In the old days, guys would dremel out the slot in the factory rocker arm. This would allow more lift without spending any money. I don't nescessarily recommend this, but goes to show that money is not always needed to get the job done.

 

I do not want to disparage the comments made in favor of roller rocker in this thread, as I agree with them, however only when other HP mods are included.

If you are driving below 6500 to 7000 RPM, the stamped steel ones hold up fine.

For a street driven car that you are not going to drive or race differently from the way you drove it before the swap, I think roller rockers are a waste of money.

For most people with street driven cars, the fact that they built some more HP into their engine does not translate into different driving habits. If you are giong to drive the car the same as before, the stamped steel ones that did the job for 20 years, should do the job for the next 20 years if you buy new 1.6 stamped steel ones.

I am not talking about a car that you baby all the time either, I mean one that is pushed hard on occasion. People have been doing this in their Vettes forever, with the stock stamped steel rockers. Many have proven that the stock rocker can be reved beyond the rev limiter setting.

The power difference from 1.6 rockers will not result in that great a gain in RPM so the stamped steel will work fine. The difference in effort, to move a 1.5 vs 1.6 rocker is about 6% so the heat generated to the oil through friction is not going to be that much. Assuming that your radiator can dissapate 10% more heat than the computer is set to maintain, your engine should not run any hotter than before.

I need not comment on the price difference.

Weather you go to roller rockers or not depends on your future plans for your engine.

Just my opinion on the subject

 

One of the biggest reasons to go with after market (roller or roller tip) is accuracy. The factory stamped rockers can and do vary greatly from one rocker to the next. They may say 1.5:1 but can vary from 1.45:1 to 1.54:1 (not specifically but you get the idea). After market rockers (good ones) are mfged to tighter tolerances, for example they sell 1:52:1 rockers, they are all 1.52:1. This allows for a consistant valve train and more even power production from one cylinder to the next.

 

alright thanks for the help guys but one more thing...whats the average cost of a cam install if i were to get the hot cam kit, id like to know so i dont get raped

 

i guess i need to spend more time explaining myself. i made the assumption that the car in question was virtually stock valvetrain wise. if thats the case, then roller tip rockers in and of themselves are a waste of money. if you do not change the ratio its not worth the effort. once you start changing the lift and ramp rates of the cam then of course upgraded rockers are a very good idea. also roller tip rockers are nothing special either. its like using Bosch +4 spark plugs. great spark plug, but please don't talk about any power advantage you got from installing them. its just not worth it. this is when dealing with a stock non agressive cam. again once you start changing the cam you will need a valvetrain that is up to the task. the biggest place a roller needs to be on a rocker is the trunion, not the tip. that was the point i was trying to make. however i also did not want the poster to think he could go out and drop $200-$300 on a set of Comp Rs thinking that was a wise move. hope that better explains it. different engines require different builds. bigger or more advanced technically is not always needed or good.

 

anybody?

 

about 13-18 hrs labor time. typical hrly rate for "performance" work is $70-$80.

 

There are lots of different opinions concerning roller rockers. This is a quote from John Lingenfelters book; "Perhaps the most misunderstood point is that the roller tip actually rolls across the valve stem tip. This is not true. Even though the roller will spin easily between your fingers, once loaded against valve spring pressure the roller merely slides across the valve stem."

 

WOW modular ford cams can be installed for under $500 ...welcome to pushrod power

 

Even with a stock cam and rocker ratio there are advantages to a roller rocker. There is a LOT more heat generated by a stamped ball mount and sliding tip than a roller. This reduction in heat helps the oil cool the head better when it isn't nearly fryed by a schorching rocker arm. Believe it or not, most of the heat in your valve covers is not from combustion temperature, It's heat dissipated from the valve train; springs, rockers and a little bit from pushrod flex. The stamped rockers get a lot hotter from flexing than you think. A roller will run 60* or more cooler than a stamped ball socket rocker. Valve stem deflection is also reduced and that takes wear and more temperature off the valve guides too. The greater up front cost of rollers pays off in the long run with a longer living engine. They may be a little more noisy but aluminum or plastic valve covers and car interiors today are so quiet today, you probably wouldn't even notice.

 

I do not agree. The ECM determines the temp that the engine will run and the way it is set at the factory is where it will run unless you reprogram the chip.
The factory cooling system has no problem coping with any extra heat generated by the stamped steel rockers by cooling the oil.
Stamped rockers have been known to last for hundreds of thousands of miles with no negative impact on heat breaking down the oil. If the engine runs within the designed temp no harm will come to it.
If you are going to use the engine pretty much as you did before, roller rockers are a waste of money.

 

I'm with Klondike.
ECM controls coolant temps. Oiling advantages (temperature and amount) are the big reason for going with rollers, at least according to Smokey Yunick in his famous book.
According to him, roller fulcrum rockers (the roller in the tip does very little) require far less oil than the pivot ***** found in stamped steel. This allows the engine builder to reduce the amount of oil flowing up through the pushrods. According to Smokey, this is a good thing, although I can't at this moment remember why.

I'm also with those of you who feel rollers aren't necessary on the majority of street engines. Not necessary, but oh-so-cool.

Larry
code5coupe

 

while we are talking about it can anyone tell me the difference between 3/8s and the other size pushrods

 

If you have a big lift, high rpm cam, which requires very stiff valve springs, a larger diameter pushrod will be stiffer and be not so prone to bending.

Larry
code5coupe

 

should you go up when you swap the RRs?

 

In pushrod size? Just changing rockers doesn't require increasing pushrod diameter.

Larry
code5coupe

 

If you want a bullet proof top end then go with Roller rockers, 7/16 rocker studs, 7/16 pushrods, 7/16 guide plates, beehive valve springs, lighter valves, titinium spring caps and titanium keepers.
Not cheap but if all you want to do is tell people you have a bulletproof top end then it's your money.

However if you did ALL of the above, and even with 1.7 rockers, you would be spending hundreds of dollars for a horspower gain that you would not be able to feel in the SOP.

I have never seen ANY dyno data that shows that just a change to roller rockers of the same ratio will give any measurable HP gains or reduction in overall engine operating temp.

On an engine without a built bottom end you will never get the chance to test all these expensive parts. Even on a stock engine high RPM will usually cause damage to the bottom end before the stamped steel rockers will give out.

It is cute to quote Smokey because we all know he is the genius, however taking his recommendations out of context and applying them in situations he never intended does nobody any good.

I repeat what I said before, ALL of the above ( with the exception of the 1.7 rockers ratio) is a big waste of money on a street engine that seldom sees the other side of 7000 RPM where the stamped steel ones will work just fine

 

Amen brutha. Even though I agree 100%, I still buy and use the damn things.