Accel Gen 7
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,713
Likes: 105
From: Manassas VA
Accel Gen 7
I was reading a link over on thirdgen.org and there was a post about using the Gen. 7 DFI with wide band control. If I understood correctly, it tunes itself, after you do the basic setup. Does anyone have any experience with it, and is it that simple?
Here is a link to the post I was referring to. http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/df...ii-i-must.html
And here is a link to what I believe would be the controller to use with the Gen 7 DFI http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
Here is a link to the post I was referring to. http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/df...ii-i-must.html
And here is a link to what I believe would be the controller to use with the Gen 7 DFI http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
Last edited by 93 ragtop; Sep 16, 2007 at 08:59 AM.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 406
Likes: 7
From: Ellicott City Md
I would look at another system. Most tuners that have used DFI in the past either no longer sell or recomend the GEN7. I know that the two shops I used at the start of the aftermarket computers (the first DFI dealers) now recomend Big Stuff 3 or XFI but lean to BS3. To answer the question the wideband will correct the A/F mixture from idle to WOT when using consistant fueling.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
From: Göteborg
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,713
Likes: 105
From: Manassas VA
Thanks for the response!! I had heard the Gen 7 was a good system. But again, I have no idea. The car came with it, so I would like to use it if possible.
Not trying to
but if I go into the basic setup, ie: cid, injector size, set for 1,2, or 3 bar map etc. The DFI with wide band would control fueling, timing, etc. and further tuning would not be needed?
The point you made. (To answer the question the wideband will correct the A/F mixture from idle to WOT when using consistant fueling) is what I dont fully understand. What I am getting at is this. I would want around 14.7 at cruise, idle etc, but richer when cold, and richer with full throttle, somewhere around 12.5 I think.
Also, please keep in mind this car has a turbo on it. So I would need timing limited under boost.
Not trying to
but if I go into the basic setup, ie: cid, injector size, set for 1,2, or 3 bar map etc. The DFI with wide band would control fueling, timing, etc. and further tuning would not be needed? The point you made. (To answer the question the wideband will correct the A/F mixture from idle to WOT when using consistant fueling) is what I dont fully understand. What I am getting at is this. I would want around 14.7 at cruise, idle etc, but richer when cold, and richer with full throttle, somewhere around 12.5 I think.
Also, please keep in mind this car has a turbo on it. So I would need timing limited under boost.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,525
Likes: 2
From: Houston TX
The DFI G7 will do all of this and more.
It will correct based on desired A/F to the limits that are created in the tune. This is not to be confused with "the car will tune itself". It will correct small amounts, but you still have to set desired A/F, VEs, etc. Basically with the wbO2, it checks the actual A/F vs the desired A/F and will make small corrections (up to the limit that you deem allowable). Start playing in the various G7 screens, and you will start to learn how to tune. I agree with the above statement that the BS3 and the XFI are certainly more desireable, but it does not mean that the G7 will not handle what you are trying to do. I have installed all of these different systems, and though I wish I was running BS3 on one of my cars, I still have two of the older FAST systems.
There is vast knowledge on these boards that are willing to help, but for the most part, you are going to have to "dive in".
Aaron
It will correct based on desired A/F to the limits that are created in the tune. This is not to be confused with "the car will tune itself". It will correct small amounts, but you still have to set desired A/F, VEs, etc. Basically with the wbO2, it checks the actual A/F vs the desired A/F and will make small corrections (up to the limit that you deem allowable). Start playing in the various G7 screens, and you will start to learn how to tune. I agree with the above statement that the BS3 and the XFI are certainly more desireable, but it does not mean that the G7 will not handle what you are trying to do. I have installed all of these different systems, and though I wish I was running BS3 on one of my cars, I still have two of the older FAST systems.
There is vast knowledge on these boards that are willing to help, but for the most part, you are going to have to "dive in".
Aaron
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,293
Likes: 79
From: Jackson MI
I'm also running a Gen 7. For WOT it will do some correction if you are close with the base tune. DO NOT expect it to do fuel correction on partial throttle. At partial throttle the MAP areas change so quickly that by the time it corrects for a rich part of the MAP table you have already transitioned into a lean part of the MAP table and can cause some bad results and very peaky a/f ratios on the datalogs.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,713
Likes: 105
From: Manassas VA
You know, I normally do all my own car work. I have changed cams, heads, pulled transmissions, diffs. etc on my other vette. But the tuning is something I have never done. I have always paid others to do it.
It seems that the level that most talk about such as VE's are things I do not understand and there seems to be no books to read on learning the basics that I have found. There is a book available on the Gen 6 but not 7. Are mail order tunes a option with the Gen 7? I know it wont be perfect, but I would like to get the car driveable to make sure there are no other bugs in it before taking it to a dyno shop. It seems the closest are at least 4 hrs away.
And thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions.
It seems that the level that most talk about such as VE's are things I do not understand and there seems to be no books to read on learning the basics that I have found. There is a book available on the Gen 6 but not 7. Are mail order tunes a option with the Gen 7? I know it wont be perfect, but I would like to get the car driveable to make sure there are no other bugs in it before taking it to a dyno shop. It seems the closest are at least 4 hrs away.
And thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions.
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Drifting
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,637
Likes: 2
From: Honeoye Ny
tunign forums are the bestplace to learn what does what. Unfortunatly there is also alot of false nfo as well. I belive there is a book out there that is real good @ explaining the basics. I have heard others recommend it, but cant for the life of me remeber the title.
Same publisher as MAXIMUM BOOST by corky bell. I do rememer that.
I will help you as far as I can. I beleive you need the Dongle bruce gave you to open up the GEn 7 software. I think I still have it installed on my PC. If i can view a tune without it I should be able to write something that at least be able to at least get it driving.
Have you fixed the tranny /clutch slave yet?
Same publisher as MAXIMUM BOOST by corky bell. I do rememer that.
I will help you as far as I can. I beleive you need the Dongle bruce gave you to open up the GEn 7 software. I think I still have it installed on my PC. If i can view a tune without it I should be able to write something that at least be able to at least get it driving.
Have you fixed the tranny /clutch slave yet?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 2,535
Likes: 2
From: Rochester NY
tunign forums are the bestplace to learn what does what. Unfortunatly there is also alot of false nfo as well. I belive there is a book out there that is real good @ explaining the basics. I have heard others recommend it, but cant for the life of me remeber the title.
Same publisher as MAXIMUM BOOST by corky bell. I do rememer that.
I will help you as far as I can. I beleive you need the Dongle bruce gave you to open up the GEn 7 software. I think I still have it installed on my PC. If i can view a tune without it I should be able to write something that at least be able to at least get it driving.
Have you fixed the tranny /clutch slave yet?
Same publisher as MAXIMUM BOOST by corky bell. I do rememer that.
I will help you as far as I can. I beleive you need the Dongle bruce gave you to open up the GEn 7 software. I think I still have it installed on my PC. If i can view a tune without it I should be able to write something that at least be able to at least get it driving.
Have you fixed the tranny /clutch slave yet?
Rich should have CD software G7 and USB key already. He can install the software hook up to a laptop with serial port. The best laptop is the Dell D600 and they are cheap. I picked one up on ebay for 255-300$
My other newer laptop have no serial port. I have try a few USB to serial port adapter but no luck. I suggest using D600 laptop can be had for cheap.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,713
Likes: 105
From: Manassas VA
[QUOTE=Baldturbofreak;1561969677]
Same publisher as MAXIMUM BOOST by corky bell. I do rememer that.
I have tried to find a book by Corky, but so far, I have found a book about supercharging and the one that Bruce gave me called Maximum Boost. (turbochargers) Also, I have a book by Charles O. Probst. titled corvette fuel injection. To be honest, neither seem to get into the actual programming of a system or what effects the changes have.
I will help you as far as I can. I beleive you need the Dongle bruce gave you to open up the GEn 7 software. I think I still have it installed on my PC. If i can view a tune without it I should be able to write something that at least be able to at least get it driving.
The car will start with the existing program, but it tries to die when hitting the accelerator. Any help you can give me with tuning is appreciated!!
Have you fixed the tranny /clutch slave yet?[/QUOTE]
No, I ordered a new slave cylinder, but have not installed it yet. I think I fixed the oil leak on the left side of the motor. The oil tempature sensor was leaking. For now, I took it out and installed a 1/4 in plug to stop the leak. Also, the connector was melted on it. I purchased a new connector but have not installed it yet. I have a oil leak on the oil pan where the return line goes in. I need to fix that and remove the wrap on the exhaust, at least for now, to make sure all oil leaks are fixed. I dont want no fires!!
Same publisher as MAXIMUM BOOST by corky bell. I do rememer that.
I have tried to find a book by Corky, but so far, I have found a book about supercharging and the one that Bruce gave me called Maximum Boost. (turbochargers) Also, I have a book by Charles O. Probst. titled corvette fuel injection. To be honest, neither seem to get into the actual programming of a system or what effects the changes have.
I will help you as far as I can. I beleive you need the Dongle bruce gave you to open up the GEn 7 software. I think I still have it installed on my PC. If i can view a tune without it I should be able to write something that at least be able to at least get it driving.
The car will start with the existing program, but it tries to die when hitting the accelerator. Any help you can give me with tuning is appreciated!!
Have you fixed the tranny /clutch slave yet?[/QUOTE]
No, I ordered a new slave cylinder, but have not installed it yet. I think I fixed the oil leak on the left side of the motor. The oil tempature sensor was leaking. For now, I took it out and installed a 1/4 in plug to stop the leak. Also, the connector was melted on it. I purchased a new connector but have not installed it yet. I have a oil leak on the oil pan where the return line goes in. I need to fix that and remove the wrap on the exhaust, at least for now, to make sure all oil leaks are fixed. I dont want no fires!!
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,713
Likes: 105
From: Manassas VA
Rich should have CD software G7 and USB key already. He can install the software hook up to a laptop with serial port. The best laptop is the Dell D600 and they are cheap. I picked one up on ebay for 255-300$
My other newer laptop have no serial port. I have try a few USB to serial port adapter but no luck. I suggest using D600 laptop can be had for cheap.
My other newer laptop have no serial port. I have try a few USB to serial port adapter but no luck. I suggest using D600 laptop can be had for cheap.
Bruce, I have the usb key, but the software I downloaded from the internet. (no CD) I am using a older tosheba, windows 98 laptop. I could download one of the older versions of gen. 7 software , but when I tried the latest version, it said my computer was not capable of running it.
By the way, I purchased a 3 bar map, but I have not checked into the injectors yet. I am hopefully getting there!!
Also, I have a throttle cable made for a 95 z-28 to bypass the asr box, but it has not been installed yet either.
Last edited by 93 ragtop; Sep 22, 2007 at 08:19 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
From: Cleveland OH
If you're interested in having someone tune this car for you, drop me a PM and I can put you in touch with someone who was an employee of both FAST and Accel. He'll definitely be able to set you straight if you need lots of help with the tune. He did a great job on my FAST tune just a few weeks ago.
Ron
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,596
Likes: 19
From: Portland Oregon
I was reading a link over on thirdgen.org and there was a post about using the Gen. 7 DFI with wide band control. If I understood correctly, it tunes itself, after you do the basic setup. Does anyone have any experience with it, and is it that simple?
Here is a link to the post I was referring to. http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/df...ii-i-must.html
And here is a link to what I believe would be the controller to use with the Gen 7 DFI http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
Here is a link to the post I was referring to. http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/df...ii-i-must.html
And here is a link to what I believe would be the controller to use with the Gen 7 DFI http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
There is a "auto Cal" button when you are tuning the system that allows it to correct the particular cell that you are working in. So when on the dyno and you are mapping the VE tables, you can click on the auto cal button in several cells to get the VE numbers corrected. Once you get several cells corrected you can get an average of how much to correct the remaining cells. Mail order tunes are possible from your vendor or from other members that has tuned their cars using the DFI system.
As for other dealers that may have dumped DFI, I haven't personally heard of many that have. I sell both FAST and DFI, I would sell BS3 but they want a HUGE buy in. I also handle the GM Delphi MEFI systems, and of course stock GM systems as well. It is all a matter of customer selection and what the application is. The DFI system is more than capable of handling a TPI or LT1 engine.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,637
Likes: 2
From: Honeoye Ny
HOW TO TUNE AND MODIFY ENGINE MANAGMENT SYSTEMS by Jeff Hartman.
www.motorbooks.com
Thats the book I was talking about Rich, it's packed with alot of good info that will help you understand your (and to an extent,all) engine managment.
www.motorbooks.com
Thats the book I was talking about Rich, it's packed with alot of good info that will help you understand your (and to an extent,all) engine managment.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,713
Likes: 105
From: Manassas VA
Hey Rick,
I went to Carlsile Pa yesterday for the fall show. I found a vender with the book and I picked it up. Just glanced at it, but it does look like a good book for me to read.
Thanks for the suggestion, and hopefully by spring, it will be running!!
I went to Carlsile Pa yesterday for the fall show. I found a vender with the book and I picked it up. Just glanced at it, but it does look like a good book for me to read.
Thanks for the suggestion, and hopefully by spring, it will be running!!
