Going to coilovers with Penske shocks
07-26-2008, 05:21 PM
#181
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In case your wondering how I'm going to get all this power to the groud.
I just got back from Tom's (astock165 ) place, picked up my rear suspension links with spherical rod ends
Nice
All top quality stuff. It's nice when an engineer works on this stuff.
the for sale thread:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1566463543
Here's a review from 'another forum':
OK then
http://www.corvette-guru.com/modules...mode=0&start=0
I just got back from Tom's (astock165 ) place, picked up my rear suspension links with spherical rod ends
Nice
All top quality stuff. It's nice when an engineer works on this stuff.
the for sale thread:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1566463543
I have these same kits on my 93 coupe and have been very happy with the results. The rear end stays planted much better than when I had the stock aluminum links and poly bushings. I have had great results at both autocross and at the track.
I developed this kit with Gary from Hardbar and although there are other kits on the market we both feel this kit is superior in many ways. The bodies are knurled for easy grip and adjustment, even when on the car. The ends of the links are slotted like a collet and use Omega style clamps to lock the rod ends in place and eliminates the jam nuts, which can come loose. All you need to fully tighten the rod ends in place is a 1/4" 12 point socket. No need for 2 large wrenches to go in tight spaces like with jam nuts.
I have sold five kits so far and have gotten some great feedback from the buyers. I have more parts on order and will be able to ship in about a week.
The kits are as follows:
Red anodized aluminum turnbuckle links with steel bodied, Teflon lined spherical rod ends. All components are American made.
Nuts & bolts are all Grade 8 hardware.
All necessary spacers and washers are provided.
Trailing Arm Kit: $350 + $20 S&H
Camber Rod Kit: $225 + $10 S&H
If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to ask. You can PM me through the forum or use my email below.
The easiest method of payment right now is PayPal, but I will discuss other methods if you prefer.
I developed this kit with Gary from Hardbar and although there are other kits on the market we both feel this kit is superior in many ways. The bodies are knurled for easy grip and adjustment, even when on the car. The ends of the links are slotted like a collet and use Omega style clamps to lock the rod ends in place and eliminates the jam nuts, which can come loose. All you need to fully tighten the rod ends in place is a 1/4" 12 point socket. No need for 2 large wrenches to go in tight spaces like with jam nuts.
I have sold five kits so far and have gotten some great feedback from the buyers. I have more parts on order and will be able to ship in about a week.
The kits are as follows:
Red anodized aluminum turnbuckle links with steel bodied, Teflon lined spherical rod ends. All components are American made.
Nuts & bolts are all Grade 8 hardware.
All necessary spacers and washers are provided.
Trailing Arm Kit: $350 + $20 S&H
Camber Rod Kit: $225 + $10 S&H
If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to ask. You can PM me through the forum or use my email below.
The easiest method of payment right now is PayPal, but I will discuss other methods if you prefer.
OK then
http://www.corvette-guru.com/modules...mode=0&start=0
CentralCoaster wrote:
Finally got everyone off my back and got some time to install these.
Car feels great. It really freed up the rear suspension. The car actually dropped a bit due to less binding, yet I did not adjust the ride height at all. I scraped my exhaust for the first time after backing out of my steep driveway. (Car is lowered.) I can articulate the rear knuckle easily by hand when the car is on jackstands.
Going over speed bumps, I hear the front end squeak and bounch with the poly bushings. Rear end is quiet as a mouse and transmits less to the chassis.
Took it in the twisties, but improvements there are going to be impossible to quantify without lap times.
I don't know when my next track day is, but I'll have to repeat a track that I've been to recently and compare. May not be until a few months from now when it cools off.
.....
Everyone (without these installed) seems to think they'll ride very rough.
If anything, I found the opposite to be true. Now my car has never rode very smooth, but with the new Bilsteins and these installed, it's as good as ever. I had poly bushings on prior to this, and petrified stock rubber bushings on before that.
I'm not convinced how spherical rod ends can hurt ride quality, when you can easily articulate the suspension by hand, that means the suspension can react quickly to an uneven road surface. The stock pieces in their bound up state are very stiff and hard to move, and so they would transfer more energy directly to the frame, not allowing the suspension to soak it up.
I'll get pics this evening.
Posted on: 7/18 14:06
Finally got everyone off my back and got some time to install these.
Car feels great. It really freed up the rear suspension. The car actually dropped a bit due to less binding, yet I did not adjust the ride height at all. I scraped my exhaust for the first time after backing out of my steep driveway. (Car is lowered.) I can articulate the rear knuckle easily by hand when the car is on jackstands.
Going over speed bumps, I hear the front end squeak and bounch with the poly bushings. Rear end is quiet as a mouse and transmits less to the chassis.
Took it in the twisties, but improvements there are going to be impossible to quantify without lap times.
I don't know when my next track day is, but I'll have to repeat a track that I've been to recently and compare. May not be until a few months from now when it cools off.
.....
Everyone (without these installed) seems to think they'll ride very rough.
If anything, I found the opposite to be true. Now my car has never rode very smooth, but with the new Bilsteins and these installed, it's as good as ever. I had poly bushings on prior to this, and petrified stock rubber bushings on before that.
I'm not convinced how spherical rod ends can hurt ride quality, when you can easily articulate the suspension by hand, that means the suspension can react quickly to an uneven road surface. The stock pieces in their bound up state are very stiff and hard to move, and so they would transfer more energy directly to the frame, not allowing the suspension to soak it up.
I'll get pics this evening.
Posted on: 7/18 14:06
BrianCunningham wrote:
Yes, but with the stock C4's it's even worse since it's not a ball joint, but just a rubber bushed cylindrical hole, that really should just be used for 2d movements.
Here's a recent pic of my stock suspension, you can see the old stock rubber bushings binding up so much that they are being forced out.
Next time you have your wheels off, or it's up on a lift, check it out.
Poly bushings would actually make it worse since they take away compliance in the the off axis direction.
Yes, but with the stock C4's it's even worse since it's not a ball joint, but just a rubber bushed cylindrical hole, that really should just be used for 2d movements.
Here's a recent pic of my stock suspension, you can see the old stock rubber bushings binding up so much that they are being forced out.
Next time you have your wheels off, or it's up on a lift, check it out.
Poly bushings would actually make it worse since they take away compliance in the the off axis direction.
08-20-2008, 02:26 PM
#183
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I've both seen and held them
He needed to make some revisions so they fit both the early and the late cars.
The 2nd prototypes should be done soon.
He needed to make some revisions so they fit both the early and the late cars.
The 2nd prototypes should be done soon.
08-29-2008, 10:36 PM
#184
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any more news on these puppies?
i'm dying to see the finished go on the coilover conversion brackets. just looking at the engineering analysis on bending got me going...and after a moment to myself, my autocross fantasy returned... bill
08-30-2008, 01:42 PM
#185
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I understand that the stud has worked sufficiently for many people for quite some time, but I too agree that the stud mount can be improved.
here is a pic of what I have seen another guy do with the Corvette rear suspension mounted on another drag car.
Last edited by LD85; 08-30-2008 at 01:46 PM. Reason: spelling
08-30-2008, 08:10 PM
#186
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Sorry to hear you couldn't wait.
He's comming up with a design that fits both the early cars and the later ones.
He's at the end of summer track events.
I just help him take his truck & trailer down to NJ Motorsports park, stopping at East Coast Supercharging along the way.
Interesting drag car BTW, much shorter camber links.
He's comming up with a design that fits both the early cars and the later ones.
He's at the end of summer track events.
I just help him take his truck & trailer down to NJ Motorsports park, stopping at East Coast Supercharging along the way.
Interesting drag car BTW, much shorter camber links.
09-01-2008, 01:13 PM
#187
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This is what's had Gary sidelined
Gary and I have been working together for the past month and a half on a custom design hardbar for the Mosler. The cockpit is very small and tight so the dimensions/design of the pieces had to be absolutely perfect. As you can see they came out great. The Teamtech harnesses are on the way, and the seats are Cobra Suzuka Technology (carbon fiber and Alcantara, which ended up matching the existing interior perfectly). Great job by Gary on the DESIGN, his SolidWorks modeling and the custom machining (and not bad on my part for gathering all the critical dimensions if I say so myself). The end result took several iterations with measurement verifications and dimension changes, and without Gary's design and modeling it would have been a difficult proposition. As Gary likes to say - you don't want to kludge something together on a project of this scope.
09-09-2008, 03:15 PM
#188
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I wana go to 8 inch spring ,to lower the my ride height. ( now i use Bilestien with 10" spring for rear).
question is , what is better coil to use for my 90 corvette rear setup?
I will buy from Strange E. coil-over shocks.
they have to shocks fr 8 inch spring:
extended Lengh with 12.84 "
the other with 11.36 " .
So which one do you recommend me guys?
question is , what is better coil to use for my 90 corvette rear setup?
I will buy from Strange E. coil-over shocks.
they have to shocks fr 8 inch spring:
extended Lengh with 12.84 "
the other with 11.36 " .
So which one do you recommend me guys?
09-09-2008, 04:11 PM
#189
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If you contact Gary, he might be able to answer your question.
As far as me...
Well it really sounds like I need double adjustables in order to do what I need
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=2127427
http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/311295.aspx
That's going to run me $900 per corner.
With it being so late in the season, I'm putting it off until spring, when I'll do a complete suspension rebuild.
As far as me...
Well it really sounds like I need double adjustables in order to do what I need
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=2127427
http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/311295.aspx
That's going to run me $900 per corner.
With it being so late in the season, I'm putting it off until spring, when I'll do a complete suspension rebuild.
Last edited by BrianCunningham; 09-09-2008 at 04:22 PM.
10-15-2008, 06:02 PM
#190
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OK, they are done and will fit QA1 etc shocks with wide lower bushings. They will be sold through VanSteel and MSI in Roseville, CA.
Note the shoulder bolts with the Nordlocks, so no threads in shear.
Note the shoulder bolts with the Nordlocks, so no threads in shear.
10-16-2008, 02:51 AM
#191
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Hi Gary
Nice work on the shock mounts!
Were you able to sort out a spring / shock combo for a late C4? With these mounts done, I'm guessing you just need to finalize spring rates and valving?
I'm still very interested in the complete setup with dual springs and the 7500 shocks.
Nice work on the shock mounts!
Were you able to sort out a spring / shock combo for a late C4? With these mounts done, I'm guessing you just need to finalize spring rates and valving?
I'm still very interested in the complete setup with dual springs and the 7500 shocks.
10-16-2008, 05:38 AM
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Hi Gary,
nice work, but what I don't understand is the following:
You eliminate the bending moment that goes from the shock to the "bolt" by using a double shear design there, but the bending moment that goes to the upright is still a single shear design. You just transfer one "weak" point to another "weak" point, thus make it even "weaker". I'm sure the steel (whatever material it is) bolt of the original design and the high strength steel cone design of the coilover I bought (pictured former in the thread) can take more load or bending moment, than the mounting point (forged aluminium?) on the upright! And even in the case, that the load exceeds the limit on one of these points, I'm sure the steel bolt/cone will bend less than the aluminium upright, that even will break!? Therefore the configuration that I use has a reinforcement bracket behind the lower upright, that spreeds the load to the beefier part of the upright. Just a thought...
Regards
Rico
nice work, but what I don't understand is the following:
You eliminate the bending moment that goes from the shock to the "bolt" by using a double shear design there, but the bending moment that goes to the upright is still a single shear design. You just transfer one "weak" point to another "weak" point, thus make it even "weaker". I'm sure the steel (whatever material it is) bolt of the original design and the high strength steel cone design of the coilover I bought (pictured former in the thread) can take more load or bending moment, than the mounting point (forged aluminium?) on the upright! And even in the case, that the load exceeds the limit on one of these points, I'm sure the steel bolt/cone will bend less than the aluminium upright, that even will break!? Therefore the configuration that I use has a reinforcement bracket behind the lower upright, that spreeds the load to the beefier part of the upright. Just a thought...
Regards
Rico
10-17-2008, 01:45 PM
#193
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Gary and Astock are working together on this.
As soon as they have the bugs worked out, I'll be installing them on mine.
As soon as they have the bugs worked out, I'll be installing them on mine.
05-28-2009, 09:54 AM
#197
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Thought I'd resurect this thread.
I'm buying some Penske double adjustables off another forum member.
I know their good shocks as they used to be on Gary's (Hardbar) car.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...post1570239963
I'm buying some Penske double adjustables off another forum member.
I know their good shocks as they used to be on Gary's (Hardbar) car.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...post1570239963
For sale are a car set of HardbarUSA/LEMD Penske 8100 double adjustable shocks. I bought these shocks from Gary Hoffman @ HardbarUSA directly off his C6Z. They are suitable for all C5 and C6 applications. I am asking $2500 (plus shipping) for the entire set up.
They have recently been back to HardbarUSA/LEMD for a checkup on the dyno and to have a couple of seals replaced (preventive maintenance).
Pic of complete set up:
Pic of the rears, note the Mallett upper plate:
Pic of the fronts:
Pic of rear bump & rebound adjusters:
Pic of front rebound adjusters:
These are a steal at this price. 39% off what the new equivalent (Penske 8300s) would cost you! This package works great, street or track. If you've been on this forum any length of time you've seen numerous people rave about them!
They have recently been back to HardbarUSA/LEMD for a checkup on the dyno and to have a couple of seals replaced (preventive maintenance).
Pic of complete set up:
Pic of the rears, note the Mallett upper plate:
Pic of the fronts:
Pic of rear bump & rebound adjusters:
Pic of front rebound adjusters:
These are a steal at this price. 39% off what the new equivalent (Penske 8300s) would cost you! This package works great, street or track. If you've been on this forum any length of time you've seen numerous people rave about them!
05-28-2009, 10:40 AM
#198
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2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2022 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11
Brian I cant wait to see your car when its finished!! This thing is going to be sick! 
05-28-2009, 10:54 AM
#199
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Hi Brian,
Very nice!
Curious what Gary's comments on spring rates were -- will you have to replace them? I know the geometry, particularly on the rear is significantly different between the C5/6 and C4 which would make me think that spring rate requirements and possibly valving would be different.
I'm eyeing the other set that's for sale over there, but was a bit worried about having to buy a new set of springs too.
Very nice!
Curious what Gary's comments on spring rates were -- will you have to replace them? I know the geometry, particularly on the rear is significantly different between the C5/6 and C4 which would make me think that spring rate requirements and possibly valving would be different.
I'm eyeing the other set that's for sale over there, but was a bit worried about having to buy a new set of springs too.
05-28-2009, 12:14 PM
#200
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They're closer than you would think.
We're going to keep the spring rates that are on it for now and see how they work out.
The nice thing about coilovers is that they're easy to change out.
We're going to keep the spring rates that are on it for now and see how they work out.
The nice thing about coilovers is that they're easy to change out.
