My crazy engine idea
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 800
Likes: 3
From: Port Orange FL
My crazy engine idea
This is for those of us that think too much. I have had this idea in my head for many years now. I have always wondered how a motor would workout if I built it with two different sets of specs.
IE have a camshaft ground where four of the cylinders were more radical than the other 4. Nothing radical different, perhaps 10 degrees more duration in 4 than the other. Install larger valves and port the heads larger on 4 of the cylinders, install larger header tubes on 4, possibly even use a tuned port and run 4 of them with big long tube runners while siameseing the intake short on the other 4. The idea of all this being to create a motor that had 4 cylinders picking up the power down low and 4 that would keep pulling strong up top. Thereby creating a very wide power curve. Of course you would have to balance everything out so it still ran smooth. I doubt I am the first person to think about this so I was wondering if anyone has ever heard of it being done or done such a thing. Thoughts on the matter?
IE have a camshaft ground where four of the cylinders were more radical than the other 4. Nothing radical different, perhaps 10 degrees more duration in 4 than the other. Install larger valves and port the heads larger on 4 of the cylinders, install larger header tubes on 4, possibly even use a tuned port and run 4 of them with big long tube runners while siameseing the intake short on the other 4. The idea of all this being to create a motor that had 4 cylinders picking up the power down low and 4 that would keep pulling strong up top. Thereby creating a very wide power curve. Of course you would have to balance everything out so it still ran smooth. I doubt I am the first person to think about this so I was wondering if anyone has ever heard of it being done or done such a thing. Thoughts on the matter?
Racer
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From: Marlboro NY
Sounds like a bad idea. It would be down in power at its sweet spots in the 2 different cam ranges compared to the identical 8 cyl. setup on either setup.
Your best best is to build the bigger better setup and offset the torque loss by either a torque converter change and gearing (auto) or gearing on the manual.
10 degrees isn't extreme, probably a couple of hundred rpm diff. so why go through all the crazy porting and matching. spend your money on a good set of heads, a good intake and a decent cam and you wont be disappointed.
Your best best is to build the bigger better setup and offset the torque loss by either a torque converter change and gearing (auto) or gearing on the manual.
10 degrees isn't extreme, probably a couple of hundred rpm diff. so why go through all the crazy porting and matching. spend your money on a good set of heads, a good intake and a decent cam and you wont be disappointed.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 914
Likes: 1
From: Redding Ca
I think someone just has to try it. You might have something that more or less defies conventional logic. Who would have thought changing the firing order/crank throws would pick up power (witness current pro-stockers) or moving the location of a blower forward on the engine would make more power? or throw in a couple of extra valves from 2 to 4, etc.
Shoot, if you look at the current heads and cams in the LS-series small blocks, they would not pass smog or make decent gas mileage in a million years on our older "standard" SBC's.
But they make oodles of "clean" power and decent manners, all due, I believe to computer controls.
Shoot, if you look at the current heads and cams in the LS-series small blocks, they would not pass smog or make decent gas mileage in a million years on our older "standard" SBC's.
But they make oodles of "clean" power and decent manners, all due, I believe to computer controls.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,345
Likes: 230
From: SCMR Rat Pack'r Charter Member..Great Bend KS
I would think your power curve would be short and steep and not too tall:
You'd have a worse low end than an all-mild engine and a worse top end than an all-wild engine.
Who knows for certain, though?? Try it and keep us informed!!
Larry
code5coupe
You'd have a worse low end than an all-mild engine and a worse top end than an all-wild engine.
Who knows for certain, though?? Try it and keep us informed!!
Larry
code5coupe
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Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 24,460
Likes: 7
From: sw Ohio
Yeah thats the biggest problem I have with import cars. Most of them are front wheel drive and they all have more horsepower than torque. For me torque is where all the fun is with burnouts and all that good stuff. I just love the classic american muscle design. 
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,088
Likes: 0
From: Poop land
I'd rather you buy those custom 4 valve heads than do this. About the same price as a S/C, but the difference is that you are all motor and about as strong. I see they make them for 1st and 2nd gen SBC motors. Damn I forgot the website already...
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
Likes: 25
From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Interesting. It doesn't involve any new technology either, should cost the same as any other buildup, except for the custom can grind.
And if it didnt work out, you could just pull the heads and do valve on the other 4 cylinders, and you haven't wasted anything except some setup time at the machine shop, a cam, and labor.
And if it didnt work out, you could just pull the heads and do valve on the other 4 cylinders, and you haven't wasted anything except some setup time at the machine shop, a cam, and labor.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta GA
if you got the spare crap sittin around go for it. if it doesnt bankrupt you, then havin a little fun couldnt hurt. if it doesnt work, then you know not to try it again, if it does somehow work, then you may be onto something big if you can fine-tune it. much like the mazda rotary (although hopelessly torqueless) which can produce great power for being like a 1.3L...new ideas, even if they fail, are what lead to innovation. i say go for it and if it works dont tell anyone 
CJ
CJ
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,562
Likes: 106
From: Austin Texas
Originally Posted by Gold1986Vette420
Sounds like a bad idea. It would be down in power at its sweet spots in the 2 different cam ranges compared to the identical 8 cyl. setup on either setup.
Your best best is to build the bigger better setup and offset the torque loss by either a torque converter change and gearing (auto) or gearing on the manual.
10 degrees isn't extreme, probably a couple of hundred rpm diff. so why go through all the crazy porting and matching. spend your money on a good set of heads, a good intake and a decent cam and you wont be disappointed.
Your best best is to build the bigger better setup and offset the torque loss by either a torque converter change and gearing (auto) or gearing on the manual.
10 degrees isn't extreme, probably a couple of hundred rpm diff. so why go through all the crazy porting and matching. spend your money on a good set of heads, a good intake and a decent cam and you wont be disappointed.
Although, why do you think you'd have a loss of torque???
My 355 with larger valves, CNC-ported heads, big-tubes and headers cranks out nearly 500 lb/ft...
Check the build on my homepage...
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,062
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Although, why do you think you'd have a loss of torque???
You increased the stroke on the wilde side by 1/2"
Its not a bad idea though, thats how better designs are born. Personally I like the 4 valve approach. In '90, GM was already aware that 500 chp was easy to get out of the LT5 but then the LS1 engine would never sell. Guys are getting close to those #'s all day long on those motors with stock stroke, cams and bottom end, simply do a thorough porting from the TB to the heads, some LT's and your there.
Imagine what another 15 years of technology would have done. Maybe a DOHC 6.0 with LS type ports?
custom 4 valve heads than do this. About the same price as a S/C, but the difference is that you are all motor and about as strong. I see they make them for 1st and 2nd gen SBC motors. Damn I forgot the website already...
http://www.valleyhead.com/main.html
THese heads have been around forever....Ive stopped in to ARAO before, thats one big hunk of aluminum. THey are 4valve heads, but not DOHC: Still make big power though-
Last edited by cv67; Mar 10, 2006 at 06:00 PM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 800
Likes: 3
From: Port Orange FL
My crazy engine idea
I appreciate the desire to help me out but you guys that are saying build it the conventional way are missing the point of my post. Its an experiment and the whole idea is really just a discussion. I already know it will work the way its always been done. I honestly will probably never get this idea done as I have probably built 5 or so motors the conventional way since I first thought of this.
I just wanted to know if I really am
and was looking for discussion on the idea. I was also wondering if anyone else out there is also and may have tried it.
Roy
I just wanted to know if I really am
and was looking for discussion on the idea. I was also wondering if anyone else out there is also and may have tried it.Roy
Racer
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 475
Likes: 21
From: CLAREMONT Ca
Engine
If you have that much time, I could use someone to rebuild my engine.
Originally Posted by Fastmax32168
This is for those of us that think too much. I have had this idea in my head for many years now. I have always wondered how a motor would workout if I built it with two different sets of specs.
IE have a camshaft ground where four of the cylinders were more radical than the other 4. Nothing radical different, perhaps 10 degrees more duration in 4 than the other. Install larger valves and port the heads larger on 4 of the cylinders, install larger header tubes on 4, possibly even use a tuned port and run 4 of them with big long tube runners while siameseing the intake short on the other 4. The idea of all this being to create a motor that had 4 cylinders picking up the power down low and 4 that would keep pulling strong up top. Thereby creating a very wide power curve. Of course you would have to balance everything out so it still ran smooth. I doubt I am the first person to think about this so I was wondering if anyone has ever heard of it being done or done such a thing. Thoughts on the matter?
IE have a camshaft ground where four of the cylinders were more radical than the other 4. Nothing radical different, perhaps 10 degrees more duration in 4 than the other. Install larger valves and port the heads larger on 4 of the cylinders, install larger header tubes on 4, possibly even use a tuned port and run 4 of them with big long tube runners while siameseing the intake short on the other 4. The idea of all this being to create a motor that had 4 cylinders picking up the power down low and 4 that would keep pulling strong up top. Thereby creating a very wide power curve. Of course you would have to balance everything out so it still ran smooth. I doubt I am the first person to think about this so I was wondering if anyone has ever heard of it being done or done such a thing. Thoughts on the matter?
Racer
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From: Marlboro NY
[QUOTE=cuisinartvette]One bank could make 300 lbs of torque at 2000 rpm, but say the other (wild) bank made 200 torque at 2000 rpm. It wouild seem youd have the power of smaller engine. When it "came up on the cam", yoiud onl;y have 4 cyl's making real power.....Unless
QUOTE]
Although
If you want good clean power though the rpm range build a LSx type of motor. The head design is superior and makes more power over a broader range, is a lighter and more efficient package, and has been known to make 500+rwhp on a stock bottom end 346 with just heads, cam, intake, and exhaust.
QUOTE]
Although
If you want good clean power though the rpm range build a LSx type of motor. The head design is superior and makes more power over a broader range, is a lighter and more efficient package, and has been known to make 500+rwhp on a stock bottom end 346 with just heads, cam, intake, and exhaust.