I’m helping a buddy of mine with his air conditioning on his 1992 Convertible. We are very unfamiliar with these systems. It went to the dealer last year, was recharged with 134A, but leaked out. We thought we’d try and fill it again, but can’t locate the low side fill fitting. It looks like there is a fill fitting on the air conditioning drier, but it does not have a quick connect on it. Just want to be sure before we start to mess with it. Is the fitting on the drier the low side fill? If it is we will get a coupling for it and give it a try.
Thanks for your help.

 

It is actually called an accumulator and yes, it is the low side. But, I have to question why it does not have an adapter, because in order for the dealer to fill up with 134, they had to put one on. Did you find the leak?

 

WOW
I don't think the dealer put R134 in it. You have to have the fitting on it to charge it... These fittings cost 2 dollars. There would be no reason for them to take the fitting off.
I would take the car back to the dealer and find out why they didn't put the fitting on...

 

If it was converted to R134a the dealer is required to leave adapter fittings on hi and low side ports, plus put a conversion sticker on the vehicle. If you know there is a leak and recharge it you are actually breaking federal EPA regulations AND worse polluting. Find the leak, fix the leak, then fix the a/c, in that order.

 

Thanks for the reply guys. I appreciate the help.
I thought the same thing when I was looking around for the low side fitting. Why didn’t they put a quick coupling on there? I know he had it done at the local dealer with R134. It was done last summer worked great, and this year; not working. It looks like its probably leaking pretty bad at the compressor front seal. We’re going to charge it and put in a little red dye to verify.

 

Since you truly don't know for sure if it had R12 or R134, make sure you use the universal UV dye....

 

Well, we know for a fact it left the factory with R12. They ALL did in 1992.

I'd also keep an eye out for cross-contamination problems that can occur if whoever did the A/C work failed to get all of the R-12 refrigerant and oil out of the system before converting to R134a.

A good A/C shop can test the refrigerant and tell if it's R-12, R-134a or cross-contaminated.

 

That's a thought. Most shops will vacuum a R12 car for free. They then resale the R12 much like people buying used oil. I'd take it in and tell them you want the R12 removed. They will put on a tester to see what type of freon it is. Then,

If they do it, then ask them why they didn't convert it last time.

If they don't (because it's R134), then ask why they didn't install the fittings or tag the unit as being converted last time.

 

"If you know there is a leak and recharge it you are actually breaking federal EPA regulations AND worse polluting. Find the leak, fix the leak, then fix the a/c, in that order."

Often cited by shops as the Rule, Fed law is here: http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/609/recharge.html

"EPA regulations do not dictate any particular service, as long as your technician is certified to work with refrigerant and any recycling equipment he uses meets EPA standards. EPA does not require that leak repair be performed before refrigerant is charged into a vehicle, although certain states and localities may require leak repair."

So, there isn't any Fed requirement that you fix it - though common sense (if not air pollution issues) should give you enough reasons to make it tight.

 

Well, I certainly didn’t mean to touch off a national debate on the problems and ethics of do it yourself automobile air conditioning repair, but I feel compelled to address some of the concerns that have been voiced on this thread.
The 1992 Corvette was serviced last summer at a local Chevrolet dealership where they refilled the system with R134, and sent it out the door blowing cold air. The car did not get the mandated conversion sticker, nor did it get a low side quick coupling. The car does however, have a high side coupling. I assume they put that on. Why the dealer did it this way, I don’t know. In light of all the knowledgeable folks on this forum that are voicing their shock that it wasn’t done correctly at the dealer, I’ve recommended to my buddy that he take it back to the dealer for an explanation. It's clearly the next best step; thanks for the guidance. I really do appreciate all the help and knowledge the guys on this site provide, you have helped me better my car and hobby, that I couldn’t have done on my own.
Maybe I'm being defensive, but I get the impression that a couple of you guys have a mental picture of us as a couple of toothless hillbillies, pouring can after can of R134 into this thing watching it dissipate into the atmosphere as we fill our bellies with cheap beer. Now it’s true that we like our beer up here, but that’s not the case. We haven’t done a thing yet, we’re just considering the options. Of course we want to identify and subsequently fix the leak. The thought was to get a little dye in the system so we could accomplish it. The system is currently dry. The R134 the dealer put in has leaked out.
I applaud the guys that have figured out a way to make enough money to bring the car to a technician every time it needs something. Unfortunatley, I don’t have that luxury, and neither does my buddy. If it’s broken, we try to fix it, and bring the cars in only if we can’t figure it out.
I don’t know what the regulations are in other areas, but around here the stores sell R134, and all that’s associated with it, to anybody that will fog a mirror and has a few bucks in his pocket. Based on R134’s conspicuous availability, a toothless federal law, and my general observations, I’d suggest that the potential problems with home use of R134 are far greater then a couple of guys trying to do the right thing and fix a car. I’m no tree hugger, but I would consider myself "Greener" then most, and I will handle the R134 as responsibly as necessity will allow.
Kind Regards, and thanks to everyons for their help and comments.

 

I have a 92 when I changed over to 134 i had a leal i used the dye and had a hard time finding the leak. the leak was at the condenser put in a new one AC 134.00 I made a vaccuum pump from a Dodge compressor (pic a Part) Working Great 2 yeras now.
HAVE FUN

 

I may be wrong (wife says I usually am) and will have to find my ASE books to provide a quote of the law. What I remember is that it is a violation for a technician to charge an automotive ac system if he is aware that there is a leak in the system. I personally would not call an annual top off a leak, but an empty system would mean a leak.

To outofspeck--as the owner of the vehicle you are exempt from the epa regulations for freon certification. I don't think I called you a "toothless hillbilly", nor inferred such a thing. However, if I did insult you I did not mean to and accordingly offer you my apology. For what it is worth I am in the north Georgia hills and would bet we have more "toothless hillbillies" than you do.

 

I don't know of anyone that's exempt from the 609 Regs - If you want your license (which you only need for R12), you can use any of the sites at the EPA site or www.epatest.com and once you have it, buy
R12 to your heart's content (I usually just go to Autozone where I've never spent more than 14 Bucks for a can of it). I do agree that the laws are weak and I think too many shops try to take advantage of the folklore and myth that has developed with the R12 phaseout (which is why I referred you to the EPA site). No insults intended for anyone.

 

Correct.

Good conscience hopefully prevent atmospheric discharge, required certificate prevents from getting ole' R12.

Other than an opps on the quick connects and possible labeling; an evacuation followed by a 134a refill would certainly be the cheapest initial upgrade. Of course the operative word is cheapest as down the road other components might fail due to the least expensive means of upgrading. Normally; evacuate, orifice tube, accumulator, and o-rings is a good general component swap for a 134a retro fit. Even better toss in a evaporator as the old one is probably pretty nasty, and for super efficiency a new condensor. Compressor's are usually fairly tolerant of the 85% fill.

 

The dealer did not do anywhere near a good job of repairing the A/C system much less the conversion to R134a.

A competent shop will affix a decal that gives the date of the conversion, the name, address, and city/state of the shop, the amount of refrigertant in lbs/oz, the type of oil and the amount.

If a UV dye was added, there should be another sticker showing that. There are many suppliers of R134a that include a UV dye in the refrigerant so no additional dye is needed.

Two adapters are added to the old fittings (one at the accumulator and another on the high-side line going to the condensor). These fittings are left in place so that any furure charging or servicing is needed.

The dealership screwed your buddy over. At the very least, they were incompetent.

 

And if all they did was dump R-134 in the system without changing anything then it makes sense that it leaked out. R-134 has smaller molecules that can leak out where R-12 cannot.