Well, the Vette in my sig is down for the count. I pulled the heads to replace the head gaskets and the #6 cylinder wall was cracked. The motor has 155k miles on it, so it is about time for a rebuild/new engine anyway. I know I can have that cylinder sleeved, but I really don't want to go that route. Ok, let's say I have enough money to buy a ZZ4 crate motor from my local Chevy dealer for $3200 ($3129 is the exact price). Let's set that as my budget, $3200. I've already researched all the things I will have to do to it to work in my car and I realize I will have some left over parts (distributor, intake, balancer). I can hopefully sell those and maybe offset the cost some. The ZZ4 would be an upgrade in almost every department over what I have now; 4 bolt mains, forged steel crank, PM rods, hyper pistons, aluminum heads, etc. That and it has a 12 month/12k mile warranty.

So what would you guys do? Get a rebuilt motor? ZZ4? Somthing else? Opinions are welcomed/needed! TIA... :cheers:

 

How about a bigger motor ? 383, 396, 408, or for really big torque 420.

Don't bother getting your original block sleeved. Save it in case people start wanting matching numbers in their C4s.

 

That all sounds awesome. A stroked Vette would be killer! :D But is that possible within the budget? Thanks for the quick response! Keep em comin'...

 

Any more takers??

 

Yeah, I've got an opinion on this.

I'm putting in an Speed-O-Motive 383 in my '86 right now. I chose this 383 longblock over a ZZ4 because it was initially cheaper ($2700 including shipping) and it made more power. There are some extra costs involved with installing a 383 though-->an external balance 153T flywheel, small diameter external balance balancer, bigger fuel injectors, a new PROM, and etc. You may also want to upgrade the stock intake which is an expensive thing to do.

Another thing: my local dealer told me that the ZZ4 doesn't have a warranty since it's a high performance motor and not a stock replacement.

If you really want to go the cheap route I would buy one of GM's inexpensive stock replacement 350 shortblocks, AFR heads, and an LPE 219 cam. You could make a lot more power than stock and retain still the GM warranty. :)

 

I put a ZZ4 in my car 2 years ago. The engine lasted almost a year and 5000 miles. I spun 3 main bearings. One dealer I took the car to said they would fix it under warranty. Another dealer said they wouldn't. Go figure. I decided that it wouldn't be worth it for me to return it to the same ZZ4 power level if I had to go through with taking out the engine and putting it back in and such so that's why I had my motor built to what it is now. Take a look at my web site for more info on that. I think I wasted some serious money on the ZZ4. I would consider something like JMR is doing before going with a ZZ4. There are other things to consider when doing a 383, too. If you are going to do any serious racing you will most likely need a new aluminum radiator, and a oil cooler, another $1000. If you have a auto tranny you will likely destroy a Dana36 and will need to go with the Dana44 rear end. For that matter the 700r4 with 150,000 miles won't last long either so you will need a better tranny. It all works together as a unit and if you change one part it will have an effect on the rest of the parts. If you go some high horsepower with a good 383 you will need to upgrade the brakes, there goes another $1000. So, what about considering a cheap 350, maybe even a salvage yard low miler, plop it in and sell the car. Then buy a C5. Do the math, they aren't that far off. You can get a '97 for under $30,000 pretty easily. When I think about all the money I put in my car I wish I woulda considered that alternative. I do have fun whoopin on the C5's tho, hahahaahaha.

 

another route to consider is finding a wrecked low mileage 85-91 in a junk yard. Probably get the engine for under $1000. The yard will usually let you check it out (compression, etc) and sometimes you can even run the engine. It's a bit risker, but cheaper route.

BTW, do you have any idea what caused the block to crack?

good luck


[Modified by ralph, 12:59 PM 10/25/2001]

 

Hey, thanks for the great replys!! :cool:

jmr302: Not to scare you, but I've actually heard a few horror stories about Speed-o-Motive. Here is one thread from cz28.com: Speedomotive. Here is one from nastyz28.com: Speeodmotive. I think I'll stay away from them for now. Also, I'm 99.9% sure the ZZ4 has a warranty. My dealer and all the web pages I have checked said they do as long as they aren't internally modified(cam, rockers, etc.).

Bob86ZZ4: I guess I forgot to mention some stuff. The car is an auto. I just had the tranny rebuilt about two years ago. Just a few months after I had it rebuilt, I bought a '95 Firehawk (sorry guys, :D ) and I didn't really drive the Vette all that much. The Firehawk was a six speed, what can I say? So the tranny essentially still has a fresh rebuild with a B&M shift kit. The rearend could pose some problems though. A C5 would be an absolute dream, and I fear that's what it will remain for a while longer. A 92-94 6 speed Vette would make me very happy, though. :yesnod:

ralph: I'm not sure what exactly caused the cylinder wall to crack. The reason I figured I needed to change my head gaskets was because upon applying air pressure to one of the passenger side cylinders to change the valve seals, I could hear bubbles coming up to the radiator. That means either a cracked/warped head or head gaskets. I was hoping for just gaskets. After I got the heads off, I was looking at the cylinders and one had a crack about 2-2.5" long. :cry No telling how long it had been like that.

Thanks again, folks...

 

You should be able to build a stout 383 stoker short block (Scat cast crank, forged rods and pistons for under $3200, including assembly, cam, & used block as a core. Most of "take off" ZZ4 parts are pretty cheap, if you think your going make much money of off them.

 

How much power do you want? Buy the vortec head 330 hp crate motor and the vortec intake for tpi from scroggin Dickey chevrolet (about $1000 less than the ZZ4 motor) and use the rest of your budget to buy a set of headers and some other go fast goodies. Is Paul Vanderly still building motors over there on the Mississippi Gulf Coast?


[Modified by HWoods, 5:28 PM 10/25/2001]

 

How radical are you looking to get. This place has a few options. http://www.allchevyengines.com

 

dgoodhue: What about what jmr302 and Bob86ZZ4 said about going stroked? All the extra stuff needed to compliment it would probably add up pretty quick.

HWoods: Your idea sounds really good. Maybe get the plenum ported, some aftermarket runners to open up the breathing a bit. About Vanderly, his shop is somewhat shut down. I'm not sure if he still building engines or not. There is another local guy named Keith Young. Heard of him?

Thumper: Those allchevyengines guys have some cheap prices under the Specials sections. Pros, cons with these guys? Any one have any experience with them?

Again, you all have been great help...

 

I would not hessitate to sleeve the cylinder. It costs about $100. I had to have 2 cylinders sleeved in my block due to melting them. Cheapest route is to rebuilt it. Depends on your budget and what you want out of the setup.

 

Well, I went the ZZ4 option cause of the $3200 cost and wound up well over 10k. Then again I put alot of extras on while I was at it, cause I could. And YES you would have a warranty. Here is what I would do over again: a ZZ4 shortblock, a set of AFR heads, reuse my stock intake and plenumn runners. Maybe get the injectors cleaned at cruzin performance. Feel free to email me on any questions related to my swap.

 

corvette1990: That too sounds like a good idea. Are the times in your sig really that "bad" because of traction?? It seems with all of your mods, you would be a lot faster. Just curious.

 

vette92 -

You would spend the money to have an engine sleeved and then bore it .030 knowing one cylinder had cracked :confused: ??? I think I'd stay away from a block that had cracked anywhere. All the reasons I can think of for the cracking would preclude me from using the block - thin cylinder walls, crack from freezing, crack from thermal cycling.

85z51vette -

One thing to consider before rebuilding the motor. It will cost you more than you think because you'll want to fix more stuff on the car as you go along. There's no point in putting stuff back on the engine and car if you know its falling apart and will come off in the near future.

So...

In addition to the motor, you will probably want:

new motor mounts
injectors
waterpump
starter
transmission
driveshaft u-joints
distributor
radiator
thermostat
belts
hoses
harmonic balancer
rocker arms (?)
fuel pump
roller lifters
roller cam
programming

You may have replaced some of this stuff already but if you haven't you'll want to.

If you go with a stroker, start with a roller block and then decide on how big you want to go. A larger than stock engine will cost you more money but not that much depending upon the parts you use. Strokers require non stock pistons (extra 200 ) and a larger crankshaft (275 extra or more). You'll probably want better rods so 250 to 550. You'll have to recondition your stock rods if you don't buy new ones. Recondiitoning is about 130 - 150. You can get an LT4 rod set for 240.

An approximate budget for a 396 would be:

roller block 100 (used)
rotating assy 1350 (cast crank, forged rods, forged pistons, rings, bearings)
block machine 450 (bore, clearance for stoker, leak testing)
work
balancing 175
Gaskets 150
Heads 1000+ ( this is the most exp single part
rockers 250 (roller
pushrods 75
headbolts 80 (needed for new heads)
cam 175 (LT4 hot cam)
Timing chain 50
Oil pump 40
lifters 170 (include retainer)

Approx 4150

You'll need to get a better induction system to get the most out of the motor but that can wait.

If you can live with 355 hp, I would go with the ZZ4. You'll still need a better intake for max performance but you get the whole motor from pan to the distributor and waterpump for a price close to the cost of rebuilding yours. Maybe less. :hat :hat :hat :hat :hat

 

Aqua: I see you are a stroker enthusiast. :D I really wish I had the money to do that and do it right. Right now I'm in college, bringing in ~$900 a month. Bills, bills, bills... :cry So what I am really looking for is the best bang for around $3200-3500. The only reason I'm gonna have that much to spend is I'm selling my '78 CJ-5 for hopefully $3000-4,000. I hate that TPI is such a bottleneck. Oh for a mini-ram...

Thanks again...

 

Consider this, I am building a 4 bolt main 360 with scat crank , good rods and 10-1 pistons for less than $2000, I can help you out with a good machine shop if you are interested. I can also get you a custom ground roller cam with lifters for about $250. :yesnod: