Need some helpful hints on installing ball joints.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
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From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Need some helpful hints on installing ball joints.
Got Napa lower ball joints, the giant c clamp from autozone...
Got the old one out easy enough.. this new one will NOT go in, with my 10 ton press or the loaner tool. I already ground down one of autozone's vice collars so it'd fit somewhat flush on the top side of the control arm.
The napa part is 0.010" bigger than the one I removed, and about 0.020" bigger than the hole in the control arm.
I'm gonna order moog from rockauto.com... assuming these napa ones arent already moog. Look familar to anyone?
Has "88" stamped in one end. The other has some nonsense markings on it. Boxes say made in u.s.a.... instructions are english/french/span and the grammer is fine, so they're not chinese parts.
Got the old one out easy enough.. this new one will NOT go in, with my 10 ton press or the loaner tool. I already ground down one of autozone's vice collars so it'd fit somewhat flush on the top side of the control arm.
The napa part is 0.010" bigger than the one I removed, and about 0.020" bigger than the hole in the control arm.
I'm gonna order moog from rockauto.com... assuming these napa ones arent already moog. Look familar to anyone?
Has "88" stamped in one end. The other has some nonsense markings on it. Boxes say made in u.s.a.... instructions are english/french/span and the grammer is fine, so they're not chinese parts.
Last edited by CentralCoaster; Dec 7, 2005 at 04:24 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 17,551
Likes: 26
From: El Paso Texas
Use the press if you have one. I never could get mine in with the tool. Took my uppers and lower arms off and took them to a brake shop to press the new ones in. Guy did it for $40 for all 4 ball joints.
The lower control arms only take about 5-10 minutes to remove. Two bolts with nuts on the frame, the sway bar, shock mount, and that's it.
Will save you some grief.
The lower control arms only take about 5-10 minutes to remove. Two bolts with nuts on the frame, the sway bar, shock mount, and that's it.
Will save you some grief.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
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From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Always more to it. Gotta move the truck out of the garage to get to the work bench and press... and there's no other place to park the truck for several blocks at this hour.
Damn.. I like the idea of bringing it to someone else. Guess I'm not racing tomorrow.
Damn.. I like the idea of bringing it to someone else. Guess I'm not racing tomorrow.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 17,551
Likes: 26
From: El Paso Texas
I had no other choice. Don't own a press (on the shopping list one of these days) so had to farm out that part. I know a good mom and pop brake shop that's reasonable and does good work. I took them the arms in the morning, picked them up on my lunch break, and had the car back together an hour after work.
Wouldn't hurt to align the car when you're done, even if you're not touching the uppers. Anything you do changes the steering geometry, if only slightly.
Wouldn't hurt to align the car when you're done, even if you're not touching the uppers. Anything you do changes the steering geometry, if only slightly.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
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Cruise-In II Veteran
Hey Buddy,
I have always heard the new Ball joints are always a wee-bit larger,seems to take up any slack the old one caused.
When this is the case,the press is always needed.Hope it works out for ya.When I worked at a GM dealer,we always replaced the entire control arm,never the ball joint itself.Yeah they made more money off it but we never had to use a press to simply replace the joints.That being said,over the years,when I have seen ball joints replaced,it was usually done on a press.No C clamp can give ya the hydraulic push youre looking to get!
Let us know how it works out!
I have always heard the new Ball joints are always a wee-bit larger,seems to take up any slack the old one caused.
When this is the case,the press is always needed.Hope it works out for ya.When I worked at a GM dealer,we always replaced the entire control arm,never the ball joint itself.Yeah they made more money off it but we never had to use a press to simply replace the joints.That being said,over the years,when I have seen ball joints replaced,it was usually done on a press.No C clamp can give ya the hydraulic push youre looking to get!
Let us know how it works out!
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
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From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
I've put some force on that press before... watched it flex 1/2". That's got some FAT steel gussets on it too. Bet I exceeded it's 20 ton rating. Would not want to witness that thing break.
Unfortunately the arbor plates are uneven thickness so sometimes it shoots parts out sideways.
fkn harbor freight...
Ok, I'm gonna go find parking for my freshly waxed washed truck under a sap tree on the 4 lane bumper car parallel parking boulevard.
Unfortunately the arbor plates are uneven thickness so sometimes it shoots parts out sideways.
fkn harbor freight...Ok, I'm gonna go find parking for my freshly waxed washed truck under a sap tree on the 4 lane bumper car parallel parking boulevard.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
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From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
This ain't happening. Got the press maxed out... bj is dead nuts on center... actually 0.025" too big. That's a fifth of an eigth of an inch!
Local shop would probably just f*** the control arm or break it. I guess I'm off to the store to see if the cheapy balljoints are smaller. F*** this car pisses me off.
Local shop would probably just f*** the control arm or break it. I guess I'm off to the store to see if the cheapy balljoints are smaller. F*** this car pisses me off.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 17,551
Likes: 26
From: El Paso Texas
Originally Posted by CentralCoaster
This ain't happening. Got the press maxed out... bj is dead nuts on center... actually 0.025" too big. That's a fifth of an eigth of an inch!
Local shop would probably just f*** the control arm or break it. I guess I'm off to the store to see if the cheapy balljoints are smaller. F*** this car pisses me off.
Local shop would probably just f*** the control arm or break it. I guess I'm off to the store to see if the cheapy balljoints are smaller. F*** this car pisses me off.
Who makes Napa's house brand? Any chance they sold you the wrong ball joint? I don't remember mine being THAT far off. I used Moog, bought them from CarQuest. It was definitely an interference fit, but .025 is a big difference.
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Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
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From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
He didnt know. But he went on about how he uses all of them on his cars.
No sht sherlock, you get parts at barely over cost because you work there.
No sht sherlock, you get parts at barely over cost because you work there.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
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From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Check the top post, i added pics... trying to identify em.
I'm done... way overdue for sleep. If that was doable with the tool, it'd have been a 2 hr job, working slow.
I'm done... way overdue for sleep. If that was doable with the tool, it'd have been a 2 hr job, working slow.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,858
Likes: 7
From: Santa Maria CA
That sucks man. My PST ones went in fine with a press. No way should it take that much force and still not go in. And I though NAPA was supposed to be good chit. I'd be pissed too. Would make me want to set something on fire. 
Last edited by 86PACER; Dec 7, 2005 at 04:50 AM.
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 65
Likes: 3
I had the same problem, replaced my ball joints 2 months ago. New ones looked just like yours and were too big. It said Acdelco in the box. I didn't take them to shop for press, because I thought it would not fit and the aluminium would just break under the pressure. Didn't have time to investigate why they were so much bigger and order new parts, so I grinded the extra material off from the joints and after that it was a piece of cake to get em fitted.
I'd say there are probably lots of "faulty" ball joints out there.
I'd say there are probably lots of "faulty" ball joints out there.
Last edited by Mr X; Dec 7, 2005 at 06:56 AM.
Pro
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 729
Likes: 4
From: Yukon OK
Done this twice now with the same issue. One set from PST and another set my friend bought, but don't know where.
Fortunately for me a Corvette buddy has a full size lathe in his garage and we took the ball joints down to .010 over. Plus this makes them perfectly round and very smooth.
I also had a problem with the C Clamp tool we borrowed from Auto Zone. The piece that was supposed to drive in the ball joint would not match up well and the joint kept going crooked. We finally machined an aluminum adapter that fit the ball joint perfectly and then everything went in just fine.
Also had to take a die grinder to the arm to make room for the cylinder piece of the C Clamp so it would sit flat and centered on the opening.
Guess thats what you get when you don't use the official GM tool and go generic.
I know everyone can't do this but I am not willing to force a part that is .030 too large into an aluminum piece. I don't have a press that strong and don't want to risk cracking the arm.
Guess everyone needs to just be aware of this issue and budget for a machine shop to insert the bottom ball joints. But measure first. Yours might fit just fine.
Fortunately for me a Corvette buddy has a full size lathe in his garage and we took the ball joints down to .010 over. Plus this makes them perfectly round and very smooth.
I also had a problem with the C Clamp tool we borrowed from Auto Zone. The piece that was supposed to drive in the ball joint would not match up well and the joint kept going crooked. We finally machined an aluminum adapter that fit the ball joint perfectly and then everything went in just fine.
Also had to take a die grinder to the arm to make room for the cylinder piece of the C Clamp so it would sit flat and centered on the opening.
Guess thats what you get when you don't use the official GM tool and go generic.
I know everyone can't do this but I am not willing to force a part that is .030 too large into an aluminum piece. I don't have a press that strong and don't want to risk cracking the arm.
Guess everyone needs to just be aware of this issue and budget for a machine shop to insert the bottom ball joints. But measure first. Yours might fit just fine.
Last edited by LaVidaLoca; Dec 7, 2005 at 09:36 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 927
Likes: 0
From: Saginaw TX
I bought Moog ball joints for upper on my 93 Dodge Dakota and one fit fine and the other was too small and just spun in the arm. This thing was in a Moog box.. Went and got one from Napa and it worked fine. Don't know what the deal is, but seems like Moog may have a quality issue. Part numbers on the boxes were the same.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,839
Likes: 22
From: San Diego, Ca
I used NAPA on my truck - Hammered them in and they never failed - the tool wasn't worth a crap - doubt that you'd want to try that on your Vette - there is a suspension shop around the block from NAPA's Convoy's warehouse and NAPA has a machine shop so you could ask them to do it. I think they quoted me $20 or so to press them on, so if the A-arms are off, you might want to fork out a few more Bucks to get it done and your Vette back together.
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 89
Likes: 1
From: ca
Some of you may find this of use. It was in HOTROD or CarCraft about 20 years ago. I hope they don't mind. At least they're getting a plug for their mags.
I finally got around to building it about four years ago. It cost me about $45 for the steel, plus the bolts and a bottle jack that I already had and can still use.
I made a few changes to it and it works great. Larger piece of steel above the jack ram; 3/4" steel instead of the aluminum on the cross bar, with the push ram attached directly to it; 3 1/2" spacing on the verticals so I can use four pins if needed. I didn't use bolts on the table. I welded it up with four, 5/8" pins and tubing spacers for more stability. I made it 5' tall instead of 6' and I can still put a car axle in it.
If anyone should want to make this, buy the pieces cut like the article says and get a couple of extra pieces for support and spacers. The ones that come with the Harbor Freight press are cast steel and will snap.
I finally got around to building it about four years ago. It cost me about $45 for the steel, plus the bolts and a bottle jack that I already had and can still use.
I made a few changes to it and it works great. Larger piece of steel above the jack ram; 3/4" steel instead of the aluminum on the cross bar, with the push ram attached directly to it; 3 1/2" spacing on the verticals so I can use four pins if needed. I didn't use bolts on the table. I welded it up with four, 5/8" pins and tubing spacers for more stability. I made it 5' tall instead of 6' and I can still put a car axle in it.
If anyone should want to make this, buy the pieces cut like the article says and get a couple of extra pieces for support and spacers. The ones that come with the Harbor Freight press are cast steel and will snap.
Last edited by RichardJ; Dec 7, 2005 at 01:12 PM.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
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From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Originally Posted by SunCr
I used NAPA on my truck - Hammered them in and they never failed - the tool wasn't worth a crap - doubt that you'd want to try that on your Vette - there is a suspension shop around the block from NAPA's Convoy's warehouse and NAPA has a machine shop so you could ask them to do it. I think they quoted me $20 or so to press them on, so if the A-arms are off, you might want to fork out a few more Bucks to get it done and your Vette back together.
I'm trying to identify, either by brand or type, which ones fit and which ones dont. Nobody seems to remember what brand they purchased.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,036
Likes: 13
From: Edmonton AB
From www.napaonline.com
Since I've taken my meds, I won't rip a new one for making me squint
to confirm that you have NAPA p/n 260-1338.
Appears the counter-person gave you the 'correct' parts, according to
the catalog.
Alternatively
** ================================== **
Moog Chassis Master Catalog (F3834 - July 99)
Page 95
A real parts place will have a vernier caliper at the counter and
will be willing to measure the OD on request.
.
Since I've taken my meds, I won't rip a new one for making me squint
to confirm that you have NAPA p/n 260-1338.
Appears the counter-person gave you the 'correct' parts, according to
the catalog.
Alternatively
** ================================== **
Moog Chassis Master Catalog (F3834 - July 99)
Page 95
Chevrolet Corvette
96-84 All
K6346 - Upper Ball Joint
K6345 - Lower Ball Joint
** ================================== **96-84 All
K6346 - Upper Ball Joint
K6345 - Lower Ball Joint
A real parts place will have a vernier caliper at the counter and
will be willing to measure the OD on request.
.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,036
Likes: 13
From: Edmonton AB
Originally Posted by CentralCoaster
... assuming these napa ones arent already moog.
warehouse back in the mid-90's.
At that time, in Canada, they stocked MOOG in MOOG packaging. If
you call and get someone on the desk with experience in the warehouse
they may be able to say whether this is still the case. Alternatively,
they could tell you whether they have the MOOG catalog, a possible
tip-off. Assuming they still use paper instead of 0x1's in your part of
the world
.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,036
Likes: 13
From: Edmonton AB
A last thought - in these parts, customers can handle parts and resellers
can return stock.
So it is not outside the realm of possibility that your parts were handled
and returned to the wrong boxes. A parts-person ought to be willing
to pull more 260-1338's to do a visual or to measure those for
comparison to what you received.
BTW - while I do not have direct knowledge of BJ fitment, from other
experience, I side with those who state that an 0.025-0.030" interference
fit is asking for trouble.
.
can return stock.
So it is not outside the realm of possibility that your parts were handled
and returned to the wrong boxes. A parts-person ought to be willing
to pull more 260-1338's to do a visual or to measure those for
comparison to what you received.
BTW - while I do not have direct knowledge of BJ fitment, from other
experience, I side with those who state that an 0.025-0.030" interference
fit is asking for trouble.
.