Hey all,
I just recently had an Accel Super Ram put on my car. The car is an '85, but the engine is out of a later '80's vette. I think an '87. I also wanted to run the Accel Super Coil. The shop turned the Super Coil 90 degrees and supposedly timed it accordingly.

At first, everything seemed alright, but the car as I was going around the corner from the shop. My dad was following me, and he just figured that it was because the car was cold (this should've been a red flag, the car is EFI, it shouldn't do that!!!). Over the next two weeks the car ran poorly cold. It didn't have much power until it got warm, almost like one of the cylinders was missing. Once the car got warm it was okay. The car would also die after climbing hills or decelerating; for instance it died at a stoplight on top of a hill.

The next thing I noticed was that around 4200 RPM, warm, the car would lose power BIGTIME. (timing?) I don't think the car would be running out of breath because of the new intake, and the car didn't used to do it.

Finally, tonight, I was driving, and the car accelerated really slowly on the bottom end, then snapped and pulled way hard above about 3000 rpm.

Now, the car runs like a cynlinder is not firing. It does not pull like it should, and it has a resonance in the exhaust note consistant with a car that has a misfire. My plan is to get a pyrometer and see if any of the exhaust ports have a dramatically lower temperature, indicating a definate misfire on that cylinder.

At this point, however, I'm totally at the end of my rope. I just got ripped on the work that was done on the Super Ram because they didn't have a clue what they were doing so it took a lot of hours. Even at the discounted rate it cost more than it should've. Any input is much appreciated. Like I said I'm at the end of my rope, somebody please help me tie a knot so I can hang on. I need a smilie face with a .357 in its mouth...

 

Can you smell coolant? Does the resivoir stay at the same level? I had a very similar scenario to the one you describe and it turned out to be a pushed head-gasket. I know that's a way out there guess, but it's all I've got at the moment. Wish ya luck!

 

If you're ever around the way, I'll be happy to look at the car for you and see if we can determine what the problem is. I won't charge you a dime for anything. I'm not going to say that I know everything about these cars, but I do know a thing or two from wrenching on mine over the years. If I had experience installing a Super Ram, I would have installed your's for free.

Too many shops take advantage of people. A lot of places have never done work on these cars before. Taking it back to the shop might cause further dismay and cost.

Is the service engine light on while you're driving?

 

Do you have or know someone with a laptop and data logging software ??

 

What is the timing setting that is is "accordingly" for a "Super Coil" turned 90 degrees?



Shouldn't do WHAT?

Did your late engine in your '85 car still have the 9th injector? Does the Super Ram? Is the ECT sensor connected and working properly? Even though it isn't cold out,yet, a cold engine won't run well, cold, without a cold engine enrichment circuit. That alone could explain your poor cold performance.

You don't need a pyrometer. All you have to do is wet your fingers and quickly touch each of the header tubes to see which, if any, are colder than the others. Another way, is with a squirt bottle, if you are afraid of getting burned.

I don't know if the engine is up to it, at this point, but I think a full output, high demand, fuel pressure test may be revealing.

RACE ON!!!

 

Danziger -- Yes, we can smell coolang, and the resivoir does stay at about the same level. I'm hoping/thinking that's actually an intake gasket, but only time will tell, I just changed the oil, and I'll be looking at it for coolant shortly, as well as opening up my radiator to check for oil. (The general, knuckle head signs of a head gasket) Any more specific tests I should look at?

86Pacer -- I certainly appreciate the offer, but unfortunately, the car is stored in the San Francisco Bay Area, where I live and work three months out of the year. I'm not sure the car would be able to make it down to Santa Maria as is. As for the check engine light, it is not on. And I don't know what I'm going to do as far as taking it back to the shop. The guy that did the work there was employed on a 1099 and doesn't work there anymore.

Agent 86 -- I do have a laptop, but no data logging software. This sounds like a good tool, and I may look into it.

CFI EFI -- The timing is off by 90 degrees to compensate for the rotation of the distributor. When I say shouldn't do that, I meant that the car shouldn't just quit out of nowhere going around a corner. The car does have a 9th injector, and I'll look today to see if it was installed with the super ram, the super ram had space for it, so we'll see if its in there. I may try the water bottle technique as opposed to touching the exhaust manifold...I'm not gonna lie, I don't think I'd be able to touch the exhaust w/o a trip to the ER. How would I go about the full demand fuel pressure test...that would be on a dyno, correct?

 

I will take a chance and assume that you had to rotate the distributor to accomodate for the larger coil. If that is correct, all you have to do is rearrange the plug wires. The timing does not change.

It sounds scary, but it's the old school way before point and shoot IR thermometers. It won't hurt you
The cheap way is to attach a fuel pressure gauge and tape it to the windshield. Perform a full throttle acceleration and observe the pressure. If it drops way off, it is possible that the fuel pump cannot keep up with volume demand.

 

Initially you said, "The shop turned the Super Coil 90 degrees" and that they "supposedly timed it accordingly". Is the coil turned 90°? If so what is "timed it accordingly"? Or is it that "The timing is off by 90 degrees to compensate for the rotation of the distributor."? If the timing were off by 90°, it wouldn't run. Regardless of how the distributor is oriented in the car, the #1 plug has to fire pretty close to 6° BTDC with the EST disconnected.



The initial post didn't mention anything about quitting going around the corner. You just said, "but the car as I was going around the corner from the shop." and then, "the car is EFI, it shouldn't do that!!!".



You just lick a couple of your finger tips and lightly swipe them over the tube, especially before it gets fully warmed up. Like someone testing an iron to see if it hot enough to press clothes. To fully test the fuel pump, take it for a drive and watch the pressure as you bring the car to the highest fuel demand that you can, safely. The top of third gear would be better, but I have observed mine at over 6000 rpms at WOT in second gear, just before the 2-3 shift. If the pressure remains constant under the highest demand, the fuel system is performing up to snuff. If it starts to drop off, it is time to investigate why.

RACE ON!!!

 

Hmm, as far as the distributor thing goes, I don't think I'm explaining myself that well. The distributor was rotated a quarter turn counter clockwise, so the larger coil did not hit the Super Ram plenum. The car was then retimed to accomodate the shift.

Interestingly enough, the car ran fine today. I grabbed my mechanix gloves and burnt myself on every single maniforld pipe after the car had only been running a few minutes. Car pulled strong throughout the rpm range. I'm stumped...so for right now, I guess nothing's broken (just stuff that's gonna break), hopefully next time it acts up I can better document it. Thanks for everyone's help today!!