Aardwolf

From what I read in the other thread about this, it looked like you only need an oz or two of the eos per oil change. Also I read that the zinc doesn't help in the timing chain. There have been a few threads on this. One had the % of zinc in oils. Redline and Royal Purple had a lot. The eos had tons. You could have Blackstone labs or a simliar place test your oil for wear particles.

dchildress

I own a couple of oil change shops. While I am basically just a retailer, I am also a car nut. I acutally tell some customers to stop running synthetics. That said, here is my two cents....

1. You bought a Corvette, so I say spend the extra $15 and put synthetic in it.

2. LTX motors run hotter than most, so the higher temperature burn-off and flash points of synthetics will outperform conventional oil in hotter motors.

3. Synthetics are proven to add horsepower and fuel effeciency...albeit in small amounts. I saw on Horsepower TV a few weeks ago they changed the oil in the diff, trans, and engine on an LS1 Camaro to top brand synthetic for each unit and picked up like 8 horses on the dyno....magic of TV maybe?

4. Run what your engine oil cap OR your engine builder says. Follow what your owners manual says. My books say this (hard to follow) 89-92 DOHC 30 weight at 40 degrees or above, 10W30 for All Temps(preferred) 87-91 NON DOHC 30weight at 40 degrees or above, 10w30 at 0 degrees or above, 5w30 All Temps (preferred) 92-96 10w30 at 0 degrees or above, 5w30 preferred. 93-96 All Engines except 92 5.7L DOHC must use synthetic oil meeting GM requirement 4718M

5. Extended drain intervals....WELL, I might lose my franchise if I say this wrong....as in conventional oils, it is not the oil itself that breaks down it is the "additive package". Many believe if you could filter the gunk out of the oil and add a new "additive package" synthetic oils can go forever. With that in mind, follow your manufactures recommendations for SEVERE (always use severe) CONDITIONS for oil change intervals. As far as filters, remember there are not many makers of oil filters but HUNDREDS of filter brands. Champion Labs makes Valvoline filters and I believe 36 other brands.

6. IMHO - Short of racing, autocrossing, or very, abusive drivers....standard off the shelf name brand synthetic oils will be great for most of us on here....Valvoline SynPower and MaxLife Synthetic, Mobile 1, Quaker State Advanced Engine, Pennzoil Platinum, Castrol Syntec.

7. I use Valvoline MaxLife Synthetic in my 94 LT1 and my 99 Z71. The Vette has a slow leak at the mains and the MaxLife slowed 'em down. The Z has 192,000 miles and does not leak or burn a drop.


Just for fun.....

Copied from the AmSoil site without permission. http://www.enhancedsyntheticoil.com/...ubrication.htm

Ten Myths About Synthetic Lubrication


Myth #1: Synthetic motor oils damage seals.
Untrue. It would be foolhardy for lubricant manufacturers to build a product that is incompatible with seals. The composition of seals presents problems that both petroleum oils and synthetics must overcome. Made from elastomers, seals are inherently difficult to standardize.

Ultimately it is the additive mix in oil that counts. Additives to control seal swell, shrinkage and hardening are required, whether it be a synthetic or petroleum product that is being produced.

Myth #2: Synthetics are too thin to stay in the engine.

Untrue. In order for a lubricant to be classified in any SAE grade (10W-30, 10W-40, etc.) it has to meet certain guidelines with regard to viscosity ("thickness").

For example, it makes no difference whether it's 10W-40 petroleum or 10W-40 synthetic, at -25 degrees centigrade (-13F) and 100 degrees centigrade (212 degrees F) the oil has to maintain a standardized viscosity or it can't be rated a 10W-40.

Myth #3: Synthetics cause cars to use more oil.

Untrue. Synthetic motor oils are intended for use in mechanically sound engines, that is, engines that don't leak. In such engines, oil consumption will actually be reduced. First, because of the lower volatility of synlubes. Second, because of the better sealing characteristics between piston rings and cylinder walls. And finally, because of the superior oxidation stability (i.e. resistance of synthetics against reacting with oxygen at high temperatures.)

Myth #4: Synthetic lubricants are not compatible with petroleum.

Untrue. The synthesized hydrocarbons, polyalphaolefins, diesters and other materials that form the base stocks of high-quality name brand synthetics are fully compatible with petroleum oils. In the old days, some companies used untested ingredients that were not compatible, causing quality synlubes to suffer a bum rap. Fortunately, those days are long gone.

Compatibility is something to keep in mind, however, whether using petroleum oils or synthetics. It is usually best to use the same oil for topping off that you have been running in the engine. That is, it is preferable to not mix your oils, even if it is Valvoline or Quaker State you are using. The reason is this: the functions of additives blended for specific characteristics can be offset when oils with different additive packages are put together. For optimal performance, it is better to use the same oil throughout.

Myth #5: Synthetic lubricants are not readily available.

Untrue. This may have been the case two decades ago when AMSOIL and Mobil 1 were the only real choices, but today nearly every major oil company has added a synthetic product to their lines. This in itself is a testament to the value synthetics offer.

Myth #6: Synthetic lubricants produce sludge.

Untrue. In point of fact, synthetic motor oils are more sludge resistant than their petroleum counterparts, resisting the effects of high temperature and oxidation. In the presence of high temperatures, two things happen. First, an oil's lighter ingredients boil off, making the oil thicker. Second, many of the complex chemicals found naturally in petroleum basestocks begin to react with each other, forming sludges, gums and varnishes. One result is a loss of fluidity at low temperatures, slowing the timely flow of oil to the engine for vital component protection. Further negative effects of thickened oil include the restriction of oil flow into critical areas, greater wear and loss of fuel economy.

Because of their higher flash points, and their ability to withstand evaporation loss and oxidation, synthetics are much more resistant to sludge development.

Two other causes of sludge -- ingested dirt and water dilution -- can be a problem in any kind of oil, whether petroleum or synthetic. These are problems with the air filtration system and the cooling system respectively, not the oil.

Myth #7: Synthetics can't be used with catalytic converters or oxygen sensors.

Untrue. There is no difference between synthetic and petroleum oils in regards to these components. Both synthetic and petroleum motor oils are similar compounds and neither is damaging to catalytic converters or oxygen sensors.

Myth#8: Synthetics void warranties.

Untrue. No major manufacturer of automobiles specifically bans the use of synthetic lubricants. In point of fact, increasing numbers of high performance cars are arriving on showroom floors with synthetic motor oils as factory fill.

New vehicle warranties are based upon the use of oils meeting specific API Service Classifications (for example, SG/CE). Synthetic lubricants which meet current API Service requirements are perfectly suited for use in any vehicle without affecting the validity of the new car warranty. In point of fact, in the twenty-five years that AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants have been used in extended service situations, over billions of miles of actual driving, these oils have not been faulted once for voiding an automaker's warranty.

Myth #9: Synthetics last forever.

Untrue. Although some experts feel that synthetic basestocks themselves can be used forever, it is well known that eventually the additives will falter and cause the oil to require changing. Moisture, fuel dilution and acids (the by-products of combustion) tend to use up additives in an oil, allowing degradation to occur.

However, by "topping off", additives can be replenished. Through good filtration and periodic oil analysis, synthetic engine oils protect an engine for lengths of time far beyond the capability of non-synthetics.

Myth #10: Synthetics are too expensive.

Untrue. Tests and experience have proven that synthetics can greatly extend drain intervals, provide better fuel economy, reduce engine wear and enable vehicles to operate with greater reliability. All these elements combine to make synthetic engine oils more economical than conventional non-synthetics.

BADDUCK

The problem synthetic addicts have is they lump all C4's, and all vehicles for that matter, together without regard to vehicle history or manufactures original requirements. Using a shaming remark to try and win a convert is just wrong. Most people, even knowledgable car people, aren't willing to keep up with the petroleum industry. Hell, I don't blame them it's boring. Buy a motor oil based on invidual requirements and manufacturer recommendations and don't listen to the snakeoil salesmen.

flynams

Let me throw a monkey wrench in the fire....the previous owner of my 90 vert switched to WalMart brand synthetic...his rational? The synthetic cost the same as a name brand dino oil and would be better for the same money....it has 96K now with 41K on the cheap synthetic...I am continuing to use it in this car because my grandpa told me 40 years ago not to switch oils!!!!hahahah...no problems now and I don't want to make any

dchildress

I hear this one all the time. The trick is to find out who makes the WalMart brand. I have customers that don't care what we pour in as long as it is what the cap says. I have others that don't want "that Valvocrap" and say "gimme some of dat caster oil!!!". I had a salesman (so grain of salt please) tell me once that if you took the top 5 oils, put them into 5 pans and boiled them down there is less than 3% difference in the 5. Franchise protection again....but we have been told you can go from brand to brand and conventional to synthetic to semi-synthetic to conventional without causing damage. IMHO, I like to stick to one. I might just be biased though....

89er

This looks good to me - just be prepared to change the catalytic converter more often since zinc breaks down the catalyst - and is probably why it says racing only.


http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?Product=95


Valvoline Synthetic Racing Oil is designed for racing application only.

Contains increased amounts of zinc for extra engine protection.

BADDUCK

Valvoline Synthetic RACING Oil is designed for racing applications?

Excuse me but....DUH!

rocco16

1. Highly debatable.
2. Unarguable.
3. Probably true enough.
5. Never heard a synthetic make that claim....not even AMSOIL.

I'd still stick with a synthetic.

Larry
code5coupe

SharkBit

wow, ive sparked quite the discussion. keep it up though, interesting to read....

dchildress

I am not sure and will look into it,but I was told that not too long ago gasoline motor oil had a high sulphated ash content and on vehicles that had a lot of blow-by or leaky valve seals that ash would "clog" up some convertors, thus causing that nasty rotten egg smell when motor got very hot.

I have a couple of customers that run Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme 5w40 diesel oil in their cars (one LT1 TransAm with a ProCharger, one 96 LT4 Vette). I ran it in my own 94 LT1 for a short while until Valvoline came out with the MaxLife full synthetic. It has an SL rating to be used in gasoline engines.
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...sp?product=113


I honestly cannot say if diesel oils are helpful or harmful in a gas motor. Diesel oils have higher zinc and sulphated ash content than gasoline oils.

Hell, I even have customers that run 15w40 Shell Rotella in their gas motors; manufacturers recommendations be damned.

89er

DUH yourself, it says racing only. Race cars don't usually worry about damaging the catalytic converter.

89er

I've used diesel oils for a long time on my gasoline engines. The average diesel engine works much harder than the average gasoline engine.

Now that they're putting catalytic converters on diesel the zinc, etc. are going to be reduced on them as well.

BADDUCK

89er

ok, so you need help. I'll try...

Oil with extra zinc is for 'racing applications only' because some of the extra zinc makes its way into the exhaust and breaks down the catalyst that makes your catalytic converter work. You would need some chemistry knowledge to understand.

Suffice it to say if the catalytic conveter fails to operate properly, you will not pass emissions if you live in a place that requires them.

You conveniently left out the 'only' in racing applcations and changed the meaning of what I said.

BADDUCK

Thank you for the explanation. It was way to technical for me, but I will be reading up on my chemical stuff. My point was that most people would assume racing oil was only for racing but I guess it really is not all that obvious to some. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers.

cv67

The old EOS is now assembly lube as far as I know.

GREGGPENN

Add zinc, don't add zinc. Zinc's bad for the cc. This is confusing. I was thinking zinc was hard on seals. And, that the extended (lack of) wear on your motor was offset by the accelerated degeneration of seals. In other words, your motor might laster longer, but you'd have to take it apart to replace seals MORE often. For racers, this isn't an issue.

If you can link to a statement supporting this, I'd appreciate it. I see that the Valvoline says racing only but I didn't see that the zinc was the reason.

I was thinking that zinc was one of the main ingredients to the aftermarket products like Slick50 and ZMax. Does this topic say those products would "destroy" the cc?

gp

GREGGPENN

I thought the MaxLife products were dino oils. They make a synthetic version too? Do MaxLife products do something differently to treat/swell older seals?

I tried 5w-30 Mobil 1 about 7 yrs ago. In 1999, my vette had less than 20k miles -- but the seals were 10 yrs old. The synthetic burned up and/or leaked out faster. I used a quart within a few weeks. Next change I went to 10w-40 dino Mobil. The oil use stopped. I was not certain of the prior owners oil selection -- but they did go to the dealer. And, I think 1989's had synthetic recommended, right?

Your myths said sythetics don't leak more, hurt seals etc.... But, I never understood how I used more synthetic oil -- if this weren't true!

I also thought I read a thread (in here) a year/two ago that stated individual molecules of synthetic oil were smaller than dino oils. And, even though viscosity ratings were correct, the oils did perform differently on a "molecular" level.....?????

Finally, as for extending drain intervals...I'm leary of extending the period for leaving the extra carbon, dirt, metal particles, water, antifreeze, etc... that gets into oil. In other words, I favor changing oil -- simply to clean it -- more often. Even if synthetics last longer and break down less readily, I don't buy they keep contamination away.

gp

89er

Here is a link on the cc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter

Catalyst poisoning and deactivation

Common catalyst poisons are lead, sulfur, zinc, manganese, silicon and phosphorus.

Zinc, phosphorus and sulfur originate from lubricant antiwear additives such as ZDDP; sulfur and manganese primarily originate from fuel impurities or from additives such as Methylcyclopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl (MMT), respectively.

dchildress

Valvoline came out with a full synthetic MaxLife about a year ago ( http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...sp?product=101 ). I sell it like CRAZY. I actually have a lot of SynPower customers that have switched to it.

The myth that synthetic oils cause more leaks is not true. You are correct in the statement that synthetic molecules are smaller. In fact, synthetic base stock molecules are all the SAME size, where dino oil molecules are all different. So, yes, oil of same viscosity do perform differently on a molecular level depending on if base stock is dino refined or synthetically refined. If you have a small leak and run conventional oil only the smaller oil molecules make it out. If all the molecules are the same size(synthetic), they all have the potential to leak, thus making it appear you have made your oil leak worse when in fact you haven't. This holds true with rings, seals, and gaskets. Valvoline's MaxLife products are made to help restore gaskets and seals to slow down and reduce oil leakage.

I change oil for a living...about 80 to 100 cars a day so I have oil on my ALL the damn time. If you ever get the chance, get some Dixie cups and pour different oils in the cups, stick your fingers in and then rub them together. I make new employees do this. I am to the point I can feel difference in 5w30 Conventional, DuraBlend (semi synthetic) and Synpower (full synthetic). I cannot hardly feel differences between 10w30 & 5w30 but can 5w30 and 20w50. They look different, feel different, and smell different. I can usually pick out synthetic and diesel oils.

As far as extended oil drain intervals.....I charge $47.99 for a Synpower or MaxLife full synthetic oil change. Seems like cheap protection to me every 3,000 miles; more if you race, autocross, idle a lot, or just plain beat your car. Cummins recommends 10,000mile intervals if you run our Premium Blue Extreme 5w40 full synthetic diesel oil in their engines for light trucks (Dodge Ram) and during testing of this oil they ran it 100,000 miles between changes on an undiclosed fleet of OTR semi trucks. Keep in mind those engines hold GALLONS vs. our quarts. Mobile extended life oils (Mobil 5000) have more detergents and other additives to let you go the extra mileage, but I believe the oil costs almost as much as Valvoline synthetic.