LS1 swap questions
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Sligo PA
LS1 swap questions
So I'm wanting to swap in an ls1 in an 84. I plan on using a 4L60E trans. My question is what it the best year LS1 to get. I have seen them sell for any ware from $2700 to $6000 with all the accessories. The big concern with me is emissions. PA is getting more and more strict with it. So I need an LS1 that came with the least amount of emissions stuff stock. That way I don't have to worry about putting it on my car now. What years does the LS1 have an EGR? Do all C5Corvettes have an electric air pump? Can I take a cable throttle body and use it on a Vette LS1 and not have an error code?
I have heard that the 04 GTO is the best for the swap because no EGR no air pump and has a return fuel line so no special fuel regulators or anything like that. I'm not sure how true that is. Friend of mine has an 04 GTO and his alternator sits way low like an F body. I wonder if it will fit in an 84 like that?
Thanks in advance for any help.
I have heard that the 04 GTO is the best for the swap because no EGR no air pump and has a return fuel line so no special fuel regulators or anything like that. I'm not sure how true that is. Friend of mine has an 04 GTO and his alternator sits way low like an F body. I wonder if it will fit in an 84 like that?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
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From: San Pedro CA
want a real easy fit? Try a late LT1.
I know it's not as fancy, but it is easier to fit, and the emissions are very simple. They do have EGR, but it's very nicely integrated.
Get an LT1 from a 1994 or newer and you have a very modern engine management system that will blow clean for some time to come.
A good LT1 (with accessories, harness, PCM AND transmission) of that vintage will be about $3500 SHIPPED.
As for the LS1, you would get one from a 2001/2002 Camaro/Firebird or a Corvette. The tranny would have to come from a Camaro and the tail shaft would come from a Vette.
The throttle would come from a Camaro or a Vortec truck.
I know it's not as fancy, but it is easier to fit, and the emissions are very simple. They do have EGR, but it's very nicely integrated.
Get an LT1 from a 1994 or newer and you have a very modern engine management system that will blow clean for some time to come.
A good LT1 (with accessories, harness, PCM AND transmission) of that vintage will be about $3500 SHIPPED.
As for the LS1, you would get one from a 2001/2002 Camaro/Firebird or a Corvette. The tranny would have to come from a Camaro and the tail shaft would come from a Vette.
The throttle would come from a Camaro or a Vortec truck.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,876
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From: Sligo PA
I have thought about the LT1 also. I guess my thought was if I'm going to take the time to do the swap I mite as well go LS1. Don't get me wrong, If I came across a real good deal on an LT1 with trans I would probably ****** it up.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 14,604
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From: Glendale, AZ
Originally Posted by Phobos84
So I'm wanting to swap in an ls1 in an 84. I plan on using a 4L60E trans. My question is what it the best year LS1 to get. I have seen them sell for any ware from $2700 to $6000 with all the accessories. The big concern with me is emissions. PA is getting more and more strict with it. So I need an LS1 that came with the least amount of emissions stuff stock. That way I don't have to worry about putting it on my car now. What years does the LS1 have an EGR? Do all C5Corvettes have an electric air pump? Can I take a cable throttle body and use it on a Vette LS1 and not have an error code?
I have heard that the 04 GTO is the best for the swap because no EGR no air pump and has a return fuel line so no special fuel regulators or anything like that. I'm not sure how true that is. Friend of mine has an 04 GTO and his alternator sits way low like an F body. I wonder if it will fit in an 84 like that?
Thanks in advance for any help.
I have heard that the 04 GTO is the best for the swap because no EGR no air pump and has a return fuel line so no special fuel regulators or anything like that. I'm not sure how true that is. Friend of mine has an 04 GTO and his alternator sits way low like an F body. I wonder if it will fit in an 84 like that?
Thanks in advance for any help.
check it out before making that jump - that would be an awful expensive and time consuming mistake!
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
Likes: 45
From: San Pedro CA
Originally Posted by Togo
if your emissions laws are anything like Arizona's, regardless of what motor you put it, you sill still be required to put the same emissions controls that came on your car originally! the EPA doesn't care that you have a cleaner burning engine, if they don't see the air pump or EGR and your car came with that originally, then they will fail you based on the visual inspections.
check it out before making that jump - that would be an awful expensive and time consuming mistake!
check it out before making that jump - that would be an awful expensive and time consuming mistake!
The EPA has deemed it perfectly appropriate to upgrade to a newer engine, you must follow the emissions requirements of the year the engine was made, not the car. To prove this with your state, just show them the source of the engine.
As an aside, it is not cool to use a truck engine... sad, really, cause an iron block would have it's bennies.
As for the LS2 being worth it for the newer tech, it's not that much newer to justify the cost. A late model LS1 is easier to tune and can really rock on a much lower cost of admission.
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
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From: No more yankee my wankee, the Donger is tired!
Originally Posted by bogus
As for the LS2 being worth it for the newer tech, it's not that much newer to justify the cost. A late model LS1 is easier to tune and can really rock on a much lower cost of admission.
All things considered, starting out with the larger bore LS2 makes better sense. You can buy a crate motor new for 3,200 or you can go real wild and step up to a short block 402 for 4 grand.
A lot of the battles you will have to fight for the LS1 will need to be done on the LS2. So all you are setting yourself up for is more HP and TQ.
As far as the tuning, you can run a ls2 with a ls1 pcm. So it's no different.
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,876
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From: Sligo PA
Thanks for all the info guys. The reason I was thinking LS1 instead of LS2 is compression. I wouldn't mind putting a supercharger on it someday. I know they make them for the LS2 but it seems that with the added boost you can put to an LS1 it makes up for the lower cubes. Cost is another factor. I can get a 100% complete LS1 with pulleys, wire harness and PCM for $3500. LS2 is going to be much more. But I'm not set on the LS1 by any means. If I could find a good deal on a LS2 it would be a possibility.
Your right about the engine emissions thing. On Penndot's website they say that you can swap in a newer engine. Then when they do the visual inspection they go by the equipment that is supposed to be on that engine not the car.
Your right about the engine emissions thing. On Penndot's website they say that you can swap in a newer engine. Then when they do the visual inspection they go by the equipment that is supposed to be on that engine not the car.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
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From: San Pedro CA
Originally Posted by Jeffvette
All things considered, starting out with the larger bore LS2 makes better sense. You can buy a crate motor new for 3,200 or you can go real wild and step up to a short block 402 for 4 grand.
A lot of the battles you will have to fight for the LS1 will need to be done on the LS2. So all you are setting yourself up for is more HP and TQ.
As far as the tuning, you can run a ls2 with a ls1 pcm. So it's no different.
A lot of the battles you will have to fight for the LS1 will need to be done on the LS2. So all you are setting yourself up for is more HP and TQ.
As far as the tuning, you can run a ls2 with a ls1 pcm. So it's no different.
But I agree with that senario. It makes good sense... What all comes with the LS2 crate? What about accessories? That could add another $1000~$1500 to the price tag.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
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From: San Pedro CA
Originally Posted by nelson84
You are going to lose the integrety of the car.
It is a classic, let alone the resale value.
It is a classic, let alone the resale value.
Figure that a low mileage, original, 4+3 with Z51 is the best bet... and even those are not going to top $20k... and that's at Carlisle or Bloomington. More accurately, that car would change hands for no more than $12k~$14k. bmwgsa has one, and it's rather nice, but it needs body/paint work. But with about 100k miles, it's not a show car. His, top $$ is about $8k right now.
Do some pricing... you will find that most 1984 Vettes are selling for between $2k and $6k right now. I would put upwards of 80% in that area.
The 1984 still lacks respect... and I will take a long time for a model year that sold so many (~53k) for so long (~18 months).
(as an aside, of the 53k or so built, only about 6500 came with the 4+3... and even fewer came with 4+3 and Z51. only if you had that combo would I be concerned about messing with it.)
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Sligo PA
Originally Posted by bogus
What resale value? Not to be an *** or anything, but only a small percentage of 84s are worth anything.
Figure that a low mileage, original, 4+3 with Z51 is the best bet... and even those are not going to top $20k... and that's at Carlisle or Bloomington. More accurately, that car would change hands for no more than $12k~$14k. bmwgsa has one, and it's rather nice, but it needs body/paint work. But with about 100k miles, it's not a show car. His, top $$ is about $8k right now.
Do some pricing... you will find that most 1984 Vettes are selling for between $2k and $6k right now. I would put upwards of 80% in that area.
The 1984 still lacks respect... and I will take a long time for a model year that sold so many (~53k) for so long (~18 months).
(as an aside, of the 53k or so built, only about 6500 came with the 4+3... and even fewer came with 4+3 and Z51. only if you had that combo would I be concerned about messing with it.)
Figure that a low mileage, original, 4+3 with Z51 is the best bet... and even those are not going to top $20k... and that's at Carlisle or Bloomington. More accurately, that car would change hands for no more than $12k~$14k. bmwgsa has one, and it's rather nice, but it needs body/paint work. But with about 100k miles, it's not a show car. His, top $$ is about $8k right now.
Do some pricing... you will find that most 1984 Vettes are selling for between $2k and $6k right now. I would put upwards of 80% in that area.
The 1984 still lacks respect... and I will take a long time for a model year that sold so many (~53k) for so long (~18 months).
(as an aside, of the 53k or so built, only about 6500 came with the 4+3... and even fewer came with 4+3 and Z51. only if you had that combo would I be concerned about messing with it.)
My big question about using an LS1 is still what is the best year to get one from? And from what car (Fbody, Vette, GTO) Anyone have any more input?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Sligo PA
Originally Posted by bogus
As for the LS1, you would get one from a 2001/2002 Camaro/Firebird or a Corvette. The tranny would have to come from a Camaro and the tail shaft would come from a Vette.
The throttle would come from a Camaro or a Vortec truck.
The throttle would come from a Camaro or a Vortec truck.
Sorry about that...guess you did tell me what I wanted to know.
One other question. Do LS1 cars that use an air pump have an air line going to the cat? Or do they just have one going to the manifold?
Pro
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: British Columbia
You people are going to eat your words, when this hipe about the 60's and 70's musclecars wares off, and it will when the government won't let you drive them in the near future because of fuel consumption and especially from emissions. Be for you post read on. They will change the emission laws in 10 years or less and the older cars will not be exempt anymore. The gov't already has a plan and it will be passed, like it or not.
These early 80's cars will be the hot item I assure you esspecially with the original engines. So if you are going to change the engine trans etc, please keep the old parts on the shelf for future resale value.
You will kick yourself just like you did when you said a few years ago that "I could of bought that musclecar for $4500 and now its worth $60,000.
I could have bought that early 80's vette for $3000-$6000 and in 2016 it is worth $75,000.
These early 80's cars will be the hot item I assure you esspecially with the original engines. So if you are going to change the engine trans etc, please keep the old parts on the shelf for future resale value.
You will kick yourself just like you did when you said a few years ago that "I could of bought that musclecar for $4500 and now its worth $60,000.
I could have bought that early 80's vette for $3000-$6000 and in 2016 it is worth $75,000.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,876
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From: Sligo PA
ummm....okay now back to reality.
This post was not meant to debate about me swapping a late model engine into my car. I was asking questions about LS1 power plants so when I do the swap I will be better prepared.
That and the engine has already been swapped out of my car a long time ago. (Like I said earlier). So its not worth much anyway.
This post was not meant to debate about me swapping a late model engine into my car. I was asking questions about LS1 power plants so when I do the swap I will be better prepared.
That and the engine has already been swapped out of my car a long time ago. (Like I said earlier). So its not worth much anyway.
Last edited by Phobos84; Apr 18, 2006 at 06:59 PM.
