An electric motor is about $50.00 and easy to install. I still have the original motor, it's 19 years old. The alternator will spin regardless of the output and always wear out at the same rate. I did install the 160 degree thermostat for added HP.

 

That's works for you and others use a different method to keep their engines running cool. What works in a warm climate will not work during a cold winter. I see you modified your cooling system. Even with your 41% improvement in coolant flow it still gets to 238 in traffic. That can lead to shortened engine life. I would try to improve that system. Here is a very interesting link that should educate you somewhat. http://www.thirdgen.org/cool

 

I think your the only one laughing. I am very well educated.

 

My 85 the fan kicks on at 204 and off @ 194

 

Main fan should come on at approx. 225 still, but I know the aux changed settings in later years.

Trust me, he is the only one. He posts the same stuff every time this comes up.

 

if oil is too close to breakdown temp, run synthetic oil if that will make u feel more comfy

 

Fan motors have brushes in them and the brushes have a finite life. The motor life is shortened if it runs most of the time and who wants to keep replacing fan motors all the time at $50 each? Your motor is 19 years old because you don't drive your vette very often. I drive mine, and every one of the 4 vettes I have owned every day. Also, alternators also have brushes in them and they wear out, AND the higher the current an alternator delivers, the higher temperature it runs at and the lower is its life. The main fan motor draws 14 amps.
Over the years in C4 tech, we have had 2 posters that bothered to measure HP with stock and the 160 stat and neither found any difference in HP. We have also had a number of posters show HP vs engine temp from motor oil companies that showed increasing HP with increasing engine temps. The inlet air temp is only one factor that affects engine HP, there are other factors that are more significant, like thermal efficiency.
Also, my engine never sees 238 F. The only time it did was when my mechanic purposely let it idle to confirm that it would stay within safe temps and it would rise to 238, fan comes on, temp dropped to 211 and the fan would go off. I have never sat at a stoplight long enough for my main fan to come on in the hottest summer day.

 

i actually have a 160thermostat in my 96vette...i like it..car runs really cool...my car funs about 163 for awhile but when i come to a light it goes to about 190...thats cuz my fans arent tuned or anythin...but my trick on that to get it back down is...if you drive for for a nice crusin speed for about 3miles the car get real cool back to 163....but anywayz my normal temp before the thermorstat was about 207-220 or so an now i run 60degress cooler...now how much performance do you think id get from the car...an wat about in the 1/4 mile..will it give me any tenths of a second??

 

My Vette stays about 165 degrees on the freeway and will climb to about 180 in traffic. So the fan is not on constantly. If I get stuck in traffic, It will get to about 195 degrees with the AC on in 100 degree weather. That is the hottest I have ever seen it since I did this modification to the cooling system. Yes, the fan motor's life will be shortened a little. Eckler's has them for $65.00 and I have seen them for as little as $50.00. I doubt that the alternators life will be shortened. An alternator is about $100.00 and I can change one in 20 minutes. So to me, fan motors and alternators are no big deal. How much does it cost to replace a head gasket or your engine? What you are saying about hot air not adversely affecting HP defies scientific fact. I guess because you live in Ohio you should keep your engine hot. You need a heater, a 160 thermostat is not good for your area. I have no need for a heater. Did you look at the link? http://www.thirdgen.org/cool Some people cannot be educated!

 

I use it all the time.

 

It will add some HP. How much I don't know, depends on the temps.

 

This is so far from the truth its not even funny.

Not everyone lives in Ohio where it gets bitter cold all winter.

I ran a 160 thermostat on my 85 for the 9 years I owned it. I also installed the brass fan switch in the head that kicked the fan on at 205. I lived in Arkansas where it gets plenty cold in the winter. I never once had a problem with my heat not working nor did my fan run all the time.

If you think a low fan temp switch isnt needed in some places, Come down to florida and idle your car in traffic on a 95 degree day with the AC on.

 

We get 95 F temperatures in Ohio in the summer but not as many as FL! With your A/C on and sitting at a stoplight, your coolant temp is not only way above 160 F. it will be above the origninal thermostat opening temp. For my 87, that is 195 F. In BOTH cases, a 160 and a 195 stat will be WIDE open and the thermostat can no longer maintain the coolant temp. In this situation, your 160 stat does absolutely nothing for cooling your engine, it is wide open and provides cooling no better than the original thermostat which will also be wide open. Why can't you see that?

 

Not only that, the cooler stat prolongs warm ups. This can add up over time, especially if your drives aren't long enough to evaporate the acids and moisture out of your oil. Too cool running requires longer drives to purge the contaminants.

Less power is gained from a too cool engine, for daily driving, than is lost running the fan needlessly. 'Scuse me. I have to go out to my car and empty the ice cube tray.

RACE ON!!!

 

No it is not the same....

From the GM manual for 1996...

"the PCM will cammand low speed fans ON at 219F and OFF at 207F and, high speed ON at 228F and OFF at 214F"

....when relay 1 is energized both fans run in low speed, when all three relays are energized both fans run at high speed...

also fans run with a/c on

 

Well if the fan doesn't shut off til 185-190 a 195 therm is going to be counter productive. I could have gone with a 170 unit from Hypertech but why pay $20+shipping for a thermostat when I can one at the local parts store for $10?

I know well how a thermostat works...I never said I couldn't see it. But to your point of it being bad for the motor....Its hard to say that my 9 years and 100k miles with a 160 degree stat was hard on my motor. Especially since it would run even or pull with my 97 Z28 6speed from a roll...my 85 was stock with a gutted cat and borla cat back. It ran very well.

 

How do you loose power in an engine that is "too cool"? I always believed that cold air is good for building HP. At what degree does air become "too cool"? Also regarding your comment about contaminated oil. Is that true for synthetic oil?

 

Yes, contaminates collect in ALL motor oils in all types off vehicles including water vapor. Reaching burnoff temperature helps eliminate some of these contaminates. At sea level water boils at 212F so this is an issue. This is why short trips are considered severe service conditions. It's also why hollding the temperature too low is not a good idea.

 

Getting back to your original questions....

The 88 Factory Manual specifies that the 88 ECM for the L-98 kicks the main fan on at 226*F and the aux. fan (if you have one) at 228*F. The dash temp readout is from a different sensor than that used by the ECM, and the different years were set-up slightly different, so the above two values are correct for most stock early L-98 C4s, plus or minus a few degrees.

While 215*F seems hot to a lot of people, it is normal. Even for much earlier vehicles. Pressure caps and anti-freeze have been used in cars like my 67 Camaro, going back well more than 40 years. This is so that the coolant temp can rise above 212*F without boiling. Water boils at 212*F (100*C) at sea level pressure (14.7lbs/sq. in.) Adding anti-freeze increases the boiling point some, and increasing the pressure in the cooling system increases it even more. That is part of why you still use anti-freeze in Hawaii and SoCal. With a proper radiator pressure cap and 50-50 mix of anti-freeze, your coolant shouldn't boil until above 265*F or more. By that time, the ECM should shut the car down due to excessive heat. By letting the temp rise above 195*F and up to 226*+/- GM is ensuring that combustion moisture and contaminents are burned off as much as possible and that the vehicle meets emmission standards.

Multi-grade motor oil is measured for viscosity based upon its flow and other aspects at two SAE determined temps. For a 5W-30 oil the winter grade of 5W is determined by the oil's viscosity at 0*F, and the upper grade 30, is determined by its viscosity at 212*F. You aren't even geting to proper oil operating viscosity temp as measured by the SAE tests until the oil hits 212*F. That is in part why others have posted about low temp operation being potentially harmful to your engine over the long run. It was designed to run at 195*F and above. My 88 usually runs an oil temp about 10* hotter that the coolant temp. At a coolant temp of 195*F the oil is at 215*F. Is it just a coincidence that oil upper visocsities are tested at 212*F and I'm within 3* of that value? I won't argue the point as few will ever change their opinions on what thermostat to use, but based upon my last statement, I feel that running with a thermostat set 30*~35* lower than design temp is not prudent. YMMV

The C4 was engineered with a reliable and efficient cooling system from the factory. If there is one significnat flaw, it is that the system easily accumulates a LOT of road debris behind the a/c condeneser and in front of the radiator. The debris hampers cooling and very large amounts of debris cannot be seen unless you remove the radiator shroud. The 85 L-98 is similar to the 88. Using simple hand tools, in just over 4 hours one Saturday morning, I removed my radiator, cleaned it inside and out, carefully rebent all fins, reinstalled, refilled, and purged. It has been running just fine in our 105*F summer days without problem.

 

You need to do some reading about how internal combustion engines work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, colder inlet air is more dense and it causes an engine to be able to produce higher HP (At wide open throttle. What percent of the time you are driving your car is your throttle wide open?)

The biggest effect on engine HP is the amount of heat that the engine cooling system eliminates. IC engines run on HEAT, they convert BTU/hr into HP. Engines transfer heat from the burning fuel inside the cylinders into the coolant which is carried away and transferred to the air in the radiator. The rate of heat transfer is directly proportional to the difference in temperature between the burning fuel and the cylinder wall. So, the lower your coolant temperature is, the more heat (that is, HORSEPOWER) is transferred to the coolant. Lowering the coolant temp reduces the heat available inside the cylinder and therefore the HP. The loss due to heat transfer to the coolant FAR overrides the gain due to an increase in the air inlet density.