anyone using an msd crank trigger?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,379
Likes: 4
From: rome ny
anyone using an msd crank trigger?
i really want to install an msd crank trigger for my xfi, the only bad thing is you need to shim out all the accessories 3/8". i will probably go with an electric water pump and i have no a/c, so all i need to run is the power steering and alt. but the stupid reverse rotation power steering is going to be a problem..
if anyone has a similar setup let me know..
thanks.
if anyone has a similar setup let me know..
thanks.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,009
Likes: 1
From: Springfield MO
Are you shimming everything out to compensate for the magnet wheel? Innovators west has a balancer with the magnets built in, you may contact them.....that would save alot of work. I run one on my brand X car. Good luck
Former Vendor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,204
Likes: 6
From: St Marys PA
Yep I am running one and its not as bad as it seems..You will need a electic water pump though or someone to make you shims for that too.
I made some 3/8" ring spacers....pulled out the accessories by loosening the required bolts, then pulled out one bolt at a time while sliding the bolts back through with the spacers now in place....you may need longer bolts in some spots...but it works and has been on there for some time now with no problems.
CRANK TRIGGERS are the only way to fly
DEAD positive timing no changes due to all the junction points the stock setups entail. 
Can't be used with the stock ECM - so you need to go aftermarket to avoid all the questions coming in from others wanting it.
I made some 3/8" ring spacers....pulled out the accessories by loosening the required bolts, then pulled out one bolt at a time while sliding the bolts back through with the spacers now in place....you may need longer bolts in some spots...but it works and has been on there for some time now with no problems.
CRANK TRIGGERS are the only way to fly
DEAD positive timing no changes due to all the junction points the stock setups entail. Can't be used with the stock ECM - so you need to go aftermarket to avoid all the questions coming in from others wanting it.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,013
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by mos90
i really want to install an msd crank trigger for my xfi, the only bad thing is you need to shim out all the accessories 3/8". i will probably go with an electric water pump and i have no a/c, so all i need to run is the power steering and alt. but the stupid reverse rotation power steering is going to be a problem..
if anyone has a similar setup let me know..
thanks.
if anyone has a similar setup let me know..
thanks.
http://www.exoticmuscle.com/webpage....&CATSEL=ENGINE Part number C1306
Last edited by Mr6spd; Sep 28, 2006 at 12:15 AM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,379
Likes: 4
From: rome ny
Originally Posted by DieL
If you have a distributor in place why not go with a dual sync ? That's what I'm using to run sequential with my gen 7.
Former Vendor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,204
Likes: 6
From: St Marys PA
Jeeper....never saw that setup that EM offers....hmmmm?
Anyways no I don't have any recent photos of the setup that I am using. Its just a standard MSD trigger like you had posted and I made up some 3/8 donut spacers that I used to shim out the brackets at their fastener locations...pretty straight forward and ran into no problems at all.
The pulley ends up being pretty close to the steering down front, but mine has never hit and you can still get the belt fished through....
You should have no problems with what your doing.
Also as a side note, there is little to no performance to be gained with sequential vs batch fire at WOT> The event of the valve system are happening so quick, there is not much difference and time for fuel to fall out of suspension or build up on the walls.....At idle is about the time that you might be able to gain some ability to tune slightly better than the batch fire....this is information shared with me by a good friend at DFI who has helped develope the system.......this is based on countless hours working on these type systems...and I was prepared to buy their stuff to make mine sequential....he talked me out of it. ...
Anyways no I don't have any recent photos of the setup that I am using. Its just a standard MSD trigger like you had posted and I made up some 3/8 donut spacers that I used to shim out the brackets at their fastener locations...pretty straight forward and ran into no problems at all.
The pulley ends up being pretty close to the steering down front, but mine has never hit and you can still get the belt fished through....
You should have no problems with what your doing.
Also as a side note, there is little to no performance to be gained with sequential vs batch fire at WOT> The event of the valve system are happening so quick, there is not much difference and time for fuel to fall out of suspension or build up on the walls.....At idle is about the time that you might be able to gain some ability to tune slightly better than the batch fire....this is information shared with me by a good friend at DFI who has helped develope the system.......this is based on countless hours working on these type systems...and I was prepared to buy their stuff to make mine sequential....he talked me out of it. ...
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Drifting
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Holliston MA
Cruise-In VII Veteran
FWIW, You can run an Accel Dual Sync with a XFI. I'm running one on my car. Be careful with the XFI and the cam sync if you're using an inductive signal for the sync. You should be using a shielded cable to try to prevent electrical noise from throwing a cam sync code with an inductive signal. Your individual cylinder corrections will turn off should it code.
Individual cylinder correction is about the only reason for sequential at WOT. With injectors sized right you'll be running 85% or so injector duty cycle, so the injector is open while the intake valve is closed anyways. Idle and part throttle is are totally different issues, and large injectors and forced induction come into play decision wise for seq vs bank to bank.
The MSD crank trigger outputs an inductive signal just like a HEI distributor's pick up signal. You feed the crank trigger output into a HEI module and the stock computer will still work. If I remember right you just need to sync the crank trigger to 6 degrees BTDC with the bypass disconnected. Use a small cap HEI module. Uses metripak connectors. The crank trigger won't work with a LT1 based car.
Individual cylinder correction is about the only reason for sequential at WOT. With injectors sized right you'll be running 85% or so injector duty cycle, so the injector is open while the intake valve is closed anyways. Idle and part throttle is are totally different issues, and large injectors and forced induction come into play decision wise for seq vs bank to bank.
The MSD crank trigger outputs an inductive signal just like a HEI distributor's pick up signal. You feed the crank trigger output into a HEI module and the stock computer will still work. If I remember right you just need to sync the crank trigger to 6 degrees BTDC with the bypass disconnected. Use a small cap HEI module. Uses metripak connectors. The crank trigger won't work with a LT1 based car.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,379
Likes: 4
From: rome ny
Originally Posted by SloRvette
FWIW, You can run an Accel Dual Sync with a XFI. I'm running one on my car. Be careful with the XFI and the cam sync if you're using an inductive signal for the sync. You should be using a shielded cable to try to prevent electrical noise from throwing a cam sync code with an inductive signal. Your individual cylinder corrections will turn off should it code.
Individual cylinder correction is about the only reason for sequential at WOT. With injectors sized right you'll be running 85% or so injector duty cycle, so the injector is open while the intake valve is closed anyways. Idle and part throttle is are totally different issues, and large injectors and forced induction come into play decision wise for seq vs bank to bank.
The MSD crank trigger outputs an inductive signal just like a HEI distributor's pick up signal. You feed the crank trigger output into a HEI module and the stock computer will still work. If I remember right you just need to sync the crank trigger to 6 degrees BTDC with the bypass disconnected. Use a small cap HEI module. Uses metripak connectors. The crank trigger won't work with a LT1 based car.
Individual cylinder correction is about the only reason for sequential at WOT. With injectors sized right you'll be running 85% or so injector duty cycle, so the injector is open while the intake valve is closed anyways. Idle and part throttle is are totally different issues, and large injectors and forced induction come into play decision wise for seq vs bank to bank.
The MSD crank trigger outputs an inductive signal just like a HEI distributor's pick up signal. You feed the crank trigger output into a HEI module and the stock computer will still work. If I remember right you just need to sync the crank trigger to 6 degrees BTDC with the bypass disconnected. Use a small cap HEI module. Uses metripak connectors. The crank trigger won't work with a LT1 based car.
its funny you say that.. im having a problem with a crank reference angle error, code 128. it causes a misfire. i have an xfi tpi harness and it is shielded but not on the wires coming off the cam sync on the dist. it makes my tach go crazy around 4500 rpms. im wondering if its noise from the cam signal causing this.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,500
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From: Holliston MA
Cruise-In VII Veteran
It's definitely possible. It'll most likely be noise one way or the other. You've got the hall effect cam and crank inputs on the harness grounded ?
What flash update are you using ?
What flash update are you using ?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,379
Likes: 4
From: rome ny
Originally Posted by SloRvette
It's definitely possible. It'll most likely be noise one way or the other. You've got the hall effect cam and crank inputs on the harness grounded ?
What flash update are you using ?
What flash update are you using ?
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,500
Likes: 0
From: Holliston MA
Cruise-In VII Veteran
The XFI has the capabilites of using either hall effect or inductive crank and cam sensors. The unused inputs need to be grounded. I think in your case, with the MSD distributor, that you are using the inductive inputs. The discretes (hall effect) should be grounded. I'll double check the extra harness I've got at the shop to see if the ignition adapter harness automaticly does this.
Does the rpm log trace from the XFI freak out at the point the tach does ?
Does the rpm log trace from the XFI freak out at the point the tach does ?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,472
Likes: 0
From: Toronto ONTARIO
Originally Posted by mos90
i cant run accels dual sync with my xfi, im running a an msd dual sync. im running to much hp and lot of cylinder pressure to rely on "if" my timing is correct. a crank trigger eliminates any questions. and makes it a lot easier to time correctly.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,379
Likes: 4
From: rome ny
Originally Posted by SloRvette
The XFI has the capabilites of using either hall effect or inductive crank and cam sensors. The unused inputs need to be grounded. I think in your case, with the MSD distributor, that you are using the inductive inputs. The discretes (hall effect) should be grounded. I'll double check the extra harness I've got at the shop to see if the ignition adapter harness automaticly does this.
Does the rpm log trace from the XFI freak out at the point the tach does ?
Does the rpm log trace from the XFI freak out at the point the tach does ?
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,500
Likes: 0
From: Holliston MA
Cruise-In VII Veteran
The bank to bank isn't going to fix the problem you're having.
You didn't reply to the rpm log question. That'll tell you for sure about the distributor's output. Logging cam sync will also give you an indicator of what the box is seeing.
A crank trigger is the best means for ignition triggering, but if you've got other noise that's messing things up, it isn't going to solve the problem. I've had coil wires to close to crank trigger wires, ignition box powers run to close to some things, weird, weird stuff cause problems like you're having. I just hate seeing people throw money at problems before isolating the problem.
Did you have the XFI on the engine when you dyno'd it ?
You didn't reply to the rpm log question. That'll tell you for sure about the distributor's output. Logging cam sync will also give you an indicator of what the box is seeing.
A crank trigger is the best means for ignition triggering, but if you've got other noise that's messing things up, it isn't going to solve the problem. I've had coil wires to close to crank trigger wires, ignition box powers run to close to some things, weird, weird stuff cause problems like you're having. I just hate seeing people throw money at problems before isolating the problem.
Did you have the XFI on the engine when you dyno'd it ?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,379
Likes: 4
From: rome ny
i did a few logs and it doesnt appear to be spiking like the tach does.
the dyno was done with a carb.
i had the coil wire tied in with the msd power wires, i decided to move it and still the same problem. the funny thing is it doesnt always do it. i had to run my coil in about 4 ft from my dist, no room, it is by the driver side front head light. i think it is related to the dist. i cant seem to find anything else.unless i have a bad spark plug wire and its jumping, they are brand new, i dont know where esle to go but the crank trigger...
the dyno was done with a carb.
i had the coil wire tied in with the msd power wires, i decided to move it and still the same problem. the funny thing is it doesnt always do it. i had to run my coil in about 4 ft from my dist, no room, it is by the driver side front head light. i think it is related to the dist. i cant seem to find anything else.unless i have a bad spark plug wire and its jumping, they are brand new, i dont know where esle to go but the crank trigger...
Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 270
Likes: 8
From: Gilbert, AZ
Originally Posted by SloRvette
FWIW, You can run an Accel Dual Sync with a XFI. I'm running one on my car. Be careful with the XFI and the cam sync if you're using an inductive signal for the sync. You should be using a shielded cable to try to prevent electrical noise from throwing a cam sync code with an inductive signal. Your individual cylinder corrections will turn off should it code.
Individual cylinder correction is about the only reason for sequential at WOT. With injectors sized right you'll be running 85% or so injector duty cycle, so the injector is open while the intake valve is closed anyways. Idle and part throttle is are totally different issues, and large injectors and forced induction come into play decision wise for seq vs bank to bank.
The MSD crank trigger outputs an inductive signal just like a HEI distributor's pick up signal. You feed the crank trigger output into a HEI module and the stock computer will still work. If I remember right you just need to sync the crank trigger to 6 degrees BTDC with the bypass disconnected. Use a small cap HEI module. Uses metripak connectors. The crank trigger won't work with a LT1 based car.
Individual cylinder correction is about the only reason for sequential at WOT. With injectors sized right you'll be running 85% or so injector duty cycle, so the injector is open while the intake valve is closed anyways. Idle and part throttle is are totally different issues, and large injectors and forced induction come into play decision wise for seq vs bank to bank.
The MSD crank trigger outputs an inductive signal just like a HEI distributor's pick up signal. You feed the crank trigger output into a HEI module and the stock computer will still work. If I remember right you just need to sync the crank trigger to 6 degrees BTDC with the bypass disconnected. Use a small cap HEI module. Uses metripak connectors. The crank trigger won't work with a LT1 based car.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,500
Likes: 0
From: Holliston MA
Cruise-In VII Veteran
Originally Posted by quadracr
Is this because of the Optispark. They make kits to convert over to coil on plug using the LS1 and the Northstar system. Not sure what their using as a trigger, but I've always heard good things about MSD. Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm just getting my feet wet with Corvettes.