OOpps, thanks for the correction....
Must be the new keyboard...:o
engine temps and emissions control
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,328
Likes: 14
From: Stafford Connecticut
To cool of an engine temp will cause your engine to run less efficiently and cause more wear on your motor.To hot can also cause the same thing.The car makers because of pollution standards have to make their cars run just on the edge of detonation to meet these standards .Our trick is to find a happy medium.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 171
From: Dublin CA
Looks like the Feds are running things again. The vast majority of us that have and maintain Corvettes keep our cars well tuned and perform maintenance prior to "recommended schedules". I don't feel that we fall into that catagory of Polluters. To have paragraphs of legal BS to define the parameters of a thermostat is insane.
The restrictions that the Feds have placed on cars actually restrict their maintenance for those that can't financially afford to keep a car up to standards. It used to be that you could keep your car "tuned" with new plugs, points, condenser and wires for under $75.00. And could keep this fine tuned every 4-6 months by checking timing etc. Now with all the electronic sensors, the common man can't do these things themselves any more. To take it to a shop is now several hundred dollars. So it doesn't get to the shop.....they just keep running it until it shuts down or they have to go in for their smog every two years. Unless it is blowing oil smoke bad it is still on the road.
Each year we have law makers continue to make new laws when there are already provisions in place, but perhaps uninforced. We should be REDUCING laws, not making new ones or defining the temperature parameters of a thermostat.
The restrictions that the Feds have placed on cars actually restrict their maintenance for those that can't financially afford to keep a car up to standards. It used to be that you could keep your car "tuned" with new plugs, points, condenser and wires for under $75.00. And could keep this fine tuned every 4-6 months by checking timing etc. Now with all the electronic sensors, the common man can't do these things themselves any more. To take it to a shop is now several hundred dollars. So it doesn't get to the shop.....they just keep running it until it shuts down or they have to go in for their smog every two years. Unless it is blowing oil smoke bad it is still on the road.
Each year we have law makers continue to make new laws when there are already provisions in place, but perhaps uninforced. We should be REDUCING laws, not making new ones or defining the temperature parameters of a thermostat.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 3
From: Citrus Heights California
Looks like the Feds are running things again. The vast majority of us that have and maintain Corvettes keep our cars well tuned and perform maintenance prior to "recommended schedules". I don't feel that we fall into that catagory of Polluters. To have paragraphs of legal BS to define the parameters of a thermostat is insane.
The restrictions that the Feds have placed on cars actually restrict their maintenance for those that can't financially afford to keep a car up to standards. It used to be that you could keep your car "tuned" with new plugs, points, condenser and wires for under $75.00. And could keep this fine tuned every 4-6 months by checking timing etc. Now with all the electronic sensors, the common man can't do these things themselves any more. To take it to a shop is now several hundred dollars. So it doesn't get to the shop.....they just keep running it until it shuts down or they have to go in for their smog every two years. Unless it is blowing oil smoke bad it is still on the road.
Each year we have law makers continue to make new laws when there are already provisions in place, but perhaps uninforced. We should be REDUCING laws, not making new ones or defining the temperature parameters of a thermostat.
The restrictions that the Feds have placed on cars actually restrict their maintenance for those that can't financially afford to keep a car up to standards. It used to be that you could keep your car "tuned" with new plugs, points, condenser and wires for under $75.00. And could keep this fine tuned every 4-6 months by checking timing etc. Now with all the electronic sensors, the common man can't do these things themselves any more. To take it to a shop is now several hundred dollars. So it doesn't get to the shop.....they just keep running it until it shuts down or they have to go in for their smog every two years. Unless it is blowing oil smoke bad it is still on the road.
Each year we have law makers continue to make new laws when there are already provisions in place, but perhaps uninforced. We should be REDUCING laws, not making new ones or defining the temperature parameters of a thermostat.
Good point John. Thanks again for sending the CD of Corvette Magic. Had a great time there, wasn't hot like last year.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 2
From: Kathleen FL
That sure is a mouthful! Much more than most techies can handle... 
I bet some EPA lawmaker(s) had ADD and OCD when he/she/they composed this! I prefer to use a 280 degree t-stat for a happy medium of performance and efficiency. 195 is too hot and 160 is just too cool.
I bet some EPA lawmaker(s) had ADD and OCD when he/she/they composed this! I prefer to use a 280 degree t-stat for a happy medium of performance and efficiency. 195 is too hot and 160 is just too cool.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 3
From: Citrus Heights California
That sure is a mouthful! Much more than most techies can handle... I bet some EPA lawmaker(s) had ADD and OCD when he/she/they composed this! I prefer to use a 280 degree t-stat for a happy medium of performance and efficiency. 195 is too hot and 160 is just too cool.
I bet some EPA lawmaker(s) had ADD and OCD when he/she/they composed this! I prefer to use a 280 degree t-stat for a happy medium of performance and efficiency. 195 is too hot and 160 is just too cool.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
From: Yorkville IL
I see NOTHING in there specifying the thermostat must be a particular temperature.
The choice of operating temperature is left to the manufacturer.
All it says is that the computer needs to be aware if the engine warmed up.
As for this ongoing temperature debate... I've always believed that oil works better when it's hot within reason. Engine coolant temp has a lot to do with that. 160 is too cold. Between 180 and 210 is good for my vette. I start freaking if the Camaro gets to 190, but that I think is mostly an "old gearhead" thing.
Interestingly, race cars, such as nascar, run their engine VERY hot. They do this on purpose, it's a big juggling act between temperature and aerodynamic drag. They control the engine temp by controlling the amount of air allowed thru the radiator, with strips of tape over the grille. They peel off some tape if it gets too hot. Too hot is around 250 degrees!
They wouldn't do this if it was hurting their engines.
They wouldn't do this if the higher temps were costing them (more than the reduced drag was saving them) power.
The choice of operating temperature is left to the manufacturer.
All it says is that the computer needs to be aware if the engine warmed up.
As for this ongoing temperature debate... I've always believed that oil works better when it's hot within reason. Engine coolant temp has a lot to do with that. 160 is too cold. Between 180 and 210 is good for my vette. I start freaking if the Camaro gets to 190, but that I think is mostly an "old gearhead" thing.
Interestingly, race cars, such as nascar, run their engine VERY hot. They do this on purpose, it's a big juggling act between temperature and aerodynamic drag. They control the engine temp by controlling the amount of air allowed thru the radiator, with strips of tape over the grille. They peel off some tape if it gets too hot. Too hot is around 250 degrees!
They wouldn't do this if it was hurting their engines.
They wouldn't do this if the higher temps were costing them (more than the reduced drag was saving them) power.
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Drifting
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,581
Likes: 2
From: The Motor City
In my '89 L98, I run a 160deg high-flow t-stat with a couple of holes drilled in the t-stat plate to act as a failsafe in the event the t-stat fails in the closed position. I'm also running a Hypertech Thermomaster ECM chip which turns the main fan on at cooler temps (about 185~190deg). Oh, and I also run a 40:60 coolant-to-water mix along with Red Line Water Wetter.
I'm aware of the "benefits" of operating my engine at higher coolant temperatures, but when I was running the stock 190deg t-stat my car overheated and I cracked one of the cylinder heads. This cost me a lot of blood, sweat, and tears to fix my car and get it back on the road. I vowed to never again let my car overheat, and I haven't had an issue! The car runs like a champ on the highway and doesn't give me any issues in traffic.
Don't get me wrong - the car doesn't see use after October. If it did, I'd definitely run a 180deg high-flow t-stat (gets pretty cold here in the Great White North). But running the 160deg t-stat during the summer months hasn't proven to be a problem for me.
I'm aware of the "benefits" of operating my engine at higher coolant temperatures, but when I was running the stock 190deg t-stat my car overheated and I cracked one of the cylinder heads. This cost me a lot of blood, sweat, and tears to fix my car and get it back on the road. I vowed to never again let my car overheat, and I haven't had an issue! The car runs like a champ on the highway and doesn't give me any issues in traffic.
Don't get me wrong - the car doesn't see use after October. If it did, I'd definitely run a 180deg high-flow t-stat (gets pretty cold here in the Great White North). But running the 160deg t-stat during the summer months hasn't proven to be a problem for me.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
Likes: 33
From: The Top of Utah
Originally Posted by Kool88vette
There has been a debate going on about what is the proper operating temp. Some of us believe that our Vettes are made to run hot to control emissions. Others swear that a hot engine is a good thing and will last longer. I cant find any legitimate proof that a hot engine will last longer or perform better.
Originally Posted by Kool88vette
This was cut and pasted from an EPA website. It shows how the Feds mandated certain temperatures for certain vehicles in order to control emissions. Some of the experts on this forum are not aware of the regulations. I am posting this so we have accurate info not BS. GM cannot simply install any thermostat, it has to comply with fed regulations.
Originally Posted by Kool88vette
I always warm my engine up before I drive it.
Originally Posted by Kool88vette
I like to keep my engine between 175 to 210. My engine gets to 175 every time I drive it. The fan comes on at 175. With the AC on in hot weather, I have never been over 210. I have a 160 thermostat and a Dewitts radiator. It runs fine and never overheats.
RACE ON!!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,839
Likes: 22
From: San Diego, Ca
I went to the link and this is the Title:
Control of Air Pollution From New Motor Vehicles and New Motor
Vehicle Engines; Regulations Requiring Onboard Diagnostic Systems
on 2010 and Later Heavy-Duty Engines Used in Highway Applications
Over 14,000 Pounds; Revisions to Onboard Diagnostic Requirements
for Diesel Highway Heavy-Duty Vehicles Under 14,000 Pounds
What does this have to do with owning a C4???? Even if there is something else there, I've got a feeling it's all OB2 - so probably applies to the Toyota in your future, but not for anything before '96.
Control of Air Pollution From New Motor Vehicles and New Motor
Vehicle Engines; Regulations Requiring Onboard Diagnostic Systems
on 2010 and Later Heavy-Duty Engines Used in Highway Applications
Over 14,000 Pounds; Revisions to Onboard Diagnostic Requirements
for Diesel Highway Heavy-Duty Vehicles Under 14,000 Pounds
What does this have to do with owning a C4???? Even if there is something else there, I've got a feeling it's all OB2 - so probably applies to the Toyota in your future, but not for anything before '96.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
Likes: 25
From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Where do you get your electricity from? Do you run an extension cord to the Hoover dam?
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,961
Likes: 707
From: WI
That sounds right. I always warm my engine up before I drive it. I like to keep my engine between 175 to 210. My engine gets to 175 every time I drive it. The fan comes on at 175. With the AC on in hot weather, I have never been over 210. I have a 160 thermostat and a Dewitts radiator. It runs fine and never overheats. I make sure it's warmed up before it's smogged and it passes with flying colors. Too hot and you will be changing head gaskets.
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,961
Likes: 707
From: WI
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
Likes: 33
From: The Top of Utah
Originally Posted by Kool88vette
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
The proof has been presented to you. You just don't want to believe it. By the way, "hot" is a relative term. I do NOT advocate running an engine hot.
Please point out where, "It shows how the Feds mandated certain temperatures for certain vehicles in order to control emissions." Point out where it says that "GM cannot simply install any thermostat". I missed those points in what you have cut and pasted. "Some of the experts on this forum are not aware of the regulations.". Including those that post them. Let us have "accurate info not BS".
I just copied a few paragraph off that website. It's a few thousand pages long. It's documented, I'll look for it later and email it to you.
That wastes gasoline, adds pollutants to the air and adds wear and tear on the engine with out the engine being productive.
You are right about that.
With 175° as a minimum operating temperature, the 160° stat only slows the warm up time beyond 160°. It takes more considerably more time to boil off the condensates and acids that form in your crankcase, operating at those lower than recommended temperatures. Since your engine "gets to 175 every time" and you have the fan come on at 175°, the fan then, never shuts off, adding wear and tear on the fan motor and wasting gasoline to generate the power to run it. My fan does not run off gasoline, it's electrical. My fan runs most of the time. I would rather have that than high temps. A fan motor is about $50.00 and it is easy to change. How hard and expensive is changing head gaskets?
RACE ON!!!
Have a nice night. I'll get that info to you as soon as I can.
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
The proof has been presented to you. You just don't want to believe it. By the way, "hot" is a relative term. I do NOT advocate running an engine hot.
Please point out where, "It shows how the Feds mandated certain temperatures for certain vehicles in order to control emissions." Point out where it says that "GM cannot simply install any thermostat". I missed those points in what you have cut and pasted. "Some of the experts on this forum are not aware of the regulations.". Including those that post them. Let us have "accurate info not BS".
I just copied a few paragraph off that website. It's a few thousand pages long. It's documented, I'll look for it later and email it to you.
That wastes gasoline, adds pollutants to the air and adds wear and tear on the engine with out the engine being productive.
You are right about that.
With 175° as a minimum operating temperature, the 160° stat only slows the warm up time beyond 160°. It takes more considerably more time to boil off the condensates and acids that form in your crankcase, operating at those lower than recommended temperatures. Since your engine "gets to 175 every time" and you have the fan come on at 175°, the fan then, never shuts off, adding wear and tear on the fan motor and wasting gasoline to generate the power to run it. My fan does not run off gasoline, it's electrical. My fan runs most of the time. I would rather have that than high temps. A fan motor is about $50.00 and it is easy to change. How hard and expensive is changing head gaskets?
RACE ON!!!
Have a nice night. I'll get that info to you as soon as I can.
Your fan doesn't run off of gasoline? Do you have coal or gas fired generating plant under your hood? Contrary to self induced delusions, a $50.00 fan motor is not the only alternative to blown head gaskets. I have 165,000 miles on my 24 year old car, and neither have been replaced.
The more I read your posts, the more I realize that Forest Gump was right. And not just about a box of chocolates.
RACE ON!!!
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,641
Likes: 13
From: Slidell Louisiana
Why can't we all just get along
