Stupid SuperRam runner to plenum bolts...
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,088
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From: Poop land
Stupid SuperRam runner to plenum bolts...
I'm taking off my SuperRam and swapping over to another intake due to persistent vacuum leaks. This @$%*ing intake apparently has massive vacuum leaks somewhere. I proved this with the propane gas trick. Sure changed the idle when I sprayed it under the plenum.
The removal of this intake will be much more troublesome because I don't have my knowledgeable good friend to help me out. In fact all are plenum-runner bolts are loosened but one. Its the one where the wiper motor and brake booster vacuum port is. How the hell do you get this off without taking the whole car apart?
The removal of this intake will be much more troublesome because I don't have my knowledgeable good friend to help me out. In fact all are plenum-runner bolts are loosened but one. Its the one where the wiper motor and brake booster vacuum port is. How the hell do you get this off without taking the whole car apart?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,270
Likes: 3
From: Seattle Area WA
In an earlier post you said you had no pipe-plugs in the two large holes (for EGR I think) in the bottom of the superram plenum.
Did you have something hooked up to them...or as you alluded to, are they just open and sucking in air
Cause' that will do it...
Did you have something hooked up to them...or as you alluded to, are they just open and sucking in air
Cause' that will do it...
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,001
Likes: 1
From: sd
Put those pipe fittings in and see how it runs. If those are missing you found your leak. Big waste of time IMO is you are swapping out this intake for another when chances are you found the problem.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,324
Likes: 249
From: Summerland B.C. Canada
Originally Posted by USAsOnlyWay
In an earlier post you said you had no pipe-plugs in the two large holes (for EGR I think) in the bottom of the superram plenum.
Did you have something hooked up to them...or as you alluded to, are they just open and sucking in air
Cause' that will do it...
Did you have something hooked up to them...or as you alluded to, are they just open and sucking in air
Cause' that will do it...
Why not just tighten all the bolts.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 22,209
Likes: 12
From: OBAMA IS HITLER
unless you're running a higher duration cam, i have no idea why you opted to put on the SR intake to begin with; its a big mismatch with the stock cam, you need about 2 full steps up in duration. and then you've got your stock heads......
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,518
Likes: 19
Originally Posted by 85vet
I either took off the distributor cap or took out the distributor to get to that d*mn bolt. You have to access it from the opposite side. It has been awhile.
Much easier without the cap. A small ratcheting bix wrench is worth having too. Speeds up the process.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,401
Likes: 397
From: Lakeville MI
It may be leaking at the passenger side runner to base, where the gasket slot is cut very close to the edge of the runner flange.
I used some faststeel epoxy to build up the top of the runner flange to get a larger sealing surface, to reduce the chance of leaking here.
This can be a problem on both sides, as there were some bad gaskets made with the slot too long. Hopefully you have the corrected gasket.
One thing to consider, you could just enrichen your tune to compensate for the extra air introduced via the vacuum leaks. It shouldn't be a huge volume of air flow, maybe a couple grams/sec.
Or you could stick a big cam in it that won't make much vacuum. This should help to reduce leaks.
I used some faststeel epoxy to build up the top of the runner flange to get a larger sealing surface, to reduce the chance of leaking here.
This can be a problem on both sides, as there were some bad gaskets made with the slot too long. Hopefully you have the corrected gasket.
One thing to consider, you could just enrichen your tune to compensate for the extra air introduced via the vacuum leaks. It shouldn't be a huge volume of air flow, maybe a couple grams/sec.
Or you could stick a big cam in it that won't make much vacuum. This should help to reduce leaks.
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Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,088
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From: Poop land
Originally Posted by goldeneye_vet
Put those pipe fittings in and see how it runs. If those are missing you found your leak. Big waste of time IMO is you are swapping out this intake for another when chances are you found the problem.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,401
Likes: 397
From: Lakeville MI
The rough running and stalling should still respond to tuning, although the presence of vacuum leaks can complicate things.
At very low rpm, the load variable goes up which results in a very rich mixture making things worse. The only real solution is IAC, mixture and spark tuning to prevent the low rpm situations from occurring. Shouldn't be a problem for an auto trans car, since you'll never be lugging at 400-500 rpm.
You could also lean out the low rpm portion of the basic pulse width table to compensate for the falsely high load. MAF calibration plays a role here also, with the kick up in the table making things worse.
I've been working similar issues with my own SR.
Try and get ahold of Alvin.
Curious: What intake would you use to replace the SR if you go that route? as there aren't many alternatives.
At very low rpm, the load variable goes up which results in a very rich mixture making things worse. The only real solution is IAC, mixture and spark tuning to prevent the low rpm situations from occurring. Shouldn't be a problem for an auto trans car, since you'll never be lugging at 400-500 rpm.
You could also lean out the low rpm portion of the basic pulse width table to compensate for the falsely high load. MAF calibration plays a role here also, with the kick up in the table making things worse.
I've been working similar issues with my own SR.
Try and get ahold of Alvin.
Curious: What intake would you use to replace the SR if you go that route? as there aren't many alternatives.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 1
From: Cincinnati Oh
we've all been there, done that.
One time I had a massive leak (the "will barely idle" kind) and it boiled down to my getting two of the lower runner-to-base gaskets REVERSED. They're very similar and easy to overlook if you're not careful.
You'll want to double check all vacuum lines for splits or cracks, and to make sure there aren't any "free ends" laying around. The SR is a PITA sometimes and thus it's easy to yank and pull on things to break them loose.
Is your EGR valve sealing? if it's stuck open, that could also cause your problems.
Instead of propane, use WD40 or sensor-safe carb cleaner - this way you can spray it on various mating surfaces and areas to actually locate the area of the leak (IMHO more accurately than propane... and you don't have to worry about singing off your eyebrows in the process).
Good luck, mang!
One time I had a massive leak (the "will barely idle" kind) and it boiled down to my getting two of the lower runner-to-base gaskets REVERSED. They're very similar and easy to overlook if you're not careful.
You'll want to double check all vacuum lines for splits or cracks, and to make sure there aren't any "free ends" laying around. The SR is a PITA sometimes and thus it's easy to yank and pull on things to break them loose.
Is your EGR valve sealing? if it's stuck open, that could also cause your problems.
Instead of propane, use WD40 or sensor-safe carb cleaner - this way you can spray it on various mating surfaces and areas to actually locate the area of the leak (IMHO more accurately than propane... and you don't have to worry about singing off your eyebrows in the process).
Good luck, mang!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,270
Likes: 3
From: Seattle Area WA
Originally Posted by AGENT 86
The lack of the 2 pipe plugs is not the cause. There is no outside air there, just the EGR circuit. I don't even know why the put those holes there.
Why not just tighten all the bolts.
Why not just tighten all the bolts.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 83,383
Likes: 87
From: Boston, MA
Its really not THAT bad once you've done it once. It gets more flack than it should. Have the right tools ready and run a tap through the pizza box to clean up the castings and you will be shocked how easy it becomes. 
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Id get someone who is a really good wrench to seal that SR up properly, throw that adjustable MAF in the trash and replace it with a Bosch. Reset your IAC, tps.
Bet the car runs fine after that.
Bet the car runs fine after that.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,088
Likes: 0
From: Poop land
Originally Posted by tequilaboy
The rough running and stalling should still respond to tuning, although the presence of vacuum leaks can complicate things.
At very low rpm, the load variable goes up which results in a very rich mixture making things worse. The only real solution is IAC, mixture and spark tuning to prevent the low rpm situations from occurring. Shouldn't be a problem for an auto trans car, since you'll never be lugging at 400-500 rpm.
You could also lean out the low rpm portion of the basic pulse width table to compensate for the falsely high load. MAF calibration plays a role here also, with the kick up in the table making things worse.
I've been working similar issues with my own SR.
Try and get ahold of Alvin.
Curious: What intake would you use to replace the SR if you go that route? as there aren't many alternatives.
At very low rpm, the load variable goes up which results in a very rich mixture making things worse. The only real solution is IAC, mixture and spark tuning to prevent the low rpm situations from occurring. Shouldn't be a problem for an auto trans car, since you'll never be lugging at 400-500 rpm.
You could also lean out the low rpm portion of the basic pulse width table to compensate for the falsely high load. MAF calibration plays a role here also, with the kick up in the table making things worse.
I've been working similar issues with my own SR.
Try and get ahold of Alvin.
Curious: What intake would you use to replace the SR if you go that route? as there aren't many alternatives.
The alternative intake that I was considering was a TPiS 1 piece Mini Ram intake. Less vacuum leaks to wory about. I'd also be swapping the cam as well since I'll be suffering a loss of low rpm torque.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,088
Likes: 0
From: Poop land
Originally Posted by cuisinartvette
Id get someone who is a really good wrench to seal that SR up properly, throw that adjustable MAF in the trash and replace it with a Bosch. Reset your IAC, tps.
Bet the car runs fine after that.
Bet the car runs fine after that.
