Bread Box removal
11-07-2006, 09:04 AM
#21
Drifting
Thread Starter
I think we strayed a little from my question. Will the wiring harness come out if I remove the 2 small bolts on the firewall at the right side of the motor or won't the connectors fit through there? THANKS GUY'S Pipe
11-07-2006, 03:00 PM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
No, the wiring harness will not pull through there if you are talking about the same screws i am. The harness seperatesinto 3-4 major bundels behind the bread-box and one of the major ones is the fuse panel on the extreme outside edge of the b-box. Open the door and it is mounted on the side of the dash behind a plate that is held in with 2 (late models 1) large plastic screws. If these are the screws you are talking about then you are in for a big suprise. The fuse box itself is held to the dash with 3or4 screws. If you don't have the box off i can't imagine how you are seeing the bulckhead harness under there. The only other stuff that passes through back there is the heater/ac wies, vac hose and I don't clearly remember much else. I realy need a better description of the location of your "round plate" to look at mine and figgure it out. Now is the best time since i have my dash apart and the interior stripped bare.
If you guys want letters on your flat panel/box-delete try using the 84-89 rear bumper letters. They even come in colors to try to match things up. I have seen a couple of those and they do look nice.
If you guys want letters on your flat panel/box-delete try using the 84-89 rear bumper letters. They even come in colors to try to match things up. I have seen a couple of those and they do look nice.
11-07-2006, 03:09 PM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
I have a serious qustion for those of yopu that have the delete kit installed. Could you please take a tape measure and measure the exact hight and width of the raised area on it? I have a carbon-fiber stick-on peice that is supposed to go over that but it seems too large. If it is too big i am going to have to build my own out of aluminum... I would rather not have to do that.
11-07-2006, 03:54 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
dash ECM stuff
This is what it looks like when you start on a 1987, you can see two spikes sticking up at the top. Those are the top (bottom) of the ECM. It sits vertically and comes right out the bottom very easily with the kick plate off.
Here is what it looks like with all the stuff off, you can see all the mounting points and duct and wiring routes:
You can kind of get an idea of all the stuff in the way, I was wiring in a FAST XFI and wanted to run the wiring directly under the factory harness for stealth purposes. There was so much junk and padding and carpet and A/C & heater ducting that I basically had to use a wire fish to get every wire through. I am 6'3" and 250lbs and I had to remove the passenger seat and take yoga to get under the dash. My shoulders still hurt from the fact that the footwell is 6 inches narrower than I am. Here are some more pics so you can get an idea where stuff is and what can get moved a bit. Hope they help.
Here is a shot with room being cleared for the XFI, this shows a bit more of the ducting and wiring behind the breadbox so you can get an idea what's back there. Btw, the breadbox itself is hollow empty space but is pretty much unusable.
This is what it ended up looking like in the end. The flash makes everythind look kinda odd but it turned out ok. There is a red cold cathode light from the front of a computer illuminating for looks only. It of course can be defeated with a switch.
For when I get it smogged or park in a spot and have to leave my car I set it up so I can cover it with a flat dash in about 30 seconds and have it look stock. Again, sorry about the funky lighting.
I still needed to be able to tune the XFI so made it so the cable could be brought through the passenger courtesy footwell light. I don't carry passengers that much and there are ten other lights in the car so wasn't worried about them not being able to admire their shoes while getting in the car.
Cable out.
Cable hidden:
Again the whole thing takes like 30 seconds to swap. With the wiring coming out just under the main harness on the firewall passenger side and piggybacking into the stock harness where possible its almost impossible to find the XFI if its covered up without dissassembling the car. But also I can turn on the light over the XFI and remove the cover plate and with the lights flashing on the XFI it looks great. The main reason for putting it there is that the stock ECM is still in and working to run the dash and speedo and all the stock smog stuff so I wanted short runs from one ECM to the other. All of about one foot now. No under the seat to the dash wire runs.
I must say the hardest part of this whole thing other than figuring out where all the wiring needed to go was just what you are asking about with the running of the wires though the firewall area from the ECM area. This was a miserable nightmare and required the wire fish and holes to be cut VERY carefully and cramming myself into the underdash and back of the engine compartment until my arms ached and it looked like I got into a fight with a cat my arms where so torn up. I am large though, if you are smaller, your mileage may vary. heh. Hopefully the pics of things taken apart will help you as to what is where, a picture is worth a thousand words and all that. Good luck man. Again sorry about photo quality, I suck with the camera.
Oh, and here are some shots of the back of the breadbox off the car so you can see where all the mounting screws actually are.
Here is what it looks like with all the stuff off, you can see all the mounting points and duct and wiring routes:
You can kind of get an idea of all the stuff in the way, I was wiring in a FAST XFI and wanted to run the wiring directly under the factory harness for stealth purposes. There was so much junk and padding and carpet and A/C & heater ducting that I basically had to use a wire fish to get every wire through. I am 6'3" and 250lbs and I had to remove the passenger seat and take yoga to get under the dash. My shoulders still hurt from the fact that the footwell is 6 inches narrower than I am. Here are some more pics so you can get an idea where stuff is and what can get moved a bit. Hope they help.
Here is a shot with room being cleared for the XFI, this shows a bit more of the ducting and wiring behind the breadbox so you can get an idea what's back there. Btw, the breadbox itself is hollow empty space but is pretty much unusable.
This is what it ended up looking like in the end. The flash makes everythind look kinda odd but it turned out ok. There is a red cold cathode light from the front of a computer illuminating for looks only. It of course can be defeated with a switch.
For when I get it smogged or park in a spot and have to leave my car I set it up so I can cover it with a flat dash in about 30 seconds and have it look stock. Again, sorry about the funky lighting.
I still needed to be able to tune the XFI so made it so the cable could be brought through the passenger courtesy footwell light. I don't carry passengers that much and there are ten other lights in the car so wasn't worried about them not being able to admire their shoes while getting in the car.
Cable out.
Cable hidden:
Again the whole thing takes like 30 seconds to swap. With the wiring coming out just under the main harness on the firewall passenger side and piggybacking into the stock harness where possible its almost impossible to find the XFI if its covered up without dissassembling the car. But also I can turn on the light over the XFI and remove the cover plate and with the lights flashing on the XFI it looks great. The main reason for putting it there is that the stock ECM is still in and working to run the dash and speedo and all the stock smog stuff so I wanted short runs from one ECM to the other. All of about one foot now. No under the seat to the dash wire runs.
I must say the hardest part of this whole thing other than figuring out where all the wiring needed to go was just what you are asking about with the running of the wires though the firewall area from the ECM area. This was a miserable nightmare and required the wire fish and holes to be cut VERY carefully and cramming myself into the underdash and back of the engine compartment until my arms ached and it looked like I got into a fight with a cat my arms where so torn up. I am large though, if you are smaller, your mileage may vary. heh. Hopefully the pics of things taken apart will help you as to what is where, a picture is worth a thousand words and all that. Good luck man. Again sorry about photo quality, I suck with the camera.
Oh, and here are some shots of the back of the breadbox off the car so you can see where all the mounting screws actually are.
Last edited by Jaxian; 11-07-2006 at 05:14 PM.
11-07-2006, 06:29 PM
#25
Drifting
Thread Starter
Jaxian thanks so much for the pics now I will know how to get tha ECM out and the breadbox off. Todd vette87 sorry I told ya the wrong thing. If your standing at the front of the car looking into the engine compartment to the left of the distributor there are 2 small bolts holding a metal plate onto the firewall in which the engine harness passes through. This is the bolts i'm talking about to try to get the harness out. Doe's this part of the harness hook to the ECM behind the breadbox in the pics Jaxian showed? Here's the deal guy's i'm switching this 84 crossfire over to a TPI and wanted to get the harness reworked by someone (not sure who doe's that) or could I just get a harness out of a later model vette (speed density) and plug it in to a later style ECM and have it work with the 84 dash and everything work ok. THANKS MUCH GUY'S FOR THE REPLY'S this is kinda the only thing holding me up with my project right now. Pipe
11-07-2006, 07:49 PM
#26
Burning Brakes
Firewall connector.
I ended up just leaving that firewall harness bulkhead/passthru beast alone, first it was too high up to even access from the inside. Second as soon as the wires leave the bulkhead connector on the inside of the firewall they spread out in like 9 different directions. Now, if you really wanted to dig in, you could split out all the wires for the ECM alone and try to pull them out and swap them but there are wires coming from the ECM that don't go anywhere near the firewall, they run to the fuseblock and to the instrument cluster and tons of other spots. If you could get a full harness and just swap one for the other, including fuseblock and stuff that would be easiest but I have never examined the difference between an 84 CF and the later TPI motors, the swap might be much easier than the physical layout would suggest. Wish you luck on this, people have done it so it can't be impossibly difficult.
11-07-2006, 11:01 PM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Pipe,
Hang in there...Others have done it but i honestly don't know how...Yet!
I also have an 84(which is up and running) that i will try to compare to the 87. I had to replace the dash frame on the 84 years ago and that seemed impossible for a while. I promise to get a good look at both in the next couple days. The problem for you is going to be as stated above. The harness is a very intercrossed mess of stoned squid in an an orgy. It may be better to id each wire coming out and cross referance where the ones you need tie into the ecm. you may be splicing a couple of them twice to relocate at the ecm and adding on under the hood to give you the new conections. I wish that i had the time to dig through wiring diagrams of both 84 and the 85up. The good news is that there were very few changes in the ecm side for all the tpi years. It may well be that you will only have to make a couple of serious changes and not the entire harness. I will look to see what might make easier references.
Hang in there...Others have done it but i honestly don't know how...Yet!
I also have an 84(which is up and running) that i will try to compare to the 87. I had to replace the dash frame on the 84 years ago and that seemed impossible for a while. I promise to get a good look at both in the next couple days. The problem for you is going to be as stated above. The harness is a very intercrossed mess of stoned squid in an an orgy. It may be better to id each wire coming out and cross referance where the ones you need tie into the ecm. you may be splicing a couple of them twice to relocate at the ecm and adding on under the hood to give you the new conections. I wish that i had the time to dig through wiring diagrams of both 84 and the 85up. The good news is that there were very few changes in the ecm side for all the tpi years. It may well be that you will only have to make a couple of serious changes and not the entire harness. I will look to see what might make easier references.
11-09-2006, 05:55 PM
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Pipe,
I cant get to the plate on my 84, but there is a large harness conection going into my 87 as well??? I don't think that your conections will fit throught there. Sorry. I did some comparing of the 84 and 87 ecm conections. They are completely different, but you might be able to carfully remove each of the fittings from inside your conector then snap them into place where they are called for on a later conection. If you use a tpi ecm that has map insted of mass many of the wires are the same color code, size and conector. It will take ALOT of planning and patience but it looks doable. Ask around some more to make certain.
Just looking at all of the tie-ins and splitting of bundels makes it look like replacing the entire harness will be almost impossible with-out cutting some-thing some-where. The splicing idea will probably be easier. BUT i don't have ANY INFO what so ever on if the digital dash systems take different signals to make it work in the end. I hope that you can find some-one who has access to more in depth info on this change...I just canceled any plans of changing my 84! Call arizona speed & marine and/or street & performance and see if maybe they make a harness that will addapt to your change easier. I am sure that there are others who may make some-thing as well. Sorry that i am not more help.
I cant get to the plate on my 84, but there is a large harness conection going into my 87 as well??? I don't think that your conections will fit throught there. Sorry. I did some comparing of the 84 and 87 ecm conections. They are completely different, but you might be able to carfully remove each of the fittings from inside your conector then snap them into place where they are called for on a later conection. If you use a tpi ecm that has map insted of mass many of the wires are the same color code, size and conector. It will take ALOT of planning and patience but it looks doable. Ask around some more to make certain.
Just looking at all of the tie-ins and splitting of bundels makes it look like replacing the entire harness will be almost impossible with-out cutting some-thing some-where. The splicing idea will probably be easier. BUT i don't have ANY INFO what so ever on if the digital dash systems take different signals to make it work in the end. I hope that you can find some-one who has access to more in depth info on this change...I just canceled any plans of changing my 84! Call arizona speed & marine and/or street & performance and see if maybe they make a harness that will addapt to your change easier. I am sure that there are others who may make some-thing as well. Sorry that i am not more help.
08-30-2011, 09:20 PM
#31
Race Director
You pulled up a 5-yr-old thread to say "Thanks for the idea?" What gives? 
FWIW, you don't have to pull the breadbox to drop the ECM. I can get mine in/out with 2 philips screws and 2 10mm bolts. I can drop it in 5 minutes.
Let me know if you're interested.
FWIW, you don't have to pull the breadbox to drop the ECM. I can get mine in/out with 2 philips screws and 2 10mm bolts. I can drop it in 5 minutes.
Let me know if you're interested.
08-30-2011, 09:49 PM
#32
Race Director
I'm installing a FAST ECU, this is my mount spot solution
AND, it proves that the search engine is useful, does work and is used
08-30-2011, 10:30 PM
#33
Race Director
In that new thread, it would probably be more evident why the old thread is being referenced.
I guess that protocol was too confusing?
BTW...It would have been funnier if you said maybe you were moving too FAST for me!! LOL
08-30-2011, 10:38 PM
#34
Race Director
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for searching thru the archives. But, here's what I'm referring to....
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/foru...s-or-more.html
I didn't see an update.
Originally Posted by Cor08vette
If an existing thread has not received a reply for a period of 45 days or more, members should create a new thread which is identical or similar in nature, rather than to post to the existing one.
Similar or identical threads created under 45 days will be considered a dupe, and will be locked accordingly.
This rule will not apply to technical discussions or to posts in threads where such posts have been made to update the threads with information deemed by moderators to be of benefit to Forum members.
Similar or identical threads created under 45 days will be considered a dupe, and will be locked accordingly.
This rule will not apply to technical discussions or to posts in threads where such posts have been made to update the threads with information deemed by moderators to be of benefit to Forum members.
I didn't see an update.
08-30-2011, 11:06 PM
#35
Team Owner
Member Since: Aug 2005
Location: Riverside County Southern California
Posts: 34,988
Received 501 Likes
on
342 Posts
Co-winner 2020 C4 of the Year - Modified
2018 Corvette of Year Finalist
2017 C4 of Year
2016 C7 of Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20
08-31-2011, 06:40 AM
#36
Race Director
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for searching thru the archives. But, here's what I'm referring to....
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/foru...s-or-more.html
I didn't see an update.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/foru...s-or-more.html
I didn't see an update.
