radiator and the implementation of the 4" thick IC. I may be changing directions in jobs soon and if that is the case it will be alot more free time and alot more money to play with.. I am crossing my fingers it comes to light for me!
if so I will finally have some free time to get my car running!
Chris
what you are saying is true, however.. at cruise and idle the intercooler should not be much hotter then the ambient.. it does not come into effect until under boost and compressing of air occurs.. at vacuum should just be a slight restriction. I have installed the 4" thick OBX intercooler side to side in my 96, and am curious as to how she performs and cools. I also run a meziere electric waterpump and with a modded heads and cam motor, a cleaned out radiator and fresh 70/30 water dexcool, and 160* stat, my car was running between 172-179 all day long even in 90+ degree summer weather.. the meziere pump is awesome and flows alot more at cruise idle then a belt driven/ cam driven waterpump.. this eliminate hot spots in the cylinder heads as well and provides more uniform cooling to the engine throughout. so i guess I will have to see if I have any new temperature issues to deal with with the elimination of the AC radiator and the implementation of the 4" thick IC. I may be changing directions in jobs soon and if that is the case it will be alot more free time and alot more money to play with.. I am crossing my fingers it comes to light for me!
if so I will finally have some free time to get my car running!
Chris
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,475
Likes: 0
From: Speedo Indiana
Originally Posted by Baldturbofreak
You should install a small bypass hose in that section to "burp" the system continuously.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,525
Likes: 2
From: Houston TX
Chris,
I sent some pics to you, and in those pics were a couple of the IC (sorry about the size of the email with the items for sale). If you get a chance, could I trouble you to toss the IC pics up here. The core is 5.5" thick and 22" wide. It flows top to bottom and wraps around the radiator. This IC has absolutely nothing in front of any of the flow area of the radiator.
As for the comment on Black Bart's Spearco IC, his is exactly the same dimensions of the one I am currently running, and it is still a side to side feed (he got the dimensions from mine). Even though it is 3" thick, it does not have the capacity to cool the air when you go to larger flows with the blower. I regularly see 225°F as IATs.
I believe the trick is to a) not obstruct the airflow into the radiator core, b) not have any parts of the IC so close to either the radiator or evaporator as to experience radiant heating, and c) to duct as much fresh cool air through the IC and radiator combo so that the air charge is sufficiently cooled.
I have another post further down that showed pics as I was building the larger IC.
Aaron
I sent some pics to you, and in those pics were a couple of the IC (sorry about the size of the email with the items for sale). If you get a chance, could I trouble you to toss the IC pics up here. The core is 5.5" thick and 22" wide. It flows top to bottom and wraps around the radiator. This IC has absolutely nothing in front of any of the flow area of the radiator.
As for the comment on Black Bart's Spearco IC, his is exactly the same dimensions of the one I am currently running, and it is still a side to side feed (he got the dimensions from mine). Even though it is 3" thick, it does not have the capacity to cool the air when you go to larger flows with the blower. I regularly see 225°F as IATs.
I believe the trick is to a) not obstruct the airflow into the radiator core, b) not have any parts of the IC so close to either the radiator or evaporator as to experience radiant heating, and c) to duct as much fresh cool air through the IC and radiator combo so that the air charge is sufficiently cooled.
I have another post further down that showed pics as I was building the larger IC.
Aaron
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 2,872
Likes: 3
From: Wilmington NC
hey man.. sorry about that... I am trying out a new email spam blocker and it likely put your emails in thelist.. i probably deleted them.. shoot them my way and i will keep an eye out for them this go around!
Chris
Chris
