Header collector bolts???
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 859
Likes: 7
From: Spring Texas
St. Jude Donor '05
Header collector bolts???
I've had headers on my car now for about a year and only put about 2500 miles on it, but The collector bolts keep falling out...
I have "double nut'd" the bolts, but they still fall off...
Are there any "trick" header collector bolts on the market that dont fall off??
I've thought about drilling the nuts and safety wireing them, but I thought I would check to see what other CF folks are doing first...
I have "double nut'd" the bolts, but they still fall off...
Are there any "trick" header collector bolts on the market that dont fall off??
I've thought about drilling the nuts and safety wireing them, but I thought I would check to see what other CF folks are doing first...
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
At least i know i am not the only one with this problem. I have tried everything short of welding the nuts on. If you do find a solution please post it so the rest of us can benefit as well. Good luck fellow hot rodder! 
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 90,675
Likes: 304
From: SE NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
You could try Stage 8 header bolts.
They a hex base that accepts a washer with a hex center and a flat on one side. This flat rests against a header tube and prevents the bolt from turning out.
You could try retightening your stock header bolts after a few temp cycles. Maybe for this you want to use grade eight bolts to avoid breaking them.
They a hex base that accepts a washer with a hex center and a flat on one side. This flat rests against a header tube and prevents the bolt from turning out.
You could try retightening your stock header bolts after a few temp cycles. Maybe for this you want to use grade eight bolts to avoid breaking them.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,036
Likes: 13
From: Edmonton AB
I agree with 65Z01 that if Stage 8's are available
for your collectors, these would be the quick 'n
easy sure fix.
Because lockwashers can lose their tension, these
could give mixed results. Won't hurt. Safety wire
washers as used on motorcycles are a good bet.
All metal locknuts (not nylocks) might do the job.
Pegasus Racing carries Jet Nuts. Nice,
but I bet if you check HomeDepot, local specialty
fastener houses or farm equipment dealers that you
can find the old style metal locknuts.
For extra security, consider drilled bolts. You might
find these locally, get them from someone like
Pegasus or make your own. If you want to
make your own, consider buying a Nut Drill Jig
If you are ever considering new headers, collectors
with slip joints do away with collector flange issues.
As a final thought - ensure that your exhaust system
is well hung. Years ago I remember seeing systems
suspended with little or no allowance for movement
or heat growth - people wondered why their headers
were leaking and cracking.
.
for your collectors, these would be the quick 'n
easy sure fix.
Because lockwashers can lose their tension, these
could give mixed results. Won't hurt. Safety wire
washers as used on motorcycles are a good bet.
All metal locknuts (not nylocks) might do the job.
Pegasus Racing carries Jet Nuts. Nice,
but I bet if you check HomeDepot, local specialty
fastener houses or farm equipment dealers that you
can find the old style metal locknuts.
For extra security, consider drilled bolts. You might
find these locally, get them from someone like
Pegasus or make your own. If you want to
make your own, consider buying a Nut Drill Jig
If you are ever considering new headers, collectors
with slip joints do away with collector flange issues.
As a final thought - ensure that your exhaust system
is well hung. Years ago I remember seeing systems
suspended with little or no allowance for movement
or heat growth - people wondered why their headers
were leaking and cracking.
.
Last edited by Slalom4me; Oct 21, 2005 at 06:17 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,146
Likes: 3
From: The Motor City
Originally Posted by skateparkdave
I'm not having the problem on my hookers but if I did I would try some lock washers, then maybe double nutting too.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 859
Likes: 7
From: Spring Texas
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by skateparkdave
I'm not having the problem on my hookers but if I did I would try some lock washers, then maybe double nutting too.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 859
Likes: 7
From: Spring Texas
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by 65Z01
You could try Stage 8 header bolts.
They a hex base that accepts a washer with a hex center and a flat on one side. This flat rests against a header tube and prevents the bolt from turning out.
You could try retightening your stock header bolts after a few temp cycles. Maybe for this you want to use grade eight bolts to avoid breaking them.
They a hex base that accepts a washer with a hex center and a flat on one side. This flat rests against a header tube and prevents the bolt from turning out.
You could try retightening your stock header bolts after a few temp cycles. Maybe for this you want to use grade eight bolts to avoid breaking them.
But the problem is under the car at the collector...
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 859
Likes: 7
From: Spring Texas
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by Slalom4me
I agree with 65Z01 that if Stage 8's are available
for your collectors, these would be the quick 'n
easy sure fix.
Because lockwashers can lose their tension, these
could give mixed results. Won't hurt. Safety wire
washers as used on motorcycles are a good bet.
All metal locknuts (not nylocks) might do the job.
Pegasus Racing carries Jet Nuts. Nice,
but I bet if you check HomeDepot, local specialty
fastener houses or farm equipment dealers that you
can find the old style metal locknuts.
For extra security, consider drilled bolts. You might
find these locally, get them from someone like
Pegasus or make your own. If you want to
make your own, consider buying a Nut Drill Jig
If you are ever considering new headers, collectors
with slip joints do away with collector flange issues.
As a final thought - ensure that your exhaust system
is well hung. Years ago I remember seeing systems
suspended with little or no allowance for movement
or heat growth - people wondered why their headers
were leaking and cracking.
.
for your collectors, these would be the quick 'n
easy sure fix.
Because lockwashers can lose their tension, these
could give mixed results. Won't hurt. Safety wire
washers as used on motorcycles are a good bet.
All metal locknuts (not nylocks) might do the job.
Pegasus Racing carries Jet Nuts. Nice,
but I bet if you check HomeDepot, local specialty
fastener houses or farm equipment dealers that you
can find the old style metal locknuts.
For extra security, consider drilled bolts. You might
find these locally, get them from someone like
Pegasus or make your own. If you want to
make your own, consider buying a Nut Drill Jig
If you are ever considering new headers, collectors
with slip joints do away with collector flange issues.
As a final thought - ensure that your exhaust system
is well hung. Years ago I remember seeing systems
suspended with little or no allowance for movement
or heat growth - people wondered why their headers
were leaking and cracking.
.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,036
Likes: 13
From: Edmonton AB
Originally Posted by mseven
And some 271 locktite should cure the prob.
Reason I ask is because usually these types of
agents release with heat. IIRC - red locktite,
releases with application of 450º
From Summit's site: "Threadlocker 271 is removable
with heat..."
.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 301
Likes: 0
From: Dallas/Spring Texas
I can't recall the brand name of the bolts but they have some that are drilled to a taper through the middle of the bolt and have some slits in the bolt shaft running lengthwise. The inside is tapped for a allen set screw so that when you tighten the set screw down it puts a lot of pressure on the sides of the bolt where they contact the nut (or in a header situation like they're designed for, the head). You may be able to use those as long as they are the correct length and engage the nuts completely. If I come across where I saw them I'll let you know.
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 90,675
Likes: 304
From: SE NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
Sorry 65coop, my bad; I didn't catch "collector" in the original problem statement.
If you have bolts (as opposed to studs) and nuts is sounds like the bolts are streatching due to heat. I think grade 8 bolts might reduce that tendency and maintain enough tension on the nuts to avoid backing off.If you are using lock washers, they too may be getting heated so much that they lose tension.
Maybe hi-temp lock tite would work, depending on how hot the bolts are getting.
BTW, are your headers ceramic coated inside??
If you have bolts (as opposed to studs) and nuts is sounds like the bolts are streatching due to heat. I think grade 8 bolts might reduce that tendency and maintain enough tension on the nuts to avoid backing off.If you are using lock washers, they too may be getting heated so much that they lose tension.
Maybe hi-temp lock tite would work, depending on how hot the bolts are getting.
BTW, are your headers ceramic coated inside??
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 859
Likes: 7
From: Spring Texas
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by 65Z01
Sorry 65coop, my bad; I didn't catch "collector" in the original problem statement.
If you have bolts (as opposed to studs) and nuts is sounds like the bolts are streatching due to heat. I think grade 8 bolts might reduce that tendency and maintain enough tension on the nuts to avoid backing off.If you are using lock washers, they too may be getting heated so much that they lose tension.
Maybe hi-temp lock tite would work, depending on how hot the bolts are getting.
BTW, are your headers ceramic coated inside??
If you have bolts (as opposed to studs) and nuts is sounds like the bolts are streatching due to heat. I think grade 8 bolts might reduce that tendency and maintain enough tension on the nuts to avoid backing off.If you are using lock washers, they too may be getting heated so much that they lose tension.
Maybe hi-temp lock tite would work, depending on how hot the bolts are getting.
BTW, are your headers ceramic coated inside??
- I have done several searches looking for the Stage 8 Collector bolt kit and found nothing..I did use high temp loctite, grade 8 bolts & lock washers w/ double nuts - but they still came loose..
And yes - the headers are coated inside & out..
It looks to me, either the mulitple bolt replacements or heat is starting to really put a bend in the flange ring - it's bent over pretty far... That is the main reason for this post - I'm afraid that pretty soon, the ring will no longer line up or crack...
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 859
Likes: 7
From: Spring Texas
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by sickspeedvette
I can't recall the brand name of the bolts but they have some that are drilled to a taper through the middle of the bolt and have some slits in the bolt shaft running lengthwise. The inside is tapped for a allen set screw so that when you tighten the set screw down it puts a lot of pressure on the sides of the bolt where they contact the nut (or in a header situation like they're designed for, the head). You may be able to use those as long as they are the correct length and engage the nuts completely. If I come across where I saw them I'll let you know.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,146
Likes: 3
From: The Motor City
Originally Posted by Slalom4me
I dunno, did this work for you in a heated location?
Reason I ask is because usually these types of agents release with heat. IIRC - red locktite, releases with application of 450º
From Summit's site: "Threadlocker 271 is removablewith heat...".
Reason I ask is because usually these types of agents release with heat. IIRC - red locktite, releases with application of 450º
From Summit's site: "Threadlocker 271 is removablewith heat...".
That is a good point though and I do have some other stuff that is real h.temp.(1000+) I have to look for it though and I'll post.
I am a bit surprised that a combination of that, and double lock nut isn't working :eek
I did use high temp loctite, grade 8 bolts & lock washers w/ double nuts - but they still came loose..
looks to me, either the mulitple bolt replacements or heat is starting to really put a bend in the flange ring - it's bent over pretty far...
looks to me, either the mulitple bolt replacements or heat is starting to really put a bend in the flange ring - it's bent over pretty far...
Last edited by mseven; Oct 21, 2005 at 08:02 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,036
Likes: 13
From: Edmonton AB
Originally Posted by 65coop
I have done several searches looking for the
Stage 8 Collector bolt kit and found nothing..
Stage 8 Collector bolt kit and found nothing..
- p/n# 8950 (6) 3/8 16X1" BOLTS 6PT MSRP $25.95
Or you can get them from the likes of Summit
(p/n STG-8950) for $15.95
.
Last edited by Slalom4me; Oct 21, 2005 at 07:59 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,036
Likes: 13
From: Edmonton AB
Thanks, good to know about that.
Me too. As I mentioned earlier, I'd check the rest of
the system for something wacky. Don't know the rest
of the story about his set up or application. If it was
mine and I was endurance racing then I'd be looking
at a different collector-to-pipe union and fastener
technology.
.
Originally Posted by mseven
I am a bit surprised that a combination of
that and double lock nut isn't working
that and double lock nut isn't working
the system for something wacky. Don't know the rest
of the story about his set up or application. If it was
mine and I was endurance racing then I'd be looking
at a different collector-to-pipe union and fastener
technology.
.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,490
Likes: 68
From: Hewitt NJ
Originally Posted by 65coop
I have seen these and have been looking for some for the collector, but no luck as of yet.. Summit - I think that is where I seen them, but they are too short for the collector..
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 859
Likes: 7
From: Spring Texas
St. Jude Donor '05
About the exhaust system = Headman LT' w/ ball & socket type collector - The exhaust is a full Corsa LT1 system - no cats...
Thanks for the links to the bolt kit's
but I think I need longer bolts, due to the ball & socket flange...
I think the ball and socket type collector might be the problem.... The bolts are about 2" - 2.5" long - If one comes out, they all become loose and rattle like crazy.
Thanks for the links to the bolt kit's
but I think I need longer bolts, due to the ball & socket flange...I think the ball and socket type collector might be the problem.... The bolts are about 2" - 2.5" long - If one comes out, they all become loose and rattle like crazy.