My newly swapped ZF6 bit the dust tonite
08-16-2001, 12:34 AM
#1
Melting Slicks
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My newly swapped ZF6 bit the dust tonite
What's this I hear about a T56 for C4s? I swapped my 4+3 out for a ZF6 out of a '95 after the 4 speed side bit the dust. Then tonight at the dragstrip my ZF6 starts acting up and doesn't want to shift into third very easily and made some nasty gear noises. So get on the highway going home I can't shift into to 6th! So I try fifth and it goes in but makes more gear munchy sounds and forces itself out of gear.
I just finished this 2500 dollar swap about a month ago! My dad is getting tired or funding this, actually we can't afford it right now because we just moved and haven't sold our old house yet. I've been considering a T56 swap or a have white racing rebuilding the ZF, maybe with some extra beef. I want a worry free transmission so I can finally concentrate on building a motor. Deffinately gettin a short shifter, on whatever I'll end up with as well.
Please help!
On a more positive note, I did run my new best time tonite of 14.5 at 96mph, with a 2.264 60'.
_______
[Modified by korvetkeith, 10:36 PM 8/15/2001]
I just finished this 2500 dollar swap about a month ago! My dad is getting tired or funding this, actually we can't afford it right now because we just moved and haven't sold our old house yet. I've been considering a T56 swap or a have white racing rebuilding the ZF, maybe with some extra beef. I want a worry free transmission so I can finally concentrate on building a motor. Deffinately gettin a short shifter, on whatever I'll end up with as well.
Please help!
On a more positive note, I did run my new best time tonite of 14.5 at 96mph, with a 2.264 60'.
_______
[Modified by korvetkeith, 10:36 PM 8/15/2001]
08-16-2001, 12:58 AM
#2
Safety Car
Re: My newly swapped ZF6 bit the dust tonite (korvetkeith)
You must have gotten a ZF already beat on and about to fail. From what I've read, the ZF is a stronger transmission than an F-body T56. IMHO, you'll be better off rebuilding the ZF6. You go to a T56 and there's going to be some fabrication involved and more money.
08-16-2001, 01:23 AM
#3
Le Mans Master
Re: My newly swapped ZF6 bit the dust tonite (korvetkeith)
The T56 will allow you to speed shift over the ZF which does not like to be speed shifted. It WILL cause premature failure in the synchros. Try someplace like http://www.ZFDoc.com to rebuild it stronger so you can beef up the motor. To reitterate, I have never heard of anyone breaking one unless they speed shift the transmission, and I know of a couple.
08-16-2001, 02:17 AM
#4
Melting Slicks
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Re: My newly swapped ZF6 bit the dust tonite (Vette92)
Are you telling me I can't powershift or speedshift? My usual routine is powershift 1-2 then speed shift 2-3 cuz its trickier. I was hopin with the short shifter I could power shift on the 2-3s and 4-5s as well.
08-16-2001, 04:26 AM
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Re: My newly swapped ZF6 bit the dust tonite (Vette92)
Bummer. :(
How many miles did the ZF6 have on it? $2500 sounds like a smokin' deal for a conversion to such an expensive transmission.
How many miles did the ZF6 have on it? $2500 sounds like a smokin' deal for a conversion to such an expensive transmission.
08-16-2001, 08:07 AM
#6
Le Mans Master
Re: My newly swapped ZF6 bit the dust tonite (NoWorries)
I had my trans rebuilt by Bill. I am very pleased. I had the second gear syncro go out on my trany. Check his site out at http://www.zfdoc.com
Also Bill has an article on the web page how you shouldn't power shift the ZF6.
Ed
Also Bill has an article on the web page how you shouldn't power shift the ZF6.
Ed
08-16-2001, 11:01 AM
#7
Safety Car
Re: My newly swapped ZF6 bit the dust tonite (fastzr1)
I always powershift mine, just dont miss and make sure your hydraulic system is in good working order, if it is failing your trans wont last long under severe duty.
08-16-2001, 12:08 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
Re: My newly swapped ZF6 bit the dust tonite (MVR 155)
I speed shift, but value my tranmission too much to powershift. You can probably get it built up to sustain powershifting, but you would have to call them to find out.
Chris
Chris
08-16-2001, 12:15 PM
#9
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Re: My newly swapped ZF6 bit the dust tonite (Vette92)
Someone please give me your definations of Powershifting and speedshifting. Before I add to this post I want to make sure we're all on the same page.
08-16-2001, 12:23 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
Re: My newly swapped ZF6 bit the dust tonite (Vette92)
Powershifting is when you don't take your foot off the gas (WOT) when shifting.
Here is a cut and paste of information from ZFDoc.com about powershifting the ZF...
[Modified by Vette92, 10:24 AM 8/16/2001]
Here is a cut and paste of information from ZFDoc.com about powershifting the ZF...
PREPARE FOR POWERSHIFTING (by Bill Boudreau)
Four things to know when powershifting your ZF S6-40 6-speed :
1) The clutch hydraulic system is at peak operating condition.
2) Hitting the mark - time line sequence of a clutch cycle.
3) The status of your transmission oil.
4) The clutch hydraulic system is at peak operating condition.
TRANSMISSION OIL (status) - Vascular flow of oil through the porous
Phosphorus-bronze (Pb) material of each synchronizer is essential for effective
British Thermal Unit (BTU) heat exchange occurrence. Frequent transmission oil
changes will ensure lower Pb particle levels. The ZF S6-40 6-speed transmission
is lubricated by, oddly enough, engine oil. Manufacturer recommendations specify
the use of GM P/N 1052931 (5w-30) or BMW P/N 07510009420 (10w-60) oil.
Approximate oil capacity of the Z6-40 is 2.2 qts.
FYI - the BMW 10w-60 oil is fully-synthetic and is used in the BMW M5 engine.
CLUTCH HYDRAULIC SYSTEM (status) - Weather barrier isolation between
the clutch hydraulic fluid and the surrounding atmosphere is essential for
preventing moisture from being absorbed by the hydroscopic fluid. The fluid
reservoir features a vented twist-off cap enclosing the drop-in atmospheric
moisture barrier. The "upside-down top-hat shaped" barrier acts as an
atmospheric pressure equalization member responsible for preventing
the occurrence of gravity induced leakage of fluid from the system.
The GM clutch hydraulic fluid is a DOT 3 type with friction modifiers added.
NOTE: In an emergency situation DOT 3 brake fluid can be used as a substitute
until system repairs can be made.
Road TRIP Survival TIP: You can avoid being stranded by a sudden slow leak in
the clutch hydraulic system by using a piece of rubber tubing and a 10mm wrench.
The wrench is for moving the ECM out of the way and the tube is for transferring
a small portion of brake fluid over to the clutch fluid reservoir. This temporary
work-around could save you from major towing or transmission-repair bills.
POWERSHIFT TECHNIQUE (hitting the mark) -
Optimize each shift-segment window-of-opportunity by full-cycling the
clutch pedal completely to the floor.
Utilize the firewall mat for a springboard to literally
bounce the clutch pedal back off of.
The clutch pedal to firewall mat strikepoint can easily be protected
by laying down a few strips of 2" wide high quality electric tape.
How to practice your Shift Reaction Timing:
Out of vehicle -
While standing and balancing on your right leg, raise your left leg 7" up off the floor.
Simultaneously tap the floor with the bottom of your shoe tip and snap your right hand
fingers (ring/thumb) so as to make one combined noise between the two.
Match'em 30 times in a row, and you are dialed in.
In vehicle -
Position your seat close enough to the pedals so that depressing the clutch pedal
to the floor is achieved with between 50/50 to 60/40 percent combination of knee/ankle
joint deflection. Shift reaction time seems to tighten up (real nice) when approaching
the 50/50 percent end. ...Just like a bassist's drum in a rock-n-roll band.
Shift lever movement should initiate to the next gear at the same time you expect
to hear the "thunk" of the clutch pedal tapping the mat.
Warning - Shallow clutching is deadly to these transmissions when powershifting.
Four things to know when powershifting your ZF S6-40 6-speed :
1) The clutch hydraulic system is at peak operating condition.
2) Hitting the mark - time line sequence of a clutch cycle.
3) The status of your transmission oil.
4) The clutch hydraulic system is at peak operating condition.
TRANSMISSION OIL (status) - Vascular flow of oil through the porous
Phosphorus-bronze (Pb) material of each synchronizer is essential for effective
British Thermal Unit (BTU) heat exchange occurrence. Frequent transmission oil
changes will ensure lower Pb particle levels. The ZF S6-40 6-speed transmission
is lubricated by, oddly enough, engine oil. Manufacturer recommendations specify
the use of GM P/N 1052931 (5w-30) or BMW P/N 07510009420 (10w-60) oil.
Approximate oil capacity of the Z6-40 is 2.2 qts.
FYI - the BMW 10w-60 oil is fully-synthetic and is used in the BMW M5 engine.
CLUTCH HYDRAULIC SYSTEM (status) - Weather barrier isolation between
the clutch hydraulic fluid and the surrounding atmosphere is essential for
preventing moisture from being absorbed by the hydroscopic fluid. The fluid
reservoir features a vented twist-off cap enclosing the drop-in atmospheric
moisture barrier. The "upside-down top-hat shaped" barrier acts as an
atmospheric pressure equalization member responsible for preventing
the occurrence of gravity induced leakage of fluid from the system.
The GM clutch hydraulic fluid is a DOT 3 type with friction modifiers added.
NOTE: In an emergency situation DOT 3 brake fluid can be used as a substitute
until system repairs can be made.
Road TRIP Survival TIP: You can avoid being stranded by a sudden slow leak in
the clutch hydraulic system by using a piece of rubber tubing and a 10mm wrench.
The wrench is for moving the ECM out of the way and the tube is for transferring
a small portion of brake fluid over to the clutch fluid reservoir. This temporary
work-around could save you from major towing or transmission-repair bills.
POWERSHIFT TECHNIQUE (hitting the mark) -
Optimize each shift-segment window-of-opportunity by full-cycling the
clutch pedal completely to the floor.
Utilize the firewall mat for a springboard to literally
bounce the clutch pedal back off of.
The clutch pedal to firewall mat strikepoint can easily be protected
by laying down a few strips of 2" wide high quality electric tape.
How to practice your Shift Reaction Timing:
Out of vehicle -
While standing and balancing on your right leg, raise your left leg 7" up off the floor.
Simultaneously tap the floor with the bottom of your shoe tip and snap your right hand
fingers (ring/thumb) so as to make one combined noise between the two.
Match'em 30 times in a row, and you are dialed in.
In vehicle -
Position your seat close enough to the pedals so that depressing the clutch pedal
to the floor is achieved with between 50/50 to 60/40 percent combination of knee/ankle
joint deflection. Shift reaction time seems to tighten up (real nice) when approaching
the 50/50 percent end. ...Just like a bassist's drum in a rock-n-roll band.
Shift lever movement should initiate to the next gear at the same time you expect
to hear the "thunk" of the clutch pedal tapping the mat.
Warning - Shallow clutching is deadly to these transmissions when powershifting.
[Modified by Vette92, 10:24 AM 8/16/2001]
08-16-2001, 12:24 PM
#11
Team Owner
Re: My newly swapped ZF6 bit the dust tonite (Thumper)
Speedshift I always thought to be shifting at WOT. I do this to mine on the 1-2 and 3-4. I missed the 2-3 once and killed the syncro. Then an expensive rebuild.
The Hurst shifter is awesome on the ZF. I installed one a couple months back, and shifts are much crisper.
I also owned a T56 Z28. The trans speedshifts easier especially with a Pro-M or B&M shifter, and they are much cheaper to rebuild. As for strength I know a few local f-bodies running low 11s high 10 without a problem with a good clutch.
[Modified by 93Polo, 10:26 AM 8/16/2001]
The Hurst shifter is awesome on the ZF. I installed one a couple months back, and shifts are much crisper.
I also owned a T56 Z28. The trans speedshifts easier especially with a Pro-M or B&M shifter, and they are much cheaper to rebuild. As for strength I know a few local f-bodies running low 11s high 10 without a problem with a good clutch.
[Modified by 93Polo, 10:26 AM 8/16/2001]
08-17-2001, 01:21 AM
#14
Melting Slicks
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Re: My newly swapped ZF6 bit the dust tonite (bogus)
I don't understand the part about the DOT3 fluid. Is it saying you should use the GM kind only? The tranny has fresh oil in it, but that little rubber top hat thing got lost when someone else ( :mad ) was helping me adjust the clutch. Man sometimes workin with other people bugs, cuz everythings gotta be my way ya know.
08-17-2001, 01:33 AM
#15
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Re: My newly swapped ZF6 bit the dust tonite (korvetkeith)
I don't remember how many miles were on the tranny but I wanna say it was fairly low as it was out of a '95. Now that I think about it I probly spent about 3000, but I did get a good deal on most of the parts cuz the guy selling me the tranny was parting out a car and said I could have whatever related parts I needed. Then the guy delivers all of it himself, real nice guy, forgot his name on here however.
08-17-2001, 12:57 PM
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Re: My newly swapped ZF6 bit the dust tonite (korvetkeith)
If the car was in a bad enough accident, the internals could have been messed up. I knew someone that had to replace the diff in an Alfa after the front end was damaged. The shock transfered down the driveshaft and shattered the gears! :eek:
08-17-2001, 02:36 PM
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Re: My newly swapped ZF6 bit the dust tonite (korvetkeith)
JUST HOW DO YOU ADJUST THE CLUTCH ON THAT TRANS. MY PEDAL IS TOO HIGH, THINK IT JUST MIGHT BE SLIPPING WHEN SPEED SHIFTING. ASKED THAT QUESTION BEFORE BUT NOBODY CAME BACK WITH AN ANWSER, DOES ANYBODY KNOW? CAN IT BE ADJUSTED DUE TO BEING HYDRAULIC?
08-17-2001, 08:39 PM
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Re: My newly swapped ZF6 bit the dust tonite (TOEMAN)
JUST HOW DO YOU ADJUST THE CLUTCH ON THAT TRANS. MY PEDAL IS TOO HIGH, THINK IT JUST MIGHT BE SLIPPING WHEN SPEED SHIFTING. ASKED THAT QUESTION BEFORE BUT NOBODY CAME BACK WITH AN ANWSER, DOES ANYBODY KNOW? CAN IT BE ADJUSTED DUE TO BEING HYDRAULIC?
