Dart Heads
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Dart Heads
Firstly: I was looking at buying a set of used dart heads (steel)w/ manly stainless valves- 2.06 & 1.60, 64cc chamber to put on my vet. Has anyone had experience with these haeds and or valve combo? i would also like to know, again if anyone uses this set up, or something similar to it what cam you are running and how does it effect engine management systems??
and secondly: i am having a shop tune my vet this week, its long overdue, and i was wondering if anyone has messed with the timing at all? is this a no-no, or can it net some benifit? Cheers.
Joe.
and secondly: i am having a shop tune my vet this week, its long overdue, and i was wondering if anyone has messed with the timing at all? is this a no-no, or can it net some benifit? Cheers.
Joe.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,146
Likes: 3
From: The Motor City
Originally Posted by AusJoe
Firstly: I was looking at buying a set of used dart heads (steel)w/ manly stainless valves- 2.06 & 1.60, 64cc chamber to put on my vet. Has anyone had experience with these haeds and or valve combo? i would also like to know, again if anyone uses this set up, or something similar to it what cam you are running and how does it effect engine management systems??
and secondly: i am having a shop tune my vet this week, its long overdue, and i was wondering if anyone has messed with the timing at all? is this a no-no, or can it net some benifit? Cheers.
and secondly: i am having a shop tune my vet this week, its long overdue, and i was wondering if anyone has messed with the timing at all? is this a no-no, or can it net some benifit? Cheers.
Timing is base a no., the comp. should be doing all the global adj. I never got mine to work well above 8*still have at 6*(w/est disconnected) though, others will disagree I am sure
Last edited by mseven; Oct 3, 2005 at 02:15 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 875
Likes: 0
From: Louisville KY
I have a set of minorly CNC ported/polished Dart IE 180cc/64cc chambered heads with 2.02/1.6 valves and crane springs rated to .600" lift if they would fit your application better. Like the others said, we need to know what year and what mods you have.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 6,341
Likes: 1
From: Shelton CT
Stock internal/cam '85 with LPE Superram/longtubes/ Dana44 w/3.45's and I'm in the low 12's (should be high 11's after new tranny/tc) after putting on a set of race ported Dart Iron Eagles (200cc runners, 2.02/1.60 valves).
car seems to love 6degrees timing, but I burn my own chips, and I change my timing tables for best performance..
Just added Nitrous to the car.. can't wait how she runs..
car seems to love 6degrees timing, but I burn my own chips, and I change my timing tables for best performance..
Just added Nitrous to the car.. can't wait how she runs..
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Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
My 'VETTE (thanks for the education!!!) is an '84 (cross fire), auto, standard engine bar: iridium plugs, K&N filter, 2.25 exhaust and Chip.
Intake runners on these heads are 215cc, how is this going to be a problem??? the standard heads have what???
the heads are ported to felpro 1206 gaskets, and have had extensive amounts of porting i believe.
Is there anything else i should take into consideration??? ie comp ratio with 64cc chambers???
If i was to advance the timing to 8 degs, would this mess with the computer at all?
what do you mean, angled plugs??? Thanks.
Joe.
Intake runners on these heads are 215cc, how is this going to be a problem??? the standard heads have what???
the heads are ported to felpro 1206 gaskets, and have had extensive amounts of porting i believe.
Is there anything else i should take into consideration??? ie comp ratio with 64cc chambers???
If i was to advance the timing to 8 degs, would this mess with the computer at all?
what do you mean, angled plugs??? Thanks.
Joe.
Last edited by AusJoe; Oct 4, 2005 at 05:16 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,146
Likes: 3
From: The Motor City
Originally Posted by AusJoe
My 'VETTE (thanks for the education!!!) is an '84 (cross fire), auto, standard engine bar: iridium plugs, K&N filter, 2.25 exhaust and Chip.Intake runners on these heads are 215cc, how is this going to be a problem??? the standard heads have what???
the heads are ported to felpro 1206 gaskets, and have had extensive amounts of porting i believe.
Is there anything else i should take into consideration??? ie comp ratio with 64cc chambers???
If i was to advance the timing to 8 degs, would this mess with the computer at all? what do you mean, angled plugs??? Thanks.
Joe.
the heads are ported to felpro 1206 gaskets, and have had extensive amounts of porting i believe.
Is there anything else i should take into consideration??? ie comp ratio with 64cc chambers???
If i was to advance the timing to 8 degs, would this mess with the computer at all? what do you mean, angled plugs??? Thanks.
Joe.
I think that others who have (CFI) these will chime in, but I'm not sure that is a roller block, which may change available combinations (heads, cam etc.)
I am sure there are some who may argue this, but the initial of setting 6-8*wont mess up the comp., but when est. is re-hooked up the comp. will adjust it from there. On mine at 8* and above, I felt that the timing across the board became to high (IMO). *8 wasn't bad but I went back to 6* and let the computer do its job. IMO
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
IMO 215cc is waaay to big for your 350, it just won't run no matter how much cam you throw at it. Shoot for a good 180 head for a street car, 195 max. A good flowing 180 head will be more than enough for any aftermarket TPI intake system, your limiting factor and will make great power everywhere.Edit: oops, didn't see you have a Crossfire, not TPI.
Last edited by cv67; Oct 4, 2005 at 10:07 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,699
Likes: 2
From: The Black Hole LA
I don't know how much material the crossfire intake manifold has, but the tpi manifold doesn't have enough material at the top of the intake ports to support a felpro 1206, regardless of whether that is to big for your 350 or not, which it is IMO. I know the 1206 won't work because it happenned to me. Do a search on my user name from about a month ago, I had a thread with pics. You can make it work by welding material on or using a double thick gasket so I was told, but I don't like having to 'make' things work.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,270
Likes: 3
From: Seattle Area WA
Dart's angle head is not the L98 angle that you have on your car right now, so on certain longtubes (LPE) there is very very very tight clearance, its doable but there is no reason to try it.
Also, with 215cc on a 383 you better be running a huge cam and winding it up to 7000+ rpm. Since you are running a 350 you should definitly run 180cc they will also do great on a 383 FYI. The giant intake port will kill port velocity at low rpms and I garuntee your motor will be a dog all the way past what your intake manifold will let you rev to. Now, 200s are better, but I think 180s ported would be spot on.
Just my .02.
Also, with 215cc on a 383 you better be running a huge cam and winding it up to 7000+ rpm. Since you are running a 350 you should definitly run 180cc they will also do great on a 383 FYI. The giant intake port will kill port velocity at low rpms and I garuntee your motor will be a dog all the way past what your intake manifold will let you rev to. Now, 200s are better, but I think 180s ported would be spot on.
Just my .02.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 993
Likes: 3
From: Iowa
A few years back a fellow racer ran some CFI and had good luck with it. I believe that he had a modified 4 barrel intake with adapter that matched up to the 1206's well and allowed him to run the CFI on top of it. Actually smoked my Tuned port on the track for point of fact. That combination pulled hard through the mid range with more of a moderate cam so I think you would be happy with the 215's if you upgraded you intake and a few other parts just to make sure you can get fuel to it. I would not put a lot of weight into intake runner size and how the engine will or will not run. The power curve at this level is determined by your camshaft selection not your runner size. You will get good power from low to mid with any cylinder head if you cam it properly until you get a runner into the 250's-285 range and more importantly a intake valve into the 2.200 range. I have a set of 220 cc runners on a 355 and even with one of the most aggressive solid roller cam and ported single plane intake it starts to nose over at about 6500 rpms just for comparison.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 22
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ok. points taken about runner size. I am no expert, but surley if the runner was larger power would be the same as if it was smaller at lower RPM, but whenit is being revved it would allow higher flow. Especially with a non carb engine.
Can anyone confirm that the cross fire manifold can support the size of 1206?? do these gaskets have not only a larger port hole, but more area on the outside??
Joe.
Can anyone confirm that the cross fire manifold can support the size of 1206?? do these gaskets have not only a larger port hole, but more area on the outside??
Joe.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,146
Likes: 3
From: The Motor City
Originally Posted by AusJoe
ok. points taken about runner size. I am no expert, but surley if the runner was larger power would be the same as if it was smaller at lower RPM, but whenit is being revved it would allow higher flow. Especially with a non carb engine.
Can anyone confirm that the cross fire manifold can support the size of 1206?? do these gaskets have not only a larger port hole, but more area on the outside?? Joe.
Last edited by mseven; Oct 6, 2005 at 07:28 AM.
Pro
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
From: 84 383 XFire Chandler, AZ
I am running 195s/64cc TrickFlows on my 383 in my 84. I would not go much larger than that. To feed it you would either need a ported stock manifold or a XRam. The guys at http://www.crossfire.homeip.net/ are also experimenting with a siamesed crossfire manifold (I have one yet to install).
Checkout the Crossfire Forum.....
Checkout the Crossfire Forum.....
