Internal Ballance, flywheel question, 383 LT4
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 536
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From: Bardstown Kentucky
Internal Ballance, flywheel question, 383 LT4
As some of you guys may know I am building a 383 LT4. It is going to be complete internal balance. I know I cant run the dual mass fly wheel the way it is or it will vibrate. My question is can you remove the weights from the flywheel and make it work?
I know about using a neutral balance Camaro flywheel. What are some good combos going this route? Since there is not a kit for this.
I know about using a neutral balance Camaro flywheel. What are some good combos going this route? Since there is not a kit for this.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 13,911
Likes: 101
From: Manassas VA
NoVa Events Coordinator
St. Jude Donor '14
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES you can Zero balance a dual mass... I'm using such a flywheel.
flip over a dual mass can will see the large weight that was added. Just remove that and check the balance. Should be VERY VERY VERY CLOSE to Zero / Neutral. Then add weight were need to the outer edge holes and you have a perfectly neutraly balance DM flywheel...
flip over a dual mass can will see the large weight that was added. Just remove that and check the balance. Should be VERY VERY VERY CLOSE to Zero / Neutral. Then add weight were need to the outer edge holes and you have a perfectly neutraly balance DM flywheel...
Last edited by Bluewasp; May 14, 2007 at 04:25 PM.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 536
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From: Bardstown Kentucky
Ok now that I know I can use the DM flywheel, mine has about 50,000 miles on it, and looks pretty glazed up along with the pressure plate. I have read that you can not resurface these. When you guys make them neutral are you using new or your old flywheel?
Also, the 2 halves of my flywheel rotate separate of each other a few degrees and then stops. Is this normal?
Also, the 2 halves of my flywheel rotate separate of each other a few degrees and then stops. Is this normal?
Racer
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver B.C.
I had mine resurfaced at the same time as the milling/ballancing.
All info I searched out told me that it COULD NOT be done without some 'special' equiptment (don't ask me....I'm not a machinist). I had it done anyways. (My machinist was worried about the movement between the two plates and claimed 'he'd try, no guarantees'...reasonable warning I surmised)
It all worked out ok though.
All info I searched out told me that it COULD NOT be done without some 'special' equiptment (don't ask me....I'm not a machinist). I had it done anyways. (My machinist was worried about the movement between the two plates and claimed 'he'd try, no guarantees'...reasonable warning I surmised)
It all worked out ok though.
Last edited by Carpenter; May 14, 2007 at 11:56 PM.
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Racer
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver B.C.
Mine had 60 k. Even though I couldn't manually 'move' it more than....say.....one degree.....the machine torque/stone friction would have concievably 'moved' it a few more degrees? By my thinking....so long as the entire plates remained TRUE to his table (and that his machine oil wouldn't degrade the rubber shock between the plates)....the grind would remain 'true' to the crank mounting.
My other choice aside from buying a new DM flywheel (which would STILL need machining/ballancing) was to go with a SM cast or aluminum. I considered that...but my ZF had previousely been SO noisy (twice, guys pulled me over to check out my blower!
).............(I am NA, btw)....
Anyways, I lucked out. The machining worked great.....plus for some strange reason my ZF quieted down after I re-installed it. (It MUST have been mis-aligned or something? Perhaps bad throw-out on the old clutch? Dunno, really.)
Anyways, that's been my experience.
My other choice aside from buying a new DM flywheel (which would STILL need machining/ballancing) was to go with a SM cast or aluminum. I considered that...but my ZF had previousely been SO noisy (twice, guys pulled me over to check out my blower!
).............(I am NA, btw).... Anyways, I lucked out. The machining worked great.....plus for some strange reason my ZF quieted down after I re-installed it. (It MUST have been mis-aligned or something? Perhaps bad throw-out on the old clutch? Dunno, really.)Anyways, that's been my experience.
Last edited by Carpenter; May 14, 2007 at 11:58 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,183
Likes: 3
From: Santa Maria, CA
There is no "rubber shock plate" between the two masses.
There is however a thin metal flange that can be bent.
I took mine apart to see what was in there once and for all.
There is only light oil as a film in there, just to keep the spring lubed.
Before I found this forum in 2000(I lurked for a few months ), I had a local shop do the clutch. Unbenounced to me,they turned the FW.
The cutting fluid used when resurfacing could get in between the 2 masses.
They had wrapped rags between the 2 masses so as to prevent the fluid from getting in there.
The car worked fine.
There is however a thin metal flange that can be bent.
I took mine apart to see what was in there once and for all.
There is only light oil as a film in there, just to keep the spring lubed.
Before I found this forum in 2000(I lurked for a few months
), I had a local shop do the clutch. Unbenounced to me,they turned the FW. The cutting fluid used when resurfacing could get in between the 2 masses.
They had wrapped rags between the 2 masses so as to prevent the fluid from getting in there.
The car worked fine.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 13,911
Likes: 101
From: Manassas VA
NoVa Events Coordinator
St. Jude Donor '14
Ok now that I know I can use the DM flywheel, mine has about 50,000 miles on it, and looks pretty glazed up along with the pressure plate. I have read that you can not resurface these. When you guys make them neutral are you using new or your old flywheel?
Also, the 2 halves of my flywheel rotate separate of each other a few degrees and then stops. Is this normal?
Also, the 2 halves of my flywheel rotate separate of each other a few degrees and then stops. Is this normal?
I bought a new one. Less chance of issues later on....
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 536
Likes: 0
From: Bardstown Kentucky
I just called a local clutch company and I told them my situation. The guy told me he could resurface the flywheel but did not think he could balance it, even with the weight removed to make it neutral. He said since the 2 halfs move he didnt think it would work.....Anyone
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 13,911
Likes: 101
From: Manassas VA
NoVa Events Coordinator
St. Jude Donor '14
Contact George Coleman and tell him Robert from Northern Virginia told you to call about balancing a DM flywheel. He did one for me about 2 months ago.
Coleman Automotive Machine Shop
White Marsh, VA 23183-0000
(804) 693-3632
As for resurfacing: I would talk to ZF DOC www.zfdoc.com or Tom at Carolina Clutch.
Good luck.
Robert
Coleman Automotive Machine Shop
White Marsh, VA 23183-0000
(804) 693-3632
As for resurfacing: I would talk to ZF DOC www.zfdoc.com or Tom at Carolina Clutch.
Good luck.
Robert
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
Likes: 45
From: San Pedro CA
I just called a local clutch company and I told them my situation. The guy told me he could resurface the flywheel but did not think he could balance it, even with the weight removed to make it neutral. He said since the 2 halfs move he didnt think it would work.....Anyone
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 536
Likes: 0
From: Bardstown Kentucky
I looked at my dual mass last night and I believe the counter weight is made to the flywheel. There are a bunch of numbered holes around the outside of the flywheel. One of them has a weight driven into it. I think I am just going to go with the Camaro flywheel.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 390
Likes: 0
From: St. Louis MO
Had my DM zero balanced by a local machine shop (383 build) - he removed the cast weight (machining operation), left the balance weights in the flywheel and zero balanced the entire assembly to within .4 grams.....car runs very smoothly. He did NOT resurface the flywheel, however.
