427 BBC Conversion FINALLY Started!!!
03-29-2006, 06:04 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
427 BBC Conversion FINALLY Started!!!
EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
i blew out my webspace and thats why the photos wont load. for all of the pertinent photos, download this complete .zip file of everything i have...should be named as to what its showing. - http://mysite.verizon.net/fubar569/carpics.zip
--------------------------------------------------
Day 1 is over. bastard radiator shroud and fan...i hate you all. not to mention the fittings on the radiator for the transmission. god i hate those fittings.
anyway the front of the car is practically naked. Day 2 will involve stripping down the 350 and full prep for removal. the motor is for sale. see my thread in C3 parts for sale/wanted for details. i'm asking 500 for it. trans is for sale for 250 also! please help put cash in my pockets because i really need to get this prject rolling. both are a good deal...
but all in all it's great to finally turn some wrenchs on this project and get going again...i hope to have it installed here sometime soon..job and vacation...and also *ahem* women permitting...damn those women...
teaser pic:
i blew out my webspace and thats why the photos wont load. for all of the pertinent photos, download this complete .zip file of everything i have...should be named as to what its showing. - http://mysite.verizon.net/fubar569/carpics.zip
--------------------------------------------------
Day 1 is over. bastard radiator shroud and fan...i hate you all. not to mention the fittings on the radiator for the transmission. god i hate those fittings.
anyway the front of the car is practically naked. Day 2 will involve stripping down the 350 and full prep for removal. the motor is for sale. see my thread in C3 parts for sale/wanted for details. i'm asking 500 for it. trans is for sale for 250 also! please help put cash in my pockets because i really need to get this prject rolling. both are a good deal...
but all in all it's great to finally turn some wrenchs on this project and get going again...i hope to have it installed here sometime soon..job and vacation...and also *ahem* women permitting...damn those women...
teaser pic:
Last edited by Fubar569; 05-02-2007 at 12:32 AM.
03-29-2006, 06:14 PM
#3
Race Director
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That is not going to make changing the plugs any better.
It has been done before, but i bet that is going to be a tight fit.
Like Zix said keep us posted
It has been done before, but i bet that is going to be a tight fit.
Like Zix said keep us posted
03-29-2006, 06:48 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
change plugs? bah...no worries...i'll just hire a japanese midget with really tiny hands...it'll be worth it
after i yank the motor & trans, i am going to replace all front bushings & such, and notch the crossmember and move the steering rack forward. this should give me any additional clearance i need. at the time i plan on running with no AC, so those lines will be gone...and the HVAC box will be re-worked to allow valve cover clearence. sanderson block hugger headers will fit with no issues...
it's all been planned out well in advance, i just finally decided to green light it since it was over 50 degrees here today...finally got a chance to work!
after i yank the motor & trans, i am going to replace all front bushings & such, and notch the crossmember and move the steering rack forward. this should give me any additional clearance i need. at the time i plan on running with no AC, so those lines will be gone...and the HVAC box will be re-worked to allow valve cover clearence. sanderson block hugger headers will fit with no issues...
it's all been planned out well in advance, i just finally decided to green light it since it was over 50 degrees here today...finally got a chance to work!
03-29-2006, 08:58 PM
#5
Le Mans Master
Tell us about the engine! Why not go with a big small block, like the one of those Shafiroff 472's, wouldn't they have smaller outside deminsions? (besides the $)
03-29-2006, 09:05 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by 95wht6spd
Tell us about the engine! Why not go with a big small block, like the one of those Shafiroff 472's, wouldn't they have smaller outside deminsions? (besides the $)
With big-cube smallblocks these days, you really just have to WANT to swap in a BBC (for bragging and having a project). A big cube SBC is likely cheaper when you look at the fab time and specialty headers, etc.
03-29-2006, 11:07 PM
#7
Drifting
I wonder what ever happend to "Hoover"...? He was swapping out his LT1 with a Big Block. If I remember correct he was going with a solid axle too. He was looking for 9's on motor and 8's on juice.
Good luck with your swap Fubar
Good luck with your swap Fubar
I thought you would have finished by now
03-29-2006, 11:39 PM
#9
Race Director
That sounds great! Hope it works out great for you...btw some many years back in a Vette magazine,this guy had a BB in his C4...car ended up having cracked the windshield twice due to the insane amount of torque the BB engine had on the chassis.
He ended up reverting back to a smaller engine.Hope that wont happen to you!
He ended up reverting back to a smaller engine.Hope that wont happen to you!
03-30-2006, 12:09 AM
#10
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
i would normally have it done by now, but im lazy...a fat lazy italian...lol
big cube small blocks don't intrest me. i like big cube big blocks. this will start 427...likely grow to 496...then to 632 or larger...no replacement for displacement and no small block will ever touch a properly setup and built big block. end of story... some routes may be easier to take then others, but this is the one i chose, and i like it...and like i tell all my friends...don't see too many small block rail cars running 6's or deeper do ya? nope...why? takes a big motor to do that job...something a SBC could never come close to...
there's no special headers involved unless you WANT long tubes. sanderson block huggers have already been verified by TONYDEE64? to be a direct drop in...no clearence issues...me? im looking to get it in and running...long tubes will come later...though i heard some C3 BBC Long Tubes will fit without issue...
the fabbing is a non issue. going carb is simple to do in an early C4, and the only real mods are notching the crossmember. if you run a single groove pulley setup you don't even need to move the rack at all.
chassis stiffening? you can damn well bet if there's the ability to cross brace that frame that won't interfere with anythingit will be done...i have access to alot of steel stock so i see some custom things being done in this respect. hoping for no cracked windshields, no broken parts...well except for the stock dainty 36...buwahaha
engine details are as close to this as i can get:
427cid BBC Conversion. This motor will feature 12.5:1 compression, ported GM "hi perf" closed chamber rectangular port heads with 2.19/1.88 valves, full roller rockers, solid lifters, L-88 cam, hardened pushrods, Heavily ported Weiand Team G intake, Mighty Demon 850cfm General Competiton Carb, Sanderson Headers, Full MSD Ignition (billet distributor, 6AL box, blaster 2 coil), NX Plate Kit (jetted for 100-200hp), Mad Dog HD 700R4 with Stage 3 full race shift kit & 3,000rpm anti-balloon stall & external trans cooler, and a few parts i may or may not be forgetting. Tires will be Sumitomo HTRZ+ in 275's out front and BFG Drags in 315's out back on silver finish ZR-1 Rims
and that's about it i think....
big cube small blocks don't intrest me. i like big cube big blocks. this will start 427...likely grow to 496...then to 632 or larger...no replacement for displacement and no small block will ever touch a properly setup and built big block. end of story... some routes may be easier to take then others, but this is the one i chose, and i like it...and like i tell all my friends...don't see too many small block rail cars running 6's or deeper do ya? nope...why? takes a big motor to do that job...something a SBC could never come close to...
there's no special headers involved unless you WANT long tubes. sanderson block huggers have already been verified by TONYDEE64? to be a direct drop in...no clearence issues...me? im looking to get it in and running...long tubes will come later...though i heard some C3 BBC Long Tubes will fit without issue...
the fabbing is a non issue. going carb is simple to do in an early C4, and the only real mods are notching the crossmember. if you run a single groove pulley setup you don't even need to move the rack at all.
chassis stiffening? you can damn well bet if there's the ability to cross brace that frame that won't interfere with anythingit will be done...i have access to alot of steel stock so i see some custom things being done in this respect. hoping for no cracked windshields, no broken parts...well except for the stock dainty 36...buwahaha
engine details are as close to this as i can get:
427cid BBC Conversion. This motor will feature 12.5:1 compression, ported GM "hi perf" closed chamber rectangular port heads with 2.19/1.88 valves, full roller rockers, solid lifters, L-88 cam, hardened pushrods, Heavily ported Weiand Team G intake, Mighty Demon 850cfm General Competiton Carb, Sanderson Headers, Full MSD Ignition (billet distributor, 6AL box, blaster 2 coil), NX Plate Kit (jetted for 100-200hp), Mad Dog HD 700R4 with Stage 3 full race shift kit & 3,000rpm anti-balloon stall & external trans cooler, and a few parts i may or may not be forgetting. Tires will be Sumitomo HTRZ+ in 275's out front and BFG Drags in 315's out back on silver finish ZR-1 Rims
and that's about it i think....
Last edited by Fubar569; 03-30-2006 at 12:14 AM.
03-30-2006, 10:08 AM
#11
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Great choice on valves and heads, the r-ports should give you the right runner flow for what your building, and a very good starting point on your cfm for the carb, i have gone up to 1050 with a combo like this, however it wasn't a street car.
03-30-2006, 12:07 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
the 850 should be all it needs right now. i actually arrived at that estimate based on estimated horsepower, RPM, & such based on a few free calculators on the internet. they are supprisingly really close.
i say the intake is heavily ported, because that's how much i had to take out to match the heads...alot...a full 1/4" in at least one spot. someone who knew what they were doing worked these heads over, because on my dad's chevelle they made retarded power. i can't really wait to get the motor sunk in and fired up for the first time. I also listed a plate kit because i have everything to convert my single nozzle fogger over to it but since i have now sold that kit...the team G has integrated bosses for nozzles so i might as well go direct port and get it over with.
my eventual horsepower goal with this build on the bottle? 800hp on the juice...eventually, i hope to break 1,000hp in any form (nitrous, super, turbo)...
i say the intake is heavily ported, because that's how much i had to take out to match the heads...alot...a full 1/4" in at least one spot. someone who knew what they were doing worked these heads over, because on my dad's chevelle they made retarded power. i can't really wait to get the motor sunk in and fired up for the first time. I also listed a plate kit because i have everything to convert my single nozzle fogger over to it but since i have now sold that kit...the team G has integrated bosses for nozzles so i might as well go direct port and get it over with.
my eventual horsepower goal with this build on the bottle? 800hp on the juice...eventually, i hope to break 1,000hp in any form (nitrous, super, turbo)...
03-30-2006, 03:15 PM
#13
Former Vendor
I am with the other guys on the larger SBC.......Although this is a neat project I must say and I have to give you props for taking on a project of this caliber.
However with todays available components for SBC that would drop right in, your BB will be much more work and labor and $$ intensive than a real good sbc.
For the same amount of money- you could have done a sbc, with -12 heads (since your into fabricating and does a set of custom headers), got a raised hood, and made close to 800hp conservativly.
A BB adds about 250-300 unneeded pounds to the front that ruins the already well balanced platform that most guys really strive to achieve.
Anything larger at 500+ inches in one of these cars, your going to tear it apart. 632CI - NO WAY will these cars take that without MAJOR chassis work. A motor like that requires a tube chassis built car and your looking at about 18k for that from a good builder like NEVERLIFT.
Not trying to be a wet blanket, just pointing out some things you should consider before getting neck deep into something you wish you wouldn't have.
Good luck and keep us posted!
However with todays available components for SBC that would drop right in, your BB will be much more work and labor and $$ intensive than a real good sbc.
For the same amount of money- you could have done a sbc, with -12 heads (since your into fabricating and does a set of custom headers), got a raised hood, and made close to 800hp conservativly.
A BB adds about 250-300 unneeded pounds to the front that ruins the already well balanced platform that most guys really strive to achieve.
Anything larger at 500+ inches in one of these cars, your going to tear it apart. 632CI - NO WAY will these cars take that without MAJOR chassis work. A motor like that requires a tube chassis built car and your looking at about 18k for that from a good builder like NEVERLIFT.
Not trying to be a wet blanket, just pointing out some things you should consider before getting neck deep into something you wish you wouldn't have.
Good luck and keep us posted!
03-30-2006, 05:47 PM
#14
Drifting
I really envy you, I tossed the 350 in my 1978 Z28 and that was a fantastic ride afterwards, I loved that car, took it to Europe and got it up to 175 on the autopistas in Spain. I also put 256 gears in it. Had a 200hp Nitrous set up on it too. Had a Holley 850 on it and it was perfect, great throttle response and no lack of top end for the mild build on the motor. It was hard to keep clutches, and bearings in the tranny and rear end alive.
I had long tubes on it and it was way easier to change the plugs on the BB because the plugs are between the exhaust ports instead of under them.
As far as weight, I took out the A/C system and it handled better than with the SB but then I cut the front springs, put stiffer leafs in the back, lowered it and ran much wider rubber.
I'm ready to strat crying now....
I had long tubes on it and it was way easier to change the plugs on the BB because the plugs are between the exhaust ports instead of under them.
As far as weight, I took out the A/C system and it handled better than with the SB but then I cut the front springs, put stiffer leafs in the back, lowered it and ran much wider rubber.
I'm ready to strat crying now....
03-30-2006, 06:55 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by ski_dwn_it
I am with the other guys on the larger SBC.......Although this is a neat project I must say and I have to give you props for taking on a project of this caliber.
However with todays available components for SBC that would drop right in, your BB will be much more work and labor and $$ intensive than a real good sbc.
For the same amount of money- you could have done a sbc, with -12 heads (since your into fabricating and does a set of custom headers), got a raised hood, and made close to 800hp conservativly.
A BB adds about 250-300 unneeded pounds to the front that ruins the already well balanced platform that most guys really strive to achieve.
Anything larger at 500+ inches in one of these cars, your going to tear it apart. 632CI - NO WAY will these cars take that without MAJOR chassis work. A motor like that requires a tube chassis built car and your looking at about 18k for that from a good builder like NEVERLIFT.
Not trying to be a wet blanket, just pointing out some things you should consider before getting neck deep into something you wish you wouldn't have.
Good luck and keep us posted!
However with todays available components for SBC that would drop right in, your BB will be much more work and labor and $$ intensive than a real good sbc.
For the same amount of money- you could have done a sbc, with -12 heads (since your into fabricating and does a set of custom headers), got a raised hood, and made close to 800hp conservativly.
A BB adds about 250-300 unneeded pounds to the front that ruins the already well balanced platform that most guys really strive to achieve.
Anything larger at 500+ inches in one of these cars, your going to tear it apart. 632CI - NO WAY will these cars take that without MAJOR chassis work. A motor like that requires a tube chassis built car and your looking at about 18k for that from a good builder like NEVERLIFT.
Not trying to be a wet blanket, just pointing out some things you should consider before getting neck deep into something you wish you wouldn't have.
Good luck and keep us posted!
a big block does not add THAT much weight to the front of these cars. remember mine is an 84, which had all cast hardware from the factory anyways. the big block at least has an aluminum intake and water pump. Eventually a set of heads will make its way on there, and that should bring the weight to within pounds of my production 350. on top of that i won't have AC in this car, and a few other components are sure to go missing as well. overall it will not weight considerably more than a stock 84 corvette will. besides, if this site is right, after im done, it may weight less:
Chevy V6-60 2.8, 3.1 350lbs (2)
Chevy small block V8 575lbs (generic for '60s-'70s motors) - what it has now
Chevy small block V8 535lbs (1) ('59 Corvette 283 w/alum. intake)
Chevy V8 348/409 620lbs (1)
Chevy big block V8 685lbs Mark IV - that's me when this motor's in
a small block would drop right in..true...however, what exactly is "drop in" ? in all reality im starting with a better platform to do the swap based on the sheer simplicity of it. now if i had a TPI or LT1 i'd know better than to do this. to add a true high power SBC i'd have to do literally the same amount of work in removal of old hardware and readying the car to accept the new stuff. there's no way a crossfire would supply the kind of power i intend to make. to convert the car over to a TPI/Miniram/Super-ram/custom EFI would require more work in my eyes. then i have to worry about an ECM, wiring, and a tune (though i could employ ski for that
)....the only real fab work i will be doing is on the crossmember itself and frame strengthening. the headers are a drop in, mounts line right up, and the HVAC actually can be swapped with a ZR-1 unit if i don't feel like modifying mine. it's as straight-forward of a swap as anything can be...and not much more difficult than a high horsepower SBC...but then again keep in mind the only reason im really going with a BBC is i had a perfectly good 427 already assembled with no place to put it...and an anemic crossfire vehicle sitting there...had it been any other year corvette i'd have a pretty well built SBC there...
then again...i like to be different. i'll be one of a few, as opposed to one of the masses...that in and of itself is worth what i'll be putting into it.
DAY 2 UPDATE:
motor is fully stripped and prepped for removal. still need to do exhaust, c-beam, and driveshaft. otherwise it's ready to be yanked. Anyone interested in buying a good running 350 long block to start a project?
engine as it sits right now:
pile of parts...
Last edited by Fubar569; 03-30-2006 at 07:03 PM.
03-30-2006, 09:51 PM
#17
Team Owner
Good luck, I will be watching your progress with great interest. In the future I will be installing a BBC in my 96 along with the help from NeverLift. We have made some changes to the car already in preparation of the swap.
I’ll be looking forward to following you project.
I’ll be looking forward to following you project.
03-31-2006, 07:44 AM
#18
Instructor
Good to see your post John...are you running a blower ? if so what kind ? This big block stuff is interesting.. I have an 85 thats been sitting for 8 years... was thinking of dropping a truck engine with trans into it.
03-31-2006, 08:30 AM
#19
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I would have to agree with Ski, if your goal is 1,000hp, then you will have to make major chassis changes. It would be better to make those now rather than put it together and take it apart again and again. This will simply be one less thing to do in the future since your engine combo will have to upgraded as well. I know that money is probably an issue, however it is cheaper in the long run to not have to redo things. Best of luck, joe
03-31-2006, 09:56 AM
#20
Former Vendor
Fubar,
Good to see you back here as well. Can't beat having a motor to put in for free!
My scenerio of the 200-300 pounds was reffering to if you go much larger than a 500" motor. It does not take long at all for #s to add up. For instance if you go with a 632" motor that will require a high deck aftermarket block, and our small block dart little M blocks are 105lbs more bare than a stock bare block.....put a big old 4.5+" stroke forged crank in it and all the fix'ins that make up a HUGE motor like that you can easily get up to 300#s. Trust me I use a stand for my sbc that I put completely together from intake to pan, waterpump to flexplate, power steering etc all on my stand. For Dads 555 I would not even THINK of putting that monster on that stand. It sags with my sb on it, we have to get a re-inforced super heavy duty stand for Dads and it even sagged alittle.
You will have that thing shoe horned in pretty good. I have seen a few done like that out in Jersey at the strip - they are awesome for sure, but like you are going through it takes some re-engineering to get it in there and done properly.
The ones I saw the motor was attached to a motor plate off that basically replaced the front cross member. The steering needed to be re-routed using flaming river knuckles in several locations. Headers were a custom fit, looked to be bowl of spagetti, and front coil overs were added to offset the weight - and as mentioned the rest of the car was a chassis built machine 25.1 cage setup.
The above is why I said Neverlift is the place to have do it if you do. Mackey is making a wise choice, but what you will have is a totally redesigned car from brakes, shocks, solid rear, 25.1 chassis, etc. Leo at Neverlift is a master with this stuff - look at this if you disagree:
Video
That my friends is what you call SICK!
Good to see you back here as well. Can't beat having a motor to put in for free!
My scenerio of the 200-300 pounds was reffering to if you go much larger than a 500" motor. It does not take long at all for #s to add up. For instance if you go with a 632" motor that will require a high deck aftermarket block, and our small block dart little M blocks are 105lbs more bare than a stock bare block.....put a big old 4.5+" stroke forged crank in it and all the fix'ins that make up a HUGE motor like that you can easily get up to 300#s. Trust me I use a stand for my sbc that I put completely together from intake to pan, waterpump to flexplate, power steering etc all on my stand. For Dads 555 I would not even THINK of putting that monster on that stand. It sags with my sb on it, we have to get a re-inforced super heavy duty stand for Dads and it even sagged alittle.
You will have that thing shoe horned in pretty good. I have seen a few done like that out in Jersey at the strip - they are awesome for sure, but like you are going through it takes some re-engineering to get it in there and done properly.
The ones I saw the motor was attached to a motor plate off that basically replaced the front cross member. The steering needed to be re-routed using flaming river knuckles in several locations. Headers were a custom fit, looked to be bowl of spagetti, and front coil overs were added to offset the weight - and as mentioned the rest of the car was a chassis built machine 25.1 cage setup.
The above is why I said Neverlift is the place to have do it if you do. Mackey is making a wise choice, but what you will have is a totally redesigned car from brakes, shocks, solid rear, 25.1 chassis, etc. Leo at Neverlift is a master with this stuff - look at this if you disagree:
Video
That my friends is what you call SICK!
Last edited by ski_dwn_it; 03-31-2006 at 10:11 AM.