ZF6 fluid
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 4
From: Hinckley Ohio
http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/mtf.aspx
Another possible synthetic alternative.....
But aren't gears just gears...what is so special about the ZF6??
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
Likes: 45
From: San Pedro CA
However the plot thickens-----Royal Purple recommends their XPR motor oil as a replacement for the GM spec'd fill!!!!! Wonder if they know what they are talking about and if so what is special about their oil?
http://www.royalpurple.com/techa/tranxref.html
http://www.royalpurple.com/prodsa/rpro.html
I am seriously considering the XPR 5W30-------I am currently running the Castrol 10W60, which seems to be fine, but I am just thinking there just might be an extra 5hp or so in the 5w30 vs 10w60??? I am sure fuel economy etc was part of GM's decision to use 5w30 in the first place.
What I was saying was that regular oil won't do it. Castrol GTX will only result in a ****ed up ZF6.
I still have the email from Martin Vogel:
enclosed you find a paper on the recommended fluids for the S6-40 transmission.
We know that there are formulation differences between engine oils and ATFs (not only base stock differences !).
These differences can be handeled by the transmission.
All these fluids we have mentioned in our recommendation list work well in the transmission.
Normally gear oils will be the best choice for use in manual shift transmissions. But in case of the S6-40 these kind of fluids using additives based on S/P will not work. Reason therefor is the incompatibility of this fluids with the used synchronizer material and the low thermal oxidative stability.
Regards,
Martin Vogel
Schmierstoffe und chem. Labor (TW-L)
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Andy Bogus
Betreff: ZF S6-40 Manual Transmission
Mr. Vogel,
I am writing with a question, Did you actually make this recommendation:
Within our S6-40 6 speed transmission we use synchronizer material based on
sinter bronze. Therefor we recommend the use of ATFs according to
specification GM Dexron II or III. Good bench and field test experience do
we have with the approved ATFs according to lubricant class 02F (seen
enclosed list of lubricants TE-ML 02).
Regards,
Martin Vogel
Everything I have ever read, understood and believed in directs us to use either the General Motors fill (a 30 wt synthetic) or the Castrol TWS 10W-60 (available in the US only throught BMW dealers). There is a huge difference between ATF and motor oil base stocks.
I am fully aware that Tremics T56 uses ATF, but that's an entirely different transmission, different brand, different design.
Can you provide some clarity for this?
Thank you very much for your time.
Sincerely,
We know that there are formulation differences between engine oils and ATFs (not only base stock differences !).
These differences can be handeled by the transmission.
All these fluids we have mentioned in our recommendation list work well in the transmission.
Normally gear oils will be the best choice for use in manual shift transmissions. But in case of the S6-40 these kind of fluids using additives based on S/P will not work. Reason therefor is the incompatibility of this fluids with the used synchronizer material and the low thermal oxidative stability.
Regards,
Martin Vogel
Schmierstoffe und chem. Labor (TW-L)
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Andy Bogus
Betreff: ZF S6-40 Manual Transmission
Mr. Vogel,
I am writing with a question, Did you actually make this recommendation:
Within our S6-40 6 speed transmission we use synchronizer material based on
sinter bronze. Therefor we recommend the use of ATFs according to
specification GM Dexron II or III. Good bench and field test experience do
we have with the approved ATFs according to lubricant class 02F (seen
enclosed list of lubricants TE-ML 02).
Regards,
Martin Vogel
Everything I have ever read, understood and believed in directs us to use either the General Motors fill (a 30 wt synthetic) or the Castrol TWS 10W-60 (available in the US only throught BMW dealers). There is a huge difference between ATF and motor oil base stocks.
I am fully aware that Tremics T56 uses ATF, but that's an entirely different transmission, different brand, different design.
Can you provide some clarity for this?
Thank you very much for your time.
Sincerely,
Recommended lubricants and oil drain intervals for
ZF S6-40 transmission used in GM Corvette
1. Recommended Lubricants
- GM oil part no. 105 293 1
or
- BMW oil part no. 075 100 094 20
(Castrol Formula RS SAE 10W60)
or
- ATF according to ZF lubricant class 02F
(ZF list of lubricants TE-ML 02 see ZF internet home page
www.zf.com)
2. Recommended Oil Drain Intervals
30,000 - 40,000 miles (48,000 - 64,000 km)
ZF S6-40 transmission used in GM Corvette
1. Recommended Lubricants
- GM oil part no. 105 293 1
or
- BMW oil part no. 075 100 094 20
(Castrol Formula RS SAE 10W60)
or
- ATF according to ZF lubricant class 02F
(ZF list of lubricants TE-ML 02 see ZF internet home page
www.zf.com)
2. Recommended Oil Drain Intervals
30,000 - 40,000 miles (48,000 - 64,000 km)
Racer
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
Perhaps you are right regarding additives. I recall reading that motor oil isn't very good for motors anymore after removing additives that are identified as causing damage to the catalytic converter.
Last edited by 89er; Mar 13, 2007 at 11:34 AM. Reason: sentence error
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,348
Likes: 233
From: SCMR Rat Pack'r Charter Member..Great Bend KS
After reading through all the posts....again....I've come to the conclusion that we should all be using GM's recommended fill for the ZF6.......
Larry
code5coupe
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Seneca Falls NY
I used AMSOIL Synthetic Synchromesh Transmission Fluid (MTF) a year ago in my fluid change. The car definitely shifted better, but I also put in a hurst shifter too so that may have been a factor. Very happy with the results.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 14,686
Likes: 753
From: NEwhere Ohio
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 4
From: Hinckley Ohio
Subject: Re: TECH: ZF6 fluid
From: H. Halverson
Reply-To: H. Halverson
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:06:39 -0800
Content-Type: text/plain
>I've heard that GM has obsoleted the OEM fill oil
>(1052931) and replaced it with another product that
>seems to be used in trucks. Anybody have any insight
>into whether this is a carefully thought out decision,
>a vendor change, or some cost reduction initiative?
>Maybe it's not an issue at all.
GM stoped selling the factory-fill lubricant for ZFs because the
supplier, Texaco, stopped making it. This happened about 2001 or so. The
lube GM-SPO sells now is another 5W30 engine oil, but from a different
supplier and, probably, a slightly different formula.
cYa
Hib Halverson
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 14,686
Likes: 753
From: NEwhere Ohio
Found this regarding the GM fill...
Subject: Re: TECH: ZF6 fluid
From: H. Halverson
Reply-To: H. Halverson
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:06:39 -0800
Content-Type: text/plain
>I've heard that GM has obsoleted the OEM fill oil
>(1052931) and replaced it with another product that
>seems to be used in trucks. Anybody have any insight
>into whether this is a carefully thought out decision,
>a vendor change, or some cost reduction initiative?
>Maybe it's not an issue at all.
GM stoped selling the factory-fill lubricant for ZFs because the
supplier, Texaco, stopped making it. This happened about 2001 or so. The
lube GM-SPO sells now is another 5W30 engine oil, but from a different
supplier and, probably, a slightly different formula.
cYa
Hib Halverson
Subject: Re: TECH: ZF6 fluid
From: H. Halverson
Reply-To: H. Halverson
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:06:39 -0800
Content-Type: text/plain
>I've heard that GM has obsoleted the OEM fill oil
>(1052931) and replaced it with another product that
>seems to be used in trucks. Anybody have any insight
>into whether this is a carefully thought out decision,
>a vendor change, or some cost reduction initiative?
>Maybe it's not an issue at all.
GM stoped selling the factory-fill lubricant for ZFs because the
supplier, Texaco, stopped making it. This happened about 2001 or so. The
lube GM-SPO sells now is another 5W30 engine oil, but from a different
supplier and, probably, a slightly different formula.
cYa
Hib Halverson
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Racer
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
In my MGB transmission about 20 years ago I used to run 2/3 30w non-synthetic Pennzoil motor oil and 1/3 Arco graphite and it did very well. The manual said to use the same oil in the transmission as what's being used in the engine.
After reading all these posts I am going to continue using motor oil.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
The main consideration in manual transmissions as I see it is the recommended viscosity. Some transmissions are designed for low viscosity and some for high.
After getting the right viscosity it is a matter of which additives to use. By the way when I stopped using graphite as an additive in manual transmissions I switched to teflon.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 12,772
Likes: 17
From: Indianapolis IN
AMSOIL Synthetic Synchromesh Transmission Fluid (MTF) AMSOIL Synthetic Synchromesh Transmission Fluid (MTF) is specifically designed for manual transmissions and transaxles with synchromesh systems that require light viscosity, non-extreme pressure fortified oil. It is formulated with advanced additive technology to provide proper friction characteristics for smooth shifting without grinding or bump shifting, while providing the ultimate in gear and bearing protection. MTF provides far better protection in these manual transmissions than motor oils. AMSOIL Synthetic Synchromesh Transmission Fluid (MTF) contains friction modifiers for superior synchronizer compatibility and smooth shifting. It is non-corrosive to yellow metals, and its outstanding anti-wear properties protect gears and bearings under severe duty. MTF is anti-foam fortified and contains oxidation inhibitors to resist high temperatures, oxidation, acid buildup and varnish deposits.
AMSOIL Synthetic Synchromesh Transmission Fluid (MTF) is recommended for automotive and light truck applications that require synchromesh transmission fluid. Applications include manual transmissions and transaxles such as New Venture NV T350, NV 1500, NV 3500, NV 3550, NV 5600 and Tremec T-4, T-5, T-18, T-176, T-500 and T-600. Replaces Honda Genuine MTF Fluid for manual transaxles. MTF is an SAE 5W-30, however, it is not for use in engines or wet clutches. AMSOIL Synthetic Synchromesh Transmission Fluid (MTF) replaces GM part # 12345349, 12345577, 12377916 and 1052931 as well as Chrysler part # 4874464 and 4874465. It meets GM specifications 9985648, 9986105 and 9985535 and Chrysler MS-9224 and MS-9417.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,196
Likes: 0
From: Orlando FL
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Light or Regular Mayo? We only buy the Light stuff.
Camaro350z28 - Check the C4 FAQ on the forum here... the GM part number has changed for GM's fluid if you decide to go with that. I found that out when I went to do mine. I just used the GM fluid.
Camaro350z28 - Check the C4 FAQ on the forum here... the GM part number has changed for GM's fluid if you decide to go with that. I found that out when I went to do mine. I just used the GM fluid.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 22,209
Likes: 12
From: OBAMA IS HITLER
DO NOT USE THE CASTROL fluid in your ZF6 transmission.
ZFDOC lives in Arizona which has Disney World type weather compared with where I live in ohio. The Castrol BMW crap fluid takes time to warm up and still may never work right. I realize he has devoted his life to the ZF6, but, as a ZF6 user, I do not agree with his recommendation.
ZFDOC also told me I needed either my clutch hydraulics replaced/bled properly (which I did) or my transmission synchros rebuilt (at a cost of thousands of dollars) when I described to him the symptoms I had (grinded shifts, missed shifts under WOT runs, etc.). In some cases the gear lever would not move into the next gear during WOT type runs.
When I switched back to the proper GM pn 5w-30 factory fill all these problems disappeared.
I was going to buy a new transmission.
So the choice is yours:
Option A: Run with what GM factory engineers recommend you run with and no-ones complained here about missed shifts, grinded gears, etc.
Option B: Try risky BMW Castrol 10W-60 where some claim its great and others claim it can ruin your car.
Id rather try 'tried and true' option A. But thats just me. You'll do whatever you want.
ZFDOC lives in Arizona which has Disney World type weather compared with where I live in ohio. The Castrol BMW crap fluid takes time to warm up and still may never work right. I realize he has devoted his life to the ZF6, but, as a ZF6 user, I do not agree with his recommendation.
ZFDOC also told me I needed either my clutch hydraulics replaced/bled properly (which I did) or my transmission synchros rebuilt (at a cost of thousands of dollars) when I described to him the symptoms I had (grinded shifts, missed shifts under WOT runs, etc.). In some cases the gear lever would not move into the next gear during WOT type runs.
When I switched back to the proper GM pn 5w-30 factory fill all these problems disappeared.
I was going to buy a new transmission.
So the choice is yours:
Option A: Run with what GM factory engineers recommend you run with and no-ones complained here about missed shifts, grinded gears, etc.
Option B: Try risky BMW Castrol 10W-60 where some claim its great and others claim it can ruin your car.
Id rather try 'tried and true' option A. But thats just me. You'll do whatever you want.
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 60
Likes: 1
From: Finland , 1995 LT-4 P-1SC
Shc
Anyone used Mobilube 1 SHC 75W-90 synthetic transmission oil (requirement GL-4 and GL-5) ?? I used many years with Japan and German cars w/o problems. Now i have a Castrol TWS 10W-60 in my Vette, but i think it's too thick ?
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
Likes: 25
From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
And based on Pete K's posts about synthetic fluid in gear boxes, I'm not going to use it anyways, in any transmission.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,129
Likes: 1
From: Pasadena CA
Just before I duck the incoming rotten eggs I will admit I was watching one of the Horsepower TV shows on Speed this weekend (the one that's a 25 minute commerical) and this one they were trying out Royal Purple.
They had a LS1 Camaro (2001?) on a dyno that was putting down 302 at the wheels. I thought wow that's around LT4 numbers, this should be interesting..
They emptied all the lubricants, including the engine oil, and replaced with all Royal Purple brand oils. (the guy actuallly got his hand dirty at one point)
They dyno'd it again and it came out 310 something - a gain of 8 whp.
Well, that's what they showed on the show..
[ducks]
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,386
Likes: 2
From: San Angelo TX
AMSOIL Synthetic Synchromesh Transmission Fluid (MTF) AMSOIL Synthetic Synchromesh Transmission Fluid (MTF) is specifically designed for manual transmissions and transaxles with synchromesh systems that require light viscosity, non-extreme pressure fortified oil. It is formulated with advanced additive technology to provide proper friction characteristics for smooth shifting without grinding or bump shifting, while providing the ultimate in gear and bearing protection. MTF provides far better protection in these manual transmissions than motor oils. AMSOIL Synthetic Synchromesh Transmission Fluid (MTF) contains friction modifiers for superior synchronizer compatibility and smooth shifting. It is non-corrosive to yellow metals, and its outstanding anti-wear properties protect gears and bearings under severe duty. MTF is anti-foam fortified and contains oxidation inhibitors to resist high temperatures, oxidation, acid buildup and varnish deposits.
AMSOIL Synthetic Synchromesh Transmission Fluid (MTF) is recommended for automotive and light truck applications that require synchromesh transmission fluid. Applications include manual transmissions and transaxles such as New Venture NV T350, NV 1500, NV 3500, NV 3550, NV 5600 and Tremec T-4, T-5, T-18, T-176, T-500 and T-600. Replaces Honda Genuine MTF Fluid for manual transaxles. MTF is an SAE 5W-30, however, it is not for use in engines or wet clutches. AMSOIL Synthetic Synchromesh Transmission Fluid (MTF) replaces GM part # 12345349, 12345577, 12377916 and 1052931 as well as Chrysler part # 4874464 and 4874465. It meets GM specifications 9985648, 9986105 and 9985535 and Chrysler MS-9224 and MS-9417.
I'm starting to realize that there are more choices that are fine for our cars. They aren't testing any new fluids for this tranny but these are all the same properties as the old tried and true stuff except synthetic. Anyone running this AMSOIL with positive or negative results? How many miles on your tranny with this fluid?
