removing emissions
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
Likes: 45
From: San Pedro CA
Originally Posted by Slalom4me
Don't be such a wuss.
Those guys would find a way to polish the pimples off a gnat's
behind if they thought it could make them faster or if they needed
to in order to pass tech.
Ever look at the issues they overcame to produce compound
forced induction (blower/turbo) and sequential forced induction
(big & little turbos).
I say it is time for a little 'Farmer cut and try...' Give the guys
that run cleaner a weight break or more fuel allowance. If heat
is an issue, they'll have it solved within a season.
.
Those guys would find a way to polish the pimples off a gnat's
behind if they thought it could make them faster or if they needed
to in order to pass tech.
Ever look at the issues they overcame to produce compound
forced induction (blower/turbo) and sequential forced induction
(big & little turbos).
I say it is time for a little 'Farmer cut and try...' Give the guys
that run cleaner a weight break or more fuel allowance. If heat
is an issue, they'll have it solved within a season.
.
Back in 1992, Mazda produced a new GTP car for the IMSA series. The car, the RZ7GTP92 was one bad assed looking car! Very space-ship like! However, the car had a 3-rotor (or was it 4? I don't remember) rotary engine and those things are noted for being very loud. Sometime in January of 1992, IMSA was observing testing at a track in South Carolina and found that the car was not only exceeding the sound limits, it was blowing it into next Thursday.
IMSA ordered them to muffle the engine. So they built a muffler that was about 3' long, 10" high and about 18" deep. The inlet pipe was about 6" in diameter! This thing was huge. However, it did allow the engine to meet the noise restrictions.
That created problem #2... heat... Rotories are noted for astoundingly high manifold temperatures, and a racing rotary after a few hot laps got insanely hot. The muffler got so damned hot that it caught the fiberglass bodywork on fire!!!!! The solution? Space shuttle heat tiles.
The car never did well; the GTP class went away after the 1993 series, but the car was quiet and didn't catch fire.
With all of this in mind, F1 and ALMS could easily support a large volume cat with heat tiles and more then likely not effect performance one bit... and eliminate the need for the mufflers that ALMS requires these days. F1 has no such requirement.
NASCAR has a bigger problem... they are still testing with unleaded fuels. The last I read, the unleaded fuels caused much higher operating temperatures. Until NASCAR is willing to modernize their engines, I don't see them using unleaded, or emissions.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,596
Likes: 19
From: Portland Oregon
Originally Posted by Slalom4me
Ahhh, Kangaroo Court.
EGR: Tried, convicted and hung.
Evidence? We don't need no stinkin evidence!
Why not spend a little time to learn about what EGR is
for and how it works before deciding it is bad for our
car's performance. Here is a short course to get us
started.
** ---- EGR101 ----- **
Exhaust gas recirculation systems (EGR) reintroduce
exhaust gas into the incoming air/fuel mixture in order
to dilute it. The purpose of this is to reduce combustion
temperatures. The issue is that at combustion temperatures
>= 2,500º, NOx creation skyrockets. Lowering peak combustion
temperatures to values below 2,500º reduces output of oxides
of nitrogen (NOx).
Ok, so EGR cuts NOx by diluting the A/F mix with exhaust gas.
When does it do this in the operating cycle and does this
hurt performance?
EGR does not hurt performance. By design, EGR operation is
disabled any time that it might hamper efficiency or driveability.
So EGR is non-operational during wide-open throttle,
warm-up and idle. If it is n/o during WOT, what good
is ripping it off your car going to do for performance??
Well, when IS EGR operational? Combustion temperatures
are highest during cruise and mid-range acceleration. This is
when EGR dilutes A/F the most. Do we notice it - NO.
EGR also permits a reduced flow at low speed and light load.
Do we notice it - NO.
So much for EGR101.
Now, how about considering just one good reason why a car
enthusiast should be in favour of maintaining EGR operation.
I'll spare you the warm 'n fuzzy ones, let's just look at
what's in it for you 'n me.
(and that's a bad thing ...)
.
EGR: Tried, convicted and hung.
Evidence? We don't need no stinkin evidence!
Why not spend a little time to learn about what EGR is
for and how it works before deciding it is bad for our
car's performance. Here is a short course to get us
started.
** ---- EGR101 ----- **
Exhaust gas recirculation systems (EGR) reintroduce
exhaust gas into the incoming air/fuel mixture in order
to dilute it. The purpose of this is to reduce combustion
temperatures. The issue is that at combustion temperatures
>= 2,500º, NOx creation skyrockets. Lowering peak combustion
temperatures to values below 2,500º reduces output of oxides
of nitrogen (NOx).
Ok, so EGR cuts NOx by diluting the A/F mix with exhaust gas.
When does it do this in the operating cycle and does this
hurt performance?
EGR does not hurt performance. By design, EGR operation is
disabled any time that it might hamper efficiency or driveability.
So EGR is non-operational during wide-open throttle,
warm-up and idle. If it is n/o during WOT, what good
is ripping it off your car going to do for performance??
Well, when IS EGR operational? Combustion temperatures
are highest during cruise and mid-range acceleration. This is
when EGR dilutes A/F the most. Do we notice it - NO.
EGR also permits a reduced flow at low speed and light load.
Do we notice it - NO.
So much for EGR101.
Now, how about considering just one good reason why a car
enthusiast should be in favour of maintaining EGR operation.
I'll spare you the warm 'n fuzzy ones, let's just look at
what's in it for you 'n me.
- FACT: Paint is damaged by acid rain
- FACT: Acid rain occurs in part when nitrogen oxides
combine with water - FACT: Formation of nitrogen oxides (NOx) is greatly
increased when the EGR system is disabled
(and that's a bad thing ...)
.
